Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Ruddy Darter on September 25, 2016, 07:54:50 am
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I've decided on reducing down my 160 Italian yew, I made a bit of a hash of it a while back trying to even out the tiller, it's thick and thin in places it shouldn't be so I'm going to shorten it from 81&/4" to 78" (off the top limb only) and I copied some specs from Norwegian bows and going to mark out rough dimensions for 130-150 which should cover my mistakes, I measured every 10cm with callipers and should have plenty of wood still.
Before I mark it out properly I hoped for some advice on knots on the top limb and what sort of considerations I should take when I narrow the bow. They are shown in order working up the limb ( the bottom limb is pretty clean, just pins)
The first pic is where the new centre is, roughly 2" lower than what it was. As you can see I have plenty of wood.
(The written number is what it will be reduced to in mm)
The third pic is side view of previous knot pic
thanks for any advice, I'm just sizing it up at the moment before I talk myself into making a proper start.
Ruddy
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I am also making bow from dimensions at Norwegian warbows site, although mine is from hazel. I see you are also a "caliper guy" like me :)
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Hi Stalker, yes the callipers are a recent purchase after some good advice on here :)
Ruddy.
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Hard to offer specific advice, but I'd be tempted to allow extra width round those knots rather than extra thickness.
Extra width gives you more sapwood to keep the back strong.
I'd also reduce the length as little as possible, you can always take more off later, maybe just take off 2 inches, it waont make much differnce at the grip, but may just give you some wriggle room later.
I tend to follow the principal of always take off about 2/3 of what you think you should.
Del
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Thanks Del, I agree with extra width rather than thickness, extra thickness is the main cause of the problems to start with. I've move the handle down south two inches and will be taking off the top limb so I can take out some little stress splits that have occurred under where it has been left thick around the back of those double knots (shown in pic), they look like they may get worse. So I'm going to get it back to something like a stave and restart rather than tiller as is, not really fussed what weight I get, heavy or light..just a nice 78" working bow. The specs I've copied with the length I'm aiming for fits within all the irregularities.
At the moment it goes thick and thin and thick and bulbous around that knot and stressing above and below it.
Anyway, I'll probably stare at it for a few hours and then put it back to rest for a few weeks , :D
Ideally I want to get a couple of staves and start bows from scratch and then go back to it.
Ruddy.
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Don't touch it. You can't make a bow better by what you're doing, leave it alone.
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Hi Stalker, yes the callipers are a recent purchase after some good advice on here :)
Ruddy.
We are actually a rare bunch, many don't even use measurements!
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I have shortened, lightened and reworked bows with cracked tips made by a well know Italian bowyer.
Mind I was reducing the to ladies weight.
It is an o[ortunity to learn from others mistakes and either succeed or make some of your own.
It is a no loose scenario if the bow is too heavy and has problems anyway.
Learning and experience is priceless.
Ignorance is free and instant...
Did I just say that? It's a keeper! :)
Del
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Hi Stalker, yes the callipers are a recent purchase after some good advice on here :)
Ruddy.
Lot faster for me to make calculations if I don't have to mess with fractions.
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Metric system all the way! Ok, maybe its easier for width in inches, but thickness taper is far better when you look at the millimeters.
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I made a start over the weekend, I measured and marked on the new dimensions and linked them up with lengths of masking tape to get a straight as I could pen line on. I've taken off the two sides but have yet to mark on fully the new belly line and then reduce. With the new dimensions and new length I seem to still have enough for a 130-160, although I'm going for a 31 draw. Ive left extra around the knots and will reduce them some when I get going with tillering, but will keep then flat on the belly (I'm building a tillering tree with pulley too to make life easier :D)
Here's some pics,
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I've left the old horn on for now so I got a better hold while shaping, I'll cut it off and put a new one on once I've reduced the belly.
There is one knot (pic1)) I'd like to question (4&1/2" up from centre), the pen line is the new belly line. I'm just going to follow this line and the knot should be o.k? Should I consider anything else?, (I run in super glue in the knot crack)
Two more pics of the extra I left around the knots on the top limb, and a pic of the bow after both the sides reduced.
R.D.
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In that top pic, the Q you have to ask is where does the knot come from? Does it start from the centre of the tree which is still hidden in the timber, or does it match up to one in the centre of the belly?
If is goes from belly to side, it is possibly asking to cause a pinch, I'd be tempted to leave the belly just a bit less rounded near the knot to give it a little support. E.G leave a little extra where your black line is.
Generally I feel the mistake is to allow too much extra round knots and to not pick out any black stuff... mind your knots seem t I just had a 115# explode on me ::)
Del
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Thanks Del, nothing showing on the back and here is a pic belly view, the knot is hard and tight with nothing loose to come out. Thanks for the advice, I was intending to keep it a little stiffer there and shall leave it less rounded and more supporting.
Sorry about your bow :-\.
R.D.
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Looks like you are keeping the faith with that piece of yew, Ruddy. Easy does it now!
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:D thanks JW_, yep just doing a bit at a time with no rush to keep it pleasurable. I'm really happy I read up on the internet about tuning spokeshaves, I got a Irwin record flat bottom that was a bit rough and a Stanley round bottom that I gave up on using. I did all that was recommended, cleaning out the factory paint from the bed and clamp with a chisel, filing around the jaw, and getting the bottom flat and smooth like a mirror etc...now they are a dream to use and cut like a knife through butter...I much prefer shavings to dust, nowt wrong with with a little man glitter though. :D
R.D.
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I picked up a fine spokeshave from Lee Valley Tools, a Veritas flat bottom spokeshave. I had tuned half a dozen Stanleys by that time, their toolbed is horrid, the rest of the quality control all but nonexistent. I was expecting a little work on the Veritas, but was happily mistaken! I did open the throat a little to take thicker curls when I am setting the D2 tool steel blade deeper, though.
I think many people that dislike spokeshaves have mainly had to deal with a poor tool. Making sure the cutting blade is wedded flawlessly to the tool bed eliminates a lot of chatter. Dead flat sole with relief at the toe and heel also contributes to a smooth pull. And then you gotta beat it into people's heads that the bevel faces DOWN to give you a good sharp angle to the cut!!! Never mind how you gotta keep the blade razor sharp!
I know, I know, it is a poor workman that blames the tool. But how many violin makers use a sharp edged rock and another rock to build violins, huh?
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Those Veritas have got some great reviews I see and they look the business, but a little pricey for me for the little I'm doing at the moment, I may invest in one or two when I can find a source for bow wood (yew,wychelm, elm ,good European ash kinda woods if anyone can help :D). I am very happy to have got the spokeshaves I have working nice now after some tinkering, the Stanley round bottom would just clog and chatter straight away no matter what I did until I gave it some attention and filed the bottom of the front plate down, not a problem at all now and they have become my favourite tools instead of being a headache. Happy days :).
(I did read that Veritas make a blade that fits in Stanleys and was recommended, might look into that.)
R.D.
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I was afraid the spendy Veritas would end up like so many Stanley's....falling to the floor and breaking. So far, so good. And not just because I am more careful with it, but it seems to be from a better grade of cast iron as well! I consider it well worth the money. Besides...it's pretty.
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I've got about 3 more elm staves than I'm likely to use in the next five years if you can get to Warwickshire, and I can show you plenty of straight elder and hawthorn too...
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Thanks Lucasade, that sounds great 8). I'm a little stuck for wheels at present but if I can sort something out I'll be in contact, many thanks again.
R.D.
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No worries - just let me know.