Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Travis on December 04, 2016, 03:26:44 pm
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Hello,
This is my first post here, but I've been a long time visitor of the site. I'm a newbie, but have built a few board bows about ten years ago. I recently got bit by the archery bug again and need some advice about tree species and wood selection. This past year I moved to a new area (central WI) so I'm still trying to familiarize myself with tree ID and the species in the area. I have about 7 areas of forest that primarily contains pine, what I think are red, white, bur oak, red maple, and a few other species I haven't been able to ID yet. Does anyone have any experience with these woods? I've seen a lot of red oak bows made, but not many from staves. What about red maple? I've used the search feature and found mixed results. I'd like to make a self bow that is hunting weight to start out with. Also, what is the ideal diameter to cut the trees down at? I believe the TBB says 7". Thank you in advance for your help!
Travis
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I can't deal with US timbers as I have no experience with them but as for diameter wood to cut, it depends on your access to machinery. I have no access to chain-saws, big bench saws or large band-saws, so 7 or 8 inch is as big as I can go since that is about the maximum I can cleave into staves. Also, once cleaved, there is very little wasted time or timber in shaping the stave with hand tools - too much timber to cut away by hand is an endurance test. I often use trees of as little as 4" diameter but be aware that this size of sapling gives a stave with a very high crown
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You will get many different opinions on which wood is best, only way to find out is to get to cutting and seasoning. Tree diameter depends on type of bow you plan to make assuming you are making an unbacked selfbow. 6'' is a general minimum for a bow 2'' wide, of course you can use smaller diameter trees if it is more oval shaped which will give you a nice flat back, or make a narrower bow. Experiment and you will find what you like best. Of the species you mentioned I would try white oak first.
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If you have oaks and maples, chances are you have hop hornbeam (ironwood). Any of the hard maples are good, white oak is good. You see red oak board bows because red oak boards are widely available. Given a forest full of trees, red oak would not be my first choice. I am in eastern WI, not much different than you. Should be able to find elm, ash, hickory, maples, hornbeam, etc.
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Thank you for the replies. I will do some more exploring in the woods this week. Hopefully be able to find some to cut.
Of the species you mentioned I would try white oak first.
Do you guys know any tricks on how to tell the different oaks apart in the winter? They all look the same to me.
If you have oaks and maples, chances are you have hop hornbeam (ironwood). Any of the hard maples are good, white oak is good. You see red oak board bows because red oak boards are widely available. Given a forest full of trees, red oak would not be my first choice. I am in eastern WI, not much different than you. Should be able to find elm, ash, hickory, maples, hornbeam, etc.
What type of area does hornbeam like? I'm sure there's some around, but haven't found it yet. I think there are a lot of different trees in the area, but don't know anyone to let me cut wood yet. Since you're in WI do you know if it's legal to cut wood in any of the state forests, or do you generally get it from private land owners?
I did also find a few of these trees, but I'm not sure what they are. Would anyone have any ideas?
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Black cherry is my guess.
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Top picture is cherry. Ironwood likes drier soil. It is an understory tree, rarely above 10 inches in diameter. It has a small, scaly bark, similar to old school trebark camo. I cut all my wood on private land. I have no idea about public land cutting. If you want ash, now is the time. Everyone is cutting with the threat of the emerald ash borer.
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Welcome to the PA Travis...You've got black cherry like the other fellas said there.A little white sapwood and nice dark heartwood.Going to your local Natural Resource Center Service in a town next to you might help with identifying the trees in your area.
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Ironwood and Black Cherry quite often grow together
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Welcome to PA Travis. I would try to find some Hop Hornbeam (ironwood) once you see it it's easy to identify by bark. Bark is thin, flakey, scaly about the same color as white ash but much thinner. I have some bark I peeled off some staves last summer, I'll try to remember to take some pictures of it for you
Bjrogg
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Here is a pic of Iron wood if that helps
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Here's a couple more pictures for you Travis. If you harvest it during the growing season bark and cambium will peel right off leaving a perfect back for your bow. I live in Michigan and here I mostly find it in the low ground. Good Luck hope to see more from you soon
Bjrogg
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If you have hickory, you have a sure-fire bow wood. Just get it dry before tillering. I favor red oak over white oak. Its elasticity is better.
Jim Davis
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Thank you everyone for the advice and the pictures! I see what you mean about hornbeam looking like old style camo. It looks like I'll have to start meeting some of the landowners in the area that'll part with some trees, good call on the ash trees! I'm starting to find myself staring at trees more as I'm driving around the countryside now. If there was a 10 commandments of the traditional bowyer would one read "thou shalt not covet they neighbors trees" LOL
I was able to spend an hour or so walking around my property looking for some suitable wood. I found plenty of straight oak trees. I'll probably end up cutting a few just to try them. I think I'm able to determine the difference between red and white now. Is the black cherry any good for making bows? I found several more of them that look pretty straight and knot free. I know I mentioned a self bow originally, but would red maple work for a backed bow at all? The TBB Vol 4 mentions it, but doesn't say much about it. There are so many straight trees it would be sad if they wouldn't work. Unfortunately I was not able to find any hornbeam anywhere.
I was able to find a pretty nice looking ERC tree. It's about 12" in diameter. It's about 7' to the first major branch. I attached a picture below along with what I think is a red maple. Some of them seem to have a rougher bark on the young trees while others are smooth... The branches are to high for me to look at any of the buds.
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If that top one is a maple, I'm guessing sugar maple or maybe norway maple. Less likely to be the second if it's growing wild. Norway maples are used in landscaping mostly and as the name suggests it's not a native tree. Winter ID's are tough even for the experienced.
In addition to HHB you might find american hornbeam as well. That one should be an easier winter ID for a beginner and the wood properties are identical more or less. It has a fluted trunk, or pronounced rolling ridges, similar to an antler. It is also an under story tree, rarely getting larger than a 6 or 8" diameter trunk. Do some image searching and you'll get the idea.
Good luck and welcome to the addiction.
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I like to cut white wood saplings more so than trees. Something in the 3-4" range, max. I like to get two opportunities from one sapling. And, I'm convinced saplings are more resilient than trees.
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Not to mention the difference in weight and easier to split too. Work smart not hard, right?
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Easier to cut by hand, easier to transport, easier to store, no heavy splitting and a high crown back is never a bad idea with tension strong white woods.
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I think you just partially answered my next question. Do you worry about decrowning, or does that depend on the species?
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Never have and never will de-crwon a stave. Some have and do, not I. Id grab a board before I spent that much time making a stave into a board.