Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => HowTo's and Build-a-longs => Topic started by: dragonman on November 28, 2016, 02:16:28 pm

Title: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: dragonman on November 28, 2016, 02:16:28 pm
I tried to make a bow string from this because its cheaper than FF, but it keeps stretching...was wondering how this is possible?
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: Frodolf on November 28, 2016, 02:44:24 pm
The braid maybe?
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: PEARL DRUMS/PEARLY/PD/DRUMS on November 28, 2016, 03:36:41 pm
If a no stretch material is lengthening, its not stretching. Its settling. You might have too many twists in it. 
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: PEARL DRUMS/PEARLY/PD/DRUMS on November 28, 2016, 03:39:29 pm
An 1/8# spool of D97 will yield approx. 12-15 60" 10 strand bow strings. That's about $2 each. Unless your getting your fishing line dirt cheap, you probably aren't saving any money using it.
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: dragonman on November 28, 2016, 04:22:50 pm
your right Pearl...wish I hadnt bothered experimenting, should have stuck with what I know works..for a few extra 's   getting too old to waste time experimenting...

and yes it must be the braid settling, its the only explanation. ..but I did get it from ebay and it came from China, maybe its fake dyneema
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: PatM on November 28, 2016, 06:19:52 pm
I really like Power-Pro. It certainly doesn't stretch and it holds twisted loops way better than you might assume. Likely because braids produce more friction than straight fibers when wax is added?

  Unless you're making a lot of strings the hit you take for a pricey roll of fishing line is likely not a big deal and they last forever being very resistant to abrasion.
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: Dakota Kid on November 29, 2016, 01:15:14 am
+1 Pat.

I've been using power pro since I started making bows. I was into fishing first so it was an item I keep around anyway. It makes a fantastic string. I haven't tried FF because I saw no need to add to the supplies list.   
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: willie on November 29, 2016, 01:49:51 am
it could be fake, but you should be able to tell if it comes close to the breaking strength, if so, then maybe not

dyneema and spectra, the two competing fibers, are both supplied to mills which make various different products.

better mills have better treatments and coatings for the base fiber, and better or worse quality control when spinning the fibers into strands and braids. UHMWPE,  (both Spectra and Dyneema) , will exhibit an initial stretching or set, and any braid or lay (twist) will also have a "set" before it settles into the final stiffness. better mills pre-set their pre-spun fibers, and finished braids if the specs call for a non- stretch application. This extra treatment and pre-setting is probably what makes one product more popular than another.

All is not lost if you have a roll of the not so top shelf stuff. Simply spool off what you need for the next string, and one end off to something and tie a handle to grip with on the other end and do your own pre-stretching/setting before making the string. you should be able to feel the "bounce" and be able to work it some in tension, just under the breaking strength, before looping it on your jig. A little destructive testing on sample will tell you if the roll you have is a keeper.

Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: Strichev on November 29, 2016, 10:23:27 am
I bought a 300 m roll of braided fishing line from china for 7 euros. It seems to be holding up to the specifications listed. I also hear some fishermen in Australia use the same Chinese brand for... fishing and don't have problems with it.
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: PatM on November 29, 2016, 10:34:07 am
Just pulling a single strand tied to something will tell you a lot. The stuff feels like wire, or it should.

 


 
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: dragonman on November 29, 2016, 02:43:55 pm
thanks for the advice and imput...I Tested the breaking strain and it holds up...but still I brace a bow at 5 1/2" and it ends up 4" after half hour,,,,I tried to pre stretch it by hanging my whole body weight off it , but it still will not keep its brace height!!   guess its just a bad product and I should by a known brand next time
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: PatM on November 29, 2016, 03:01:56 pm
Are you waxing it before twisting it up or are you making it endless?
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: dragonman on November 29, 2016, 03:13:53 pm
Pat..I am making an adjustable flemish twist type string and yes I did wax it...

was also wondering how many strands  would you use to make a 50-60lb bow?

thanks for your help

dave
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: dragonman on November 29, 2016, 04:15:37 pm
I decided to make A FF string instead.  I have always used flemish twist double loops with FF or dyneema, In the old days I used adjustable dacron strings, but since using FF I have never made an adjustable, only used double loops (also twisted )....So I just made one and   the adjustable loop is slipping...this must be happening with the braided line adjustable too?

