Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Stefan on January 17, 2017, 03:58:33 pm
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Hi All,
I found a howard hill bow up for sale but i am not sure if its real/a bow he signed/a bow he used. Maybe you could give me some info?
There is also a letter but nothing that links the bow to the letter. Would love to get some info. 65# is to much for me...but this bow has got my attention.
More pics are coming...
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More pics, is it a genuine Howard Hill bow, was it made by him or for him?
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More pics...
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Weather or not it was the bow HH built or shot it's a nice looking bow and the letters where nice to read. Thanks for posting this.
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Can you show a close up of the back? Does the bow appear to be laminated bamboo?
I would say it's a Hill bow but whether it's the one or even one of several used in the movie would be hard to prove.
You can find pics of Hill and Flynn on the set of Robin Hood and oddly Hill can be seen drawing a bamboo backed bow with prominent nodes on the back which of course stands out to any ELB enthusiast.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Howrd+Hill+and+Errol+Flynn&view=detailv2&&id=7E055AD052609ABB131792C994775442764D4B29&selectedIndex=5&ccid=2aLRwBEg&simid=607999299767635026&thid=OIP.Md9a2d1c01120bb0f317bd04c6be7ac2eH0&ajaxhist=0
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Maybe that was Robin Hood's secret ;) ;)
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Cool bow and info. Nice find.
Will you post a side view so we can see the fades and limb lams?
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According to Craig Ekin, author of "Howard Hill, the Man and the Legend," Hill was able to hit the arrow in the target (from close range) but the arrows refused to make that nice end-to-end split. So the studio split an arrow, placed the second arrow in the split and jerked it out with a wire while filming. In the final version that strip of film was run backward so the arrow appeared to split the first one and stick in the target.
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Thanks for the info. I have asked for more pics which i will post. Does anyone have an idea of the value of a howard hill bow? Does the signature seems real?
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Does the bow have a name on it?
If Howard built the bow in his shop and if its a 1944 thats the time frame of his personal shop in Cali he named all the bows he built,so besides his signature there should be a,,"nickname"
If howard used the bow 65# is the bottom of the weigh scale for him but he used alot of bows in exhibition in that weight because of back stop limitations at certain places
1944 he was making bows out of bamboo exclusively,,,is the bow all bamboo?
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A few years ago there was a similar bow for sale in Germany....
The seller wants a lot of money. I think it was something like 100000 €...
At that time I didn't believe that the bow was so valuable.
@Stefan
can you tell us, what the seller want for the bow?
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I would Suggest you contact Bob Burton of Whispering Wind arrows.He has many of Howards personal bows in his collection and has written a book on Howard and his archery equipment.If anyone can verify this bow either way,it would be Mr Burton.
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Thanks for all the replies. I'm still not sure whether to jump on this offer.
@ Green Mountain Man, the bow does not have any writing on its besides 'Howard Hill', It looks to me the belly doenst consist of bamboo, Seller doesn't have a lot of information on this bow
@ Andrew, he's asking towards € 1000 (a bit over 1000 usd), is that resonable?
More pics below
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Could the marks on the limbs just past the fades be from a quiver?
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Looks like bamboo to me. You can see sanded off nodes on the belly. