Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: markc324 on September 24, 2016, 07:29:25 pm
-
purchased a premium yew stave from Dave Robertson from Medicine Bow Woods few days ago, and it took only 3 days to California! ;D
it is about the only source for me to purchase yew staves. I am not an experience bowyer. I have only made 2 bows. The first one shoots, but I didn't like the tiller; second one was the Maple backed Jatoba, which turned out quite successful! and I have three more laminates waiting to be roughed out and turn into bows. So I still have a bit of time and practice before i get to the "cognac of all wood" and try to make a lower weight (80#-100#) warbow out of, so I thought right now would be a good time to ask question. Please have a look at the attached images.
the seller, Dave, did not specify how long the stave has been seasoned. But from what he sells on eBay, it all says "dried to 12%"; however, i did not purchase this stave on his eBay listing. I wonder if he did not list this stave because it's not seasoned enough to be listed? The stave is not entirely straight; i'll be sure to post a thread asking for advise on heat or steam bending the wood later on. I can see couple of small pin knots that are probably not even deep enough and a branch, which is on the side and will not be in the bow, but not sure if the limb shadow will not be as well, though.
I removed the bark (which scrapes/peel right off), and then went through the fiberous cambium and revealed a small portion of sapwood, just to be familiarize with the real thing (been watching yew bow videos on Del's youtube channel, but had never seen one in front of me...). Gave it a quick sand on the side, and it seems like the sap wood is still green, or is this normal?
Please share your comments about this yew stave. feel free to request detail close up shots if you wish. thanks you for helping me acquiring more knowledge!
86x3x2 with 1/4 inch sapwood @40 rings per inch.
-
Could you put link that that vendor from which you purchased?
-
Tnx, but I am not sure if he sends to Croatia.
-
Don't mess about with heat/steam bending... that stave is plenty straight enough to lay out a bow.
Get a length of string and a pencil ... you can't do any harm with a pencil >:D ;)
Del
-
I never bought from ebay so I have this question, is price listed in shipping a price of the stave + shipping price, or shipping itself? Here is mine print screen:
(http://s18.postimg.org/z5s5zvmt5/afaf.jpg)
-
Don't mess about with heat/steam bending... that stave is plenty straight enough to lay out a bow.
Hi Del, I could be a bit stubborn, but I really want a clean yew bow that is straight when finished and in unbraced state. I understand wood has natural curves and that gives the bow it's character; however, what i am not certain is will the combination of reflex and deflex be a problem when tillering? that's why i imagined having a "corrected" stave to work with will make it more reassuring as the bend of relaxed and deflexed area will show different even when under the same amount of stress, which could potentially mislead my judgement, or am i just paranoid? ;D
or is it common that when tillering, the amount of stress will be efficient to take out the reflex and make the stave straight(er)?
for heat/steam bending correction, I was referring to the reflex & deflex when view from the side, not the left & right when looking down the back from on end.
anyways, do you have any comments on the greenish sapwood? does a properly seasoned yew appear like this?
by the way, i am taking good notes following your 150# warbow build!
-
I never bought from ebay so I have this question, is price listed in shipping a price of the stave + shipping price, or shipping itself? Here is mine print screen:
whoa...the number appears after Shipping is the shipping fee that is in addition to the item. that is crazy! but now we know for certain he does ship to Croatia, but it cost $568.54 altogether!
interestingly, you sure will receive the same stave cross-continent faster than it takes to fly over two states to me though, so it appears! ;D
-
I know, shipping price for Croatia is sometimes disgusting, especially when I sometimes see that its cheaper to to send hickory stave to a war thorn country like Afghanistan, then to Croatia, which is 3000 miles nearer and stable country. Ridiculous and pathetic.
-
It's pretty similar to what I just made that 150# warbow from.
My advice hasn't changed, but if you did watn to heat bend it, you'd want to get it roughed out first and beginning to flex anyway.
Del
-
Can you measure the deflex? That will stop it from being a performer if you don't solve that.
-
Can you measure the deflex? That will stop it from being a performer if you don't solve that.
I'll get back to you on this, Ian. I'll measure the deflex once the bow is roughed out on bend saw, which i don't have access to until next weekend..
-
well, first and foremost.................................how do you get the bark off the stave?....
-
Drawknife. You could easily take the sapwood down a good few mm yet, so personally I'd get going with a drawknife being reasonably careful, but not worrying if you take some rings with you. You don't need to chase rings with yew anyway.
I've had quite a few staves from Dave, and it's basically Russian roulette. Seasoning can be ignored, because it's always wet no matter what he says in my experience. Get a moisture meter and wait until its 12%. I think once you get to know him, and once you know exactly what you're after and can describe it to him carefully he can provide very good staves, but to Joe Public it's a shot in the dark.
-
Yeah drawknife. In my video I use 3 of different sizes from small ones for correction work to massive ones which take a lot of wood off quickly.
-
Just to offer an alternative viewpoint.
1. If the sapwood is 1/4" it will not need reducing, or maybe just a tad at the tips. Bear in mind a warbow is typically 1/2" diameter where the nock meets the limb, that would be 50% sapwood 50% heartwood.
2. The best way to avoid damaging the sapwood is to leave the bark on. I will start to crack off as the the bow is beginning to flex during tillering. The cracks will run across the back and if they are effectively a strain indicator which is a handy way of checking if the tiller is good. They will appear every 3" or so spaced equally if the bow is bending easilly. The sections of bark will fall off or can be easily picked off.
3. If you really want to remove it, just take off the top layer leaving a pinkish dusty layer which will take a pencil mark for marking out.
Del
-
Just to offer an alternative viewpoint.
1. If the sapwood is 1/4" it will not need reducing, or maybe just a tad at the tips. Bear in mind a warbow is typically 1/2" diameter where the nock meets the limb, that would be 50% sapwood 50% heartwood.
2. The best way to avoid damaging the sapwood is to leave the bark on. I will start to crack off as the the bow is beginning to flex during tillering. The cracks will run across the back and if they are effectively a strain indicator which is a handy way of checking if the tiller is good. They will appear every 3" or so spaced equally if the bow is bending easilly. The sections of bark will fall off or can be easily picked off.
3. If you really want to remove it, just take off the top layer leaving a pinkish dusty layer which will take a pencil mark for marking out.
Del
100% agreed. There is no way even with years of experience that I would use a drawknife to remove the bark/cambium. A little deflex will not hurt the performance at all. Forget this straight bow thing! Let it be how it is, tillering won't be much harder and anyway get the practise in on your laminates first.
-
It may sound like a sacrilege but to get the last bits that don't pop off I scrape the outer bark off(down to the purple) and then spritz it with water. Let it soak for a minute or so and scrape it off with a dulled edge. The inner bark doesn't seem to have any waterproofness(word?) and mushes up so it scrapes off easily. I do a final pass with the little wire brush that comes with your Dremel tool.
-
thanks for all of the replies, gents! It's production season at my office so I was pretty caught up with work, thus no time to tend to the yew stave nor checking the responses here.
I have the stave roughed out to a square shape. it is looking more like a "bow" now, but there's still a long way to go.
One thing that kind of bugs me is the color of the wood...it's really pale?!?! not the kind of color I was expecting such as white sap wood and yellow/orange/brown heart wood...
the color is rather like faded pink. there is even one section of the heartwood being so pale that it's the same color as the sapwood.
I reckon the color can be darken when exposed to UV sun light, but is it okay to leave it under the sun? will that reduce the moisture content too fast too much that it becomes brittle? will the color darken as it age? some input is greatly appreciated as always. I'll take some photos of it in the day time later.
thanks!
Mark
-
It will darken a bit with age.
Del
-
thanks Del. what makes me so confused is that when it was still a quartered log, the color was much more orangey, but the inside is really pale, and I thought perhaps it's because the outside was exposed to oxygen and weather. but then when I refer back to your videos, i noticed those stave you roughed out is equal color all the way through. How long has your woods been seasoned? is this an indication of an evidence that my wood has not been seasoned long enough (seller said 1 year)?
thanks
-
In the pics you have the wood looks fine! I wouldn't worry about it. And like del says it will darken with age. Cheers- Brendan
-
Some is pale, some is darker. In my limited experience I haven't noticed any difference in performance. Your finish will darken it some. You could try a test patch now and then you might want to choose an amber or darker finish.
-
It's pretty similar to what I just made that 150# warbow from.
My advice hasn't changed, but if you did watn to heat bend it, you'd want to get it roughed out first and beginning to flex anyway.
Del
Hope I'm not deemed rude by asking a question on this post, when it comes to heat straightening a near dimensions stave, say to reduce a deep natural d-flex with steam on oregon yew, is it advisable to seal the stave first with Danish oil or sealant of some sorts? (Or a steady dry heat on bare wood a safer option on a recently seasoned stave?)
And if steamed straight is it a good idea to then follow with some dry heat tempering of the belly to inhibit the return of any d-flex?
Thanks for any insight/opinions on this,
...Good venture with this bow markc324 , hope you get a great result. :)
R.D.
-
Quite often when I steam yew I get a purple stain from it. It's not deep and scrapes right off but if it's on the sapwood and you want pristine sapwood it can be a bear. I'm not sure if sealing it would help but it might be worth thinking about. Wait for more input ;)
-
You can avoid the purple stain by simply wrapping the bow in clingfilm/gladwrap first. You only need the heat on the timber, not the steam itself.
For dry heat, just go straight onto bare wood. Some people add oil to the area, but it's not necessary.
-
O.k., good to know....thanks DC and Wills.
R.D.
-
You can avoid the purple stain by simply wrapping the bow in clingfilm/gladwrap first. You only need the heat on the timber, not the steam itself.
I was going to try that next time. I was pretty sure it would work. It might be an idea for all steaming. Thanks
-
In the pics you have the wood looks fine! I wouldn't worry about it. And like del says it will darken with age. Cheers- Brendan
I believe you are referring to the original photos that were posted in the beginning of the thread. here are the roughed out bow.
you can see how that section of heartwood is pretty much the same as sapwood. The second image shows the branch/limb shadow that was visible in the original photos when it's still a quartered log. I think it will fall off as I round the belly. I also still have couple of mm's of extra meat to remove, too. not too worried about that. the third image shows a knot that i cleaned out. close inspection shows it just clears the soon-to-be-rounded belly, if it still show, it will be very minimal. I'll epoxy a peg in, but I'm pretty sure it will fall off.
-
What do you worry about, color looks great.
-
That is strange it looks like all heartwood. It'll darken up though I wouldn't worry about it. Cheers- Brendan