IS FF AND dyneema suitable for adjustable strings, does the knot have a tendency to slip...or am I doing something wrong? cant think what It could be...I know my knot is correct, I've tied it hundreds of times...
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: PEARL DRUMS/PEARLY/PD/DRUMS on November 29, 2016, 04:39:16 pm
With FF I would use 8 or 10 strands, whatever you choose will work fine.

Sounds like your timber hitch is slipping, its very common. I know there is a way to prevent it, but I cant remember how as I don't use them. I just keep a bunch of strings on the shop wall and find one that fits.
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: make-n-break on November 29, 2016, 07:42:04 pm
I always had a huge problem with FF and dyneema fishing line slipping with a traditional bowyer's knot. I switched to a "double" variation of the bowyer's knot that I believe is called the Japanese bowyer's knot. It's identical to a traditional bowyer's knot except you wrap it around the main string body twice before wrapping the tag end around itself. Knot number 5 in this photo is what I use, and it will not slip at all. The extra wrap around the main body of the string makes all the difference. Give it a try. Bet it solves your issue.
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: loon on November 29, 2016, 08:50:50 pm
That "tsuru" seems to work well for me, even without reverse twisting (just simple twisting) and D-97 and D-10.
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: dragonman on November 30, 2016, 05:00:39 am
thats weird ,what happened to my thread?....I thought string talk was allowed on the bows page!!!..whats a bow without a string....now half of the info has dissapeared  in the moving.!!

would have thought this was a usefull topic?

thanks make and break for the knot pictures...very useful...looks like it will solve the problem
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: DC on November 30, 2016, 03:35:29 pm
Having a thread moved into "How to's and build-a-longs" is sort of an honour. Especially into the "Sticky's". It means it is very interesting.
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: dragonman on December 01, 2016, 12:35:25 pm
yeh, but half of the thread went missing in the move,,,,the most interesting part!!!
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: willie on December 01, 2016, 04:04:40 pm
dragon

I see one of my posts missing. I can repost what I have learned about working with these materials, if it is of interest.
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: dragonman on December 02, 2016, 12:17:51 pm
Thanks Willie, yes it would be interesting to read
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: willie on December 03, 2016, 03:38:26 pm
I can't recall much of the deleted post, but some of your slippage problem might be more about the coatings on the fishing line. UHMWPE fibers are very slippery in their raw form, and the mill that spun your fishing line may have treated it to some degree or another with a treatment that makes for good fishing line, ie to cast well, but maybe not the best for splicing.
Even if the line was treated or coated with a different coating more specific to splicing and knot holding, you would likely find that special knots or practices are also recommended to help overcome the inherent slipperiness of UHMWPE.
I would experiment more with your splices, maybe make them longer or maybe even try to sieze the splice with rosin or even try to wash the splice area with solvents to see if you can reduce the slippperiness of the fishline, if it was coated with something not to your liking.
Title: Re: braided dyneema fishing line
Post by: theguywitheyebrows on January 01, 2018, 10:15:24 am
I can't recall much of the deleted post, but some of your slippage problem might be more about the coatings on the fishing line. UHMWPE fibers are very slippery in their raw form, and the mill that spun your fishing line may have treated it to some degree or another with a treatment that makes for good fishing line, ie to cast well, but maybe not the best for splicing.
Even if the line was treated or coated with a different coating more specific to splicing and knot holding, you would likely find that special knots or practices are also recommended to help overcome the inherent slipperiness of UHMWPE.
I would experiment more with your splices, maybe make them longer or maybe even try to sieze the splice with rosin or even try to wash the splice area with solvents to see if you can reduce the slippperiness of the fishline, if it was coated with something not to your liking.

i never thought to wash with solvents for help with slipperiness. i'm a hammock enthusiast, and over at the hammock forums we've [they did it all before me] deduced over time that, with the exception of a few specialized ones, knots just don't hold well in the dyneema braids we often use: Zing-it\Lash-it, Amsteel-Blue, dynaglide, spectra, forgive me if i have forgotten any. splicing works for eyes, and specialized adjustment splices, if a specialized technique, called a locked brummel, is used. key words throughout all of my knowledge of how to properly utilized dyneema requires specialized knowledges.

one could always create an endless loop string, and then if it stretches continue to twist it to shorten it up....i have zero attempts myself, im only speculating, so feel free to correct me so i know what the heck im talkin about next time if im wrong lol.