Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: 100grains on December 22, 2016, 05:02:42 pm
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Hey all,
In order to be ready for January archery season, I've been shooting my white oak self bow religiously. It pulls 47# at 31", and I'm using 40-45 spine arrows with 100 grain points. Upon release, there is significant wobble side to side, and I'm grouping arrows about a foot left of where I aim at 15 yards. In all of my practicing I have surely developed a couple of bad habits, but I'm wondering if these have cumulated into a release bad enough to cause this problem. With the season coming so soon I'm leery about changing anything too major in the setup, but should I mess with the point weight? Other than aiming right, what do you guys think I should do in this situation? All help is greatly appreciated.
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I think they may be too weak in spine, how long are they? I'm assuming they are at least 31", the longer they are past 28" the higher the spine you need.
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I would try a substantially stiffer arrow. Depending on your tip weight you could reduce that some to try.
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it's really hard to diagnose these things from afar. As far as spine goes, we'd have to have more info to make a good guess (are you right handed? how wide is the handle of the bow?) My suspicion is always that spine is too stiff.
For form, we can't even guess without some good video.
Other questions I have are about your groups- you say they are a foot left... but how big are the groups?
How long have you been shooting?
Have you bareshafted your arrows?
Everyone has to decide for themselves if they are ready to hunt.
My advise is to try more point weight to see if that helps.
On a deer sized animal, an arrow that misses to the left or right by a foot is a disaster.
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A 40/45 splined arrow at 31 inches is more like 25/30. The lighter 100 grain points would help off set that but not enough, my guess is to light. Get really close to the target and shoot, say 15 feet and see how the arrows hits ,tail left in the target it is to weak, tail right to stiff for a right handed shooter. ;)
Are you drawing a true 31 inches or you think you are ?? that is a very long draw. ;)
Pappy
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All good advice, I suspect Urufu is right about to weak of spine. However like Aaron said hard to diagnose from afar without more info. It's very possible it's to heavy. I would do like Pappy says, if you shoot arrow without fletching it might become obvious if arrow flies sideways you know you have a problem. Just try to always have clean release and constant anchor for bareshaft test. Aaron had a real good list of questions to go through. Good luck I understand not wanting to change anything in your form but if you can get arrows tuned better it could give you a lot more confidence. You want to know your arrow is going where you want it to.
Bjrogg
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I have a question that fits in here. If you have a problem like this would it help to short draw a few shots to see if it helps/changes anything? For example if the arrow is wobbling and you short draw it should straighten up and fly right. Right? :D
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I've done it, Don.
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Wow you guys are on it! The arrows are 31.25", and my draw is certainly not 31 with this self bow, I must have gotten that number from back in my release shooting compound days. There is still a hair more than an inch of clearance from the riser to the broached. With a bare shaft, the arrow was slanting left into the target. While I tried to shorten the arrows to increase spine, my draw is still long enough to not be able to cut much more off without having plenty of clearance from the riser and my hand. On a related note, should I try to cut them just short enough so the broadhead touches my knuckle at full draw?
Aaron- my groups are typically on a grapefruit-sized area, with the occasional flyer. I put down the compound almost 6 months ago (and I even worked at an archery shop that dealt almost exclusively with compound bows at the time) and I've been shooting longbows with real dedication since.
I also have some 50-55 spine arrows cut to the same length I will compare to these in flight.
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Interesting question DC, I really don't know the answer but I get the point of your question. I'm still pretty new to all this and learning as I go. I would think if you had to weak of a spined shaft and you could accurately short draw and have a clean release it should improve your arrows flight. If your flight got worse it would seem to indicate to heavy of spine. How ever as I said I'm still learning and some times a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it seems to make sense to me. For me just shooting my arrows before I fletch them really cleared up a lot of my questions.
Bjrogg
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I think you arrows are too lite in spine,,
I know they are supposed to go left it to heavy,, but if they are way under they will go left too,,,
also,, I think you have moved your hand way to the right of your eye to get to 30 inch draw,,
that will move the impact to the left,,
try canting the bow so the arrow is under your eye,,
with a heavier spine arrow, ,your left and right should be much better,,
dont be afraid to change your arrow to something that hits where you are looking, that will increase your odds of success,,
sometimes overpractice,,, can be a bad thing,,as well,,
I have alot of arrows,, sometimes I shoot 5 different spine arrows,, and the one that hits where I am looking is what I go with for that bow,, there is always one arrow,, or spine arrow that shoots the best with a given bow at a given time,,
hope that helps,,
ok one more thing,, make sure you are not putting too much pressure on your bottom two finger on release,, :)
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You said the arrow was slanting left into the target... to avoid any possible confusion, can you be more specific. Was the tail left? Still want to know how wide the handle of your bow is.
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100 grains, thanks for the additional info. By bareshaft slanting to left I'm thinking your saying the notch end or tail of arrow is leaning left. I'm also assuming your shooting right handed off the left side of bow. If that is all correct then it would seem your dynamic spine is to weak. You could go with shorter shaft or lighter point to stiffen your dynamic spine. To my way of thinking 100 grains is already about as light as I think I'd want to hunt with but I may be wrong. I would be tempted to bareshaft your 50-55 but your most likely going to need heavier points if you do that which might throw of your distance shooting short term. You could maybe try lighter point or shorten shaft 1/2 " at a time. Good Luck grapefruit sized group at 15yards ain't to bad hopefully tuned arrow will put them where your looking as Brad said don't be afraid to change your arrows when you get the right combination it will be worth it.
Bjrogg
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Aaron- By slanting left I mean that the nock was farther to the left than the tip poked into the target. There is a cut in shelf and that brings it close to centershot but the arrow still angles away so it is less than 1/4 in from centershot in the handle.
Well the more I mess with this setup the more I feel like I'm chasing my tail.
The 50-55# spined arrows at the same length group very slightly to the right from that bow. While shooting a recurve or a lighter weight self bow I have no issue whatsoever with shooting to the left using those arrows.
My next choices seem to be use a different bow, cut in the shelf further, or aim to the right.
Additionally since I only have an inch or less of clearance from the riser should I cut them to length such that the broached just touches my knuckle at full draw?
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Ok, thanks for the clarifications. Seeing as the bow is near centershot, I agree with everyone that the arrows are too weak. I would just build out the strike plate. That is add leather to the sight window to make it less centershot.
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When you buy spined arrows they are spined for a 28" arrow with a 125gr. point. Any variation from that will change the effective spine. For each inch over 28" you subtract 5# of spine weight(under 28" add 5# per inch) and for points under 125gr add 5# per 25grs of point weight(over 125gr subtract 5# per 25grs over 125gr)
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100 grains,, if you find the right arrow the bow gonna shoot fine,, sometimes bows shoot an arrow that dont go with the chart,, yes you may need to fine tune a bit on the brace or building out the side plate,, but you have alot of options,, that are postive,,
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The way I remember it is left is limp and right is rigid.
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To the left is light for right hand shooter, yes you can short draw to help figure where you are to be somewhat close before going to full draw. Pretty dangerous to shoot an arrow way to weak to start with so I try to be at least some where in the ball park. If it is weak and you can't cut it off any more the only thing left is lighter point. Pappy
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The info Pat gave is right on so you can take that, figure your draw an weight of bow at that draw and get close, for most non center shot selfbow I start abut 5 lb under and that is usually close and fine tune from there . Like Brad said some bows are just finicky about the arrows.Pappy
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Well after messing with those 40-45# spine arrows, I finally put them down for the stiffer set. The 50-55# ones shoot pretty well after cutting the shelf a bit further in. This all being said, if I don't fully reach my anchor point, engage in some amount of back tension, and end with a clean release; I'll notice some straying to the left.
In the end, it seems as though my final solution was choosing heavier arrows and working down, as well as being more careful about perfect form.
All of the input was extremely helpful, I appreciate the experience you all are able to share.
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To be clear, you guys are saying nock left is weak and nock right is strong for a right handed shooter. If you leave the "nock" part out it reverses. As a lefty, if my arrows hit to the left (nock right bareshafting ) it's weak.
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Bubbles, I think your understanding that correctly. For a lefty weak spine arrow flies sideways with notch right exactly opposite of right hander
Bjrogg
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Yep that is correct bubby. Pappy