Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: cantshoot on August 09, 2016, 10:37:07 pm
-
Had a go at making bamboo arrows using the "home depot" style guide that's pinned.
Worked pretty well. Used 48" plant stakes and they seem to produce arrows spined about right (but what do I know) for my bow, at least they are similar (a little stiffer) than my FG arrows I got when I started out. And weight came in around 23g (350 grains) so it seems okay for my 30 pound bow :)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cpdsao1WgAAMyxC.jpg)
The straightening and sanding worked out pretty good, the arrows are smooth and feel good in the hand. For the points I turned them in a power drill out of some birch wood I collected during ice storm season. They stood up to some shots too so they are durable enough to last a little bit I hope
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cpdsao3WgAEsTZE.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cpdsao7WcAADGM6.jpg)
Found some turkey feathers on the sale rack at a local archery shop, so I had a go at fletching. The cock feather ended up not quite in the right orientation... whoops. We'll find out how important that is I guess. I have a username to live up to after all. ::)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cpdsao2WYAAI5Yl.jpg)
-
nice job! I think I'm a bit too perfectionist about straightening and thus don't know when to stop and always get frustrated
that point looks good
-
Thanks loon. The smell of toasting bamboo was nice... But I quit while I was ahead and said good enough... After breaking two other shafts trying to straighten them. When it reaches the right temperature and bends it is a cool feeling, but a couple of times it must have got too soft and the whole thing buckled when I bent it.
Nice stuff to work with though, and pretty attractive
-
Cane makes great arrows. Looks like you did a good job. I would suggest that you add a wrap behind the head even though the point has a shelf. Cane splits pretty easily and it wouldn't take much to ruin your arrow.
-
I broke many arrows trying to straighten because I was heating them way too much with my heatgun... I think 200-250C (480F) is already plenty. Maybe 200C is around the max..
I don't know how others straighten them while leaving char marks... with a heat gun.. maybe they heat them at high settings for short periods? 3 seconds or something?
Would small kinks or "snake" sort of near the nock or near the point make an inaccurate arrow?
-
Thanks for the advice! I think the additional wrap is a good idea even though it will make it stick in the target harder.
The scorch marks actually look okay... Maybe in the future I will try staining or painting the shafts...
-
Loon, what I've always been told is that if the nock end and the point line up and it spins true then wobble in the middle is not such a big deal.
-
Thanks for the advice! I think the additional wrap is a good idea even though it will make it stick in the target harder.
The scorch marks actually look okay... Maybe in the future I will try staining or painting the shafts...
If you file a shallow groove with a 1/8" round file right behind the tip and put the wrapping in the groove they will come out of the target easier. I used kevlar fly tieing thread and only needed 10 wraps or so. After you wrap it, soak it in CA.
-
Nice job can'tshoot. If you have access to a grinder or even a file you could make point from a double headed nail. It would help you get some wieght forward and probably shoot better I'm guessing. Keep at it and you'll learn so much you'll have to change name to canshoot
Bjrogg
-
Urufu is right. If the point and nock line up and the arrow spins true on the point it should fly just fine. One of the Arrow Trade arrows I'm making will be a crooked sourwood arrow. I spin all arrows on my finger tip to be sure there is no wobble.
I would not hunt with a "crooked" arrow because the crooks could impede penetration but it is fun to walk up to the practice line at a trad shoot and watch the glass bow guy's jaws drop when you hit the bulls eye with one.
-
Urufu is right. If the point and nock line up and the arrow spins true on the point it should fly just fine. One of the Arrow Trade arrows I'm making will be a crooked sourwood arrow. I spin all arrows on my finger tip to be sure there is no wobble.
I would not hunt with a "crooked" arrow because the crooks could impede penetration but it is fun to walk up to the practice line at a trad shoot and watch the glass bow guy's jaws drop when you hit the bulls eye with one.
Spins true when spinned from where...? When spun from the balance point on the thumb/index nails? Though putting on a point would change the balance point.. They always seem to wobble a bit.. how do you spin them, just rotate them or give them torque? Or do you rotate at the nock with one hand while the point is on the other hand's fingertip?
Thanks!
-
Urufu is right. If the point and nock line up and the arrow spins true on the point it should fly just fine. One of the Arrow Trade arrows I'm making will be a crooked sourwood arrow. I spin all arrows on my finger tip to be sure there is no wobble.
I would not hunt with a "crooked" arrow because the crooks could impede penetration but it is fun to walk up to the practice line at a trad shoot and watch the glass bow guy's jaws drop when you hit the bulls eye with one.
Spins true when spinned from where...? When spun from the balance point on the thumb/index nails? Though putting on a point would change the balance point.. They always seem to wobble a bit.. how do you spin them, just rotate them or give them torque? Or do you rotate at the nock with one hand while the point is on the other hand's fingertip?
Thanks!
You have to balance a dinner plate on the top for best effect.
-
I put the point on my finger with the arrow vertical and spin it like a top. If you feel a wiggle it needs more work. Even with a crook or two in the middle, if the point and nock line up it should spin true and when it does it will fly true.
-
I'm a little confused about this too. "If the point and the nock line up", two points will always line up. Maybe just a little more info. Thanks
-
I put the point on my finger with the arrow vertical and spin it like a top. If you feel a wiggle it needs more work. Even with a crook or two in the middle, if the point and nock line up it should spin true and when it does it will fly true.
So the spin test is fine... The arrow spins until it stops without falling off
-
I don't think I could make one of my carbon arrows spin like a top... much less on my finger. Unless you don't let go, in which case it does makes sense. You would spin from the nock end and make the point touch the finger?
I'm a little confused about this too. "If the point and the nock line up", two points will always line up. Maybe just a little more info. Thanks
same
I guess it'd be some weird thing about it not wobbling on the finger if spun... like that. maybe i'll make a video and ask if it's like that
I put the point on my finger with the arrow vertical and spin it like a top. If you feel a wiggle it needs more work. Even with a crook or two in the middle, if the point and nock line up it should spin true and when it does it will fly true.
So the spin test is fine... The arrow spins until it stops without falling off
wow. how..
-
Going as though to balance the arrow on your finger regularly... Then twist the nock between your fingers so it spins. Turns around maybe three or four times and then you are back to balancing it... Not sure how relevant it is though.
-
The arrow spins for a second or 2 and if I feel a wobble I look for the source of the wobble and correct it. It's not hard to spin an arrow on your finger tip. Even a cave man can do it. I've always spun arrows to see if they are true, even in my compound days. Even then with aluminum arrows or to be sure the point insert was installed true.
In one of the first few issues of Primitive Archer there was a series called "Arrows: 101" I think. It discusses making simple primitive arrows from natural materials and how crooked arrows work and how to set a crooked shaft up so it will shoot off a bow.
Consider the plane of an arrow. If the nock and the point line up perfectly along that plane the center section of the arrow can have a crook up, down, left or right and as long as that crook comes back inline with the plane of the arrow it should fly well. You still have to consider spine.
-
Do you guys mean if the point and nock line up while the arrow spins on the point?
-
DOH! wow. Thanks, I get it, and I can actually spin it...
I guess it's something like, if you draw a line between nock and point and the mass of the shaft is equal on both halves of the shaft ("cut" across that straight line) then the nock and point are "in line" and the shaft will spin true? ie an S shape would be better than an U shape
This makes me so relieved... now I won't have to spend hours trying to get a single shaft to perfect!
-
DOH! wow. Thanks, I get it, and I can actually spin it...
I guess it's something like, if you draw a line between nock and point and the mass of the shaft is equal on both halves of the shaft ("cut" across that straight line) then the nock and point are "in line" and the shaft will spin true? ie an S shape would be better than an U shape
This makes me so relieved... now I won't have to spend hours trying to get a single shaft to perfect!
I think it's more like, if the nock is out of line the torque from spinning it will cause it to jump.
-
I'm making a crooked arrow for the arrow trade. When I'm done I'll post a pic.
-
Build-a-long Pat B!!!!!
-
I'm already at the point mounting stage now. I "straightened" the crooked arrow yesterday.
-
So think of it kinda like a snakey bow, the limbs can snake back and forth all they want as long as the tips line up and your string is centered on the handle. So draw an imaginary line from the point to the nock, lets use the arrow in a vertical position for this image, now even if the nock is straight up and down if it is off to the side it will not spin true and you'll have issues, or even if it is centered but at a slight angle off to the left or right you'll have issues, but if the tip and the nock fall right on that imaginary line the middle bit can be wonky/crooked, and you're right about the mass being more or less balanced because you can't get away with TOO much or it won't be balanced/spin true, but within reason it doesn't have to be a perfect carbon straight arrow to be a great arrow.
-
so besides the mass thing, also need the nock and point angle/orientation to be the same?
If the vertical spin test is all that's needed, I guess that's all I need to know :p
-
Engineering school was years ago... But what my gut is telling me right now is that it's a combination of the two... Natural tendency is to rotate about the center of mass. If that's in line between tip and nock , great. If not, the centripetal force will not be balanced and result in a larger vibration the farther the com is from the axis of rotation?
Something like that. Anyway thanks for the interesting conversation guys :)
-
If you look at a crank shaft in a car it spins at much higher RPM than arrow and is much more "crooked" than any arrow but the ends are true and everything else has the right amount of wieght in the proper places to balance it out. Even a round tire on a round rim will shake if it's not properly balanced. I suspect you could make a perfectly straight arrow fly poor by having more wieght on a one side taking it out of balance.
Bjrogg
-
I typically roll mine on the table and watch both ends for wobble, not paying much attention to the center. As long as the tip and nock stay centered during the roll, I've never had an issue.
-
Great job man. I just tried this last night. Me and straightening bamboo don't belong in the same sentence lol. I'll stick with wooden dowels.
-
You can't just try it once.
-
Same. I broke at least 3 shafts when I started, spending hours trying to get them straight. May sort of be starting to get the hang of it...
Oh, now I want to try wooden dowels. Red oak is pretty cheap at Lowe's, but tends to have lots of grain violations. So much straighter than the bamboo I have, and softer bends..Forrester's shafts would be way better and still a good value.
Those Korean and Japanese fletchers somehow get the bamboo dead straight, but I'll probably just make crooked arrows that hopefully spin true.
-
Here is a pic of a crooked sourwood arrow I recently made. Not much wiggle in it but you can see some. I placed the arrows on the paper towel so it can be seen better. This is a pic of a hill cane and sourwood(crooked) arrows. Crooked sourwood arrow is on top.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/DSC00176_zpsdqtlkt6q.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/DSC00176_zpsdqtlkt6q.jpg.html)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/DSC00173_zps1uwm5od2.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/DSC00173_zps1uwm5od2.jpg.html)
-
You can't just try it once.
You're right about that. I got another one ready for fletching.i understand why all these jobs were delegated to different craftspeople in the past!
The arrow even got gruff approval from Merlin, the rangemaster at my club. The wooden arrow head probably has about 30 shots... It holds up okay but it actually pulled out of the shaft after that many impacts. Will have to fire up the glue gun and stick it back in before the weekend.
-
if you peel your feathers and lay a thin layer of hide glue on shaft , then spiral wrap feather with sinew they will never come off....gut
-
I've heard to "peel" the feather before. What exactly does that mean?
-
Removing the quill spine thing? Is it really necessary..
I think I may end up cutting feathers in half and then just grinding on a stone or sanding away some of the spine but not all. For now I just use pre-cut fletchings as is. They have some of the spine left. I know Bamboo Archery removes it for supposedly good reasons, reducing weight or something.
Wait, not spine. Stem.
I would love it if someone would explain how they peel the feathers. Do you remove all or most of the stem, leaving just the vane?
-
Grab the feather at the tip end. With the other hand grab the barbels(little feather thingys) on the side you want to use. In a quick motion pull down and away from the quill. It takes a few tries to get the hang of it but if the feather is hydrated it will strip off easily. If it doesn't, place your feathers in a plastic bag with a damp(not wet) paper towel for a day or two. This should hydrate them enough for them to strip easily.
-
Basically the stripping will give you a very very thin base with minimal effort, splitting and sanding will give you a thicker/stiffer base which is a little easier to work with (though that's probably personal preference) but takes more work.
-
I start mine with razor blade but have peeled before by grasping end...you can apply a helical when you wrap with sinew..easily adjust helical before glue sets up... something I haven't done yet but assume would work on peeled feathers is right and left wing would probably work together ..sine helical is removed when peeling...like IO said I haven't tried it cause I got tons of each...gut