Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bjrogg on October 19, 2016, 02:36:05 pm
-
I know that white woods slip their cambium when in growing season. When does it change to winter mode? If tree still had leaves but they have changed colors will cambium still slip? Thanks
Bjrogg
-
I cut a hickory in early October when it still had leaves. The bark was stuck tight.
-
bjrogg.....It's about the sap flow.I'm sure you realize that but if the leaves are turning I'm afraid the sap flow may have stopped but will be in a kinda inbetween stage if you know what I mean if caught at the right time.Any later and it'll get tight like OO said.Just like the row crop beans leaves turning the growing has stopped and drying has begun.
-
Well that settles it. It's too late for me to cut a tree and split my first self bow stave then. That makes this a 2 year project, one to wait til next summer to harvest and one to wait for drying. Patience....
-
No not at all.It can be draw knifed off Orrum.
-
Well that settles it. It's too late for me to cut a tree and split my first self bow stave then. That makes this a 2 year project, one to wait til next summer to harvest and one to wait for drying. Patience....
Not at all. Sap starts rising in the spring and really early for some trees. It also doesn't take a year to dry wood.
Plus people use winter cut wood all the time and remove the cambium with elbow grease and a few other options(steam, water etc.)
-
I wont muscle it off. If I cant cut when it slips off I don't cut. Elbow grease doesn't always work. More often than not you will nick the back no matter how hard you try not to, too many ridges and humps and bumps to deal with and not nick. But, I'm loaded with staves and am not "desperate" like you are, so its easy to say wait.
-
There's always the put it in the shower routine which I've never done but I bet it works.
-
Do you have to strip the bark? I tend to leave the bark on for drying and then drawknife it off but many let it ping off during tiller, or even oil the bark and try to keep it on permanently
-
If you are eager to get some staves go ahead and cut them now. It will take more work to get a clean back. I've removed stuck bark and cambium on hickory, hackberry, and HHB. I used a draw knife, a scraper, patience, and time.
-
End of august here in Croatia
-
Thanks guys that was how I thought it worked. Orrum you can cut anytime but during growing season the bark and cambium slip off exposing a perfect single growth ring. This does make back of bow much better and easier but you can take it down to 1st ring even leave a small amount of cambium. My 1st HHB bow I cut February 27 2016 I took it to 1st ring and roughed to heavy floor tiler let dry. I used it for hunting this fall. Sometimes there's the best way to do it and sometimes there's the quickest way that still works. I wanted to learn and didn't want to wait for perfect especially knowing I may break it anyhow. lol. I'd cut some if you had the chance it's just wood. Get. Some drying start the learning process. Next step perfection.
Bjrogg
-
HHB is still really easy to remove the bark from in the fall. It may not slip but it's still very moist and can be spooned off out of all the ridges and valleys.
-
So if I cut it in the spring when the leaves are first out will the bark slip correctly?
-
Around that time but it varies a bit. Generally the beginning or the end of the growing season is considered ideal for having a full growth ring.
-
A few times I left bark on staves that were clung tight, I steamed one end which loosens it up and then popped the rest off. Also usually will work to leave the bark on into tillering and it will pop off when you start bending.
-
I have NO clue how you guys can lay a bow out and actually start tillering it having never seen the back or its grain.
-
I always wondered that to Pearl
Bjrogg
-
I have NO clue how you guys can lay a bow out and actually start tillering it having never seen the back or its grain.
In my case super picky wood selection. I do remove down to a thin layer of inner bark though. It's pretty obvious by then.
By leaving the bark until the bow is at close to finished width it greatly reduces how much stuff needs to be scraped off with a spoon.
I prefer winter cut wood for a couple of reasons of convenience mostly.
-
Why don't debark a tree if you want to work it? Hardest type you can do is the european hornbeam with weird dips under the bark. All others, simply use a draw knife and thats it.
-
All others, simply use a draw knife and thats it.
Know how I can tell you haven't properly debarked many types of wood? ::)
-
It sure is nice to have that bark slip off easily and that happens during the growing season.
Around here (NH) that's when the leaves start showing and stops when the leaves begin to fall which is right around June to September and that varies year to year here.
Anyway, when I've missed it or if I have a stave of whitewood with the bark still on it I use a drawknife to get close and finish with a scraper.
I've done it many times that way.
Jawge
-
All trees here with what I worked, doesn't matter if bow wood are easy to work with, except this a-hole called european hornbeam.
-
I like to cut mine in August, I have left the bark on before as it seasoned but don't like to for 2 reasons, yes it is tough to get off, especially Hickory but the main reason is bugs, so even if it is cut in the winter I still take the bark off before putting it away to dry and season. :)
Pappy
-
I prefer to cut whitewoods in the spring when the leaves are just out. This time of year the bark slips and the growth ring below the bark has had all winter to mature. Wood cut in late summer was just laid down during the growing season. It may not make a difference but that is the way I do it.
-
The wood is dormant in the winter so that growth ring just sits there already mature.
-
Ok back again. I just cut a China Berry tree. Cut down a 5-6 inch thick sucker growing off a old stump, it had 4-5 sisters. It's about 10 feet long. The last couple feet on the butt end do a bad dog leg. So then I probably messed up. Took it home and cut down the middle of the straight level side all the way a couple inches deep with a circular skill saw. Then put wedges in and it was splitting really easy along the cut. Then it dived off another way, my fault I have split enough locust posts as a boy to know to watch and perhaps have to hatchet thru a big tear to get back on track. I should have not sawed it and just started with a hatchet driven into the heart. Anyway it's split and I laid it up in the rafters of the barn to dry. Do I need to paint the ends? Do I need to weigh it down or tie them down?What size does the stave need to be? I have roughly a third split piece and the other half is two thirds of the log. When do I check for bark to slip. Do I use the cambium or do I have to chase a ring? I can email someone a pic of the ends. Thanks folks! I guess I could start a build thread but we gotta wa it for this thing to dry.
-
Orrum, you should at very least paint or seal ends. If bark and cambium will slip the sooner the easier. If you do take off cambium you need to paint or seal that too. I've never used that type of wood but some woods you could also rough out belly to heavy floor tiller then it would dry faster good luck
Bjrogg
-
I have never used china berry so take my remarks with a grain of salt.
I would remove the bark asap. Nothing is to be gained by leaving it on.
Sometimes the backs of whitewoods check for me and sometimes they do not.
If you think it might check then sand with 100 grain and 220 grain, stain, and seal with a poly.
For a length leave a good 6" then later on you can shorten it. Maybe double your draw and add 20% if the crown is not too rounded. If it is then add a good 2" to that.
In a heavily crowned stave the tension forces along the back are concentrated down the middle or high point.
There is much more on my site.
http://traditionalarchery101.com/
Jawge
-
George thanks for all your help on your site! I have time to day to check the bark slippage. I am going forward with yalls suggestion to make a board bow while I wait for the staves to dry.
-
So the neighbor is sawing up hurricane trees for firewood. I just got a 6 inch thick 8 feet long perfectly straight white oak. Should I just try to split it in half? Could someone point me at a youtube of how to split this stuff, peel it and whatever needs doing?
-
Orrum, white ash splits easy. As soon as you can take a couple wedges and a sledgehammer. Start at one end put wedge in center hammer it into end of log like you where splitting firewood. Next put the second wedge into crack that opens on side and hammer it into side. This should loosen 1st wedge so you can continue down the split. Keep doing this till you get to the end. If you have knots you can try to split it so you get least amount of knot to get a good stave. You might be able to get another split maybe get 4 staves if it's good enough. Then if the bark and cambium will slip try to get them off right away. Next paint or seal ends and back to prevent further splitting (checks). Then put in a dry ventilated area you could even rough out your bow and tiler to a heavy floor tiller to speed up the drying process.
One question before you start. Does the tree have emerald ash bore? All the ash around here are to damaged from ash bore to be bow wood any more. My 1st bow I made was white ash, there are better woods but it made a good bow and is still shooting after many thousands of arrows but is mostly retired now
Bjrogg
-
Bjrogg it's white oak. I assume the method is the same. It's been cut down for about 5 dsys.
-
Sorry Orrum I see that now, read that wrong. I haven't used white oak but should be the same. Not sure how easy it splits but think it should split good. Sometimes I help keep back from tearing by using saws all in between where I put my wedges.
Bjrogg
-
You are welcome. Yes, same thing applies with white oak. Seal the ends, split into staves, take off the bark and maybe seal the back after sanding and staining.
There is one other thing. You can actually then begin to floor tiller the stave getting the limbs to bend an inch or 2. That way she'll dry up faster.
Jawge
-
The wood is dormant in the winter so that growth ring just sits there already mature.
from south florida.... what is this "winter" thing you speak of? ;D :P
-
Thanx George. I am going to accumulate as many staves as possible from all this huricane wood. I don't know how to make bows but I will have lots of staves to try!!! When I started knapping having plenty of material was dificult!
-
Welcome, Orrum. White oak is a very tough wood. It is practically bullet proof.
I once saw a Native American white oak bow in a museum. I think it was in Montreal but U can't remember.
Jawge
-
A trick I just thought up 3 weeks ago and works really well, so far, remove the bark and spread fat, or mink oil anything oily really and let it soak while drying then you can just scrape it off with a butter knife. So far the cabium has come right off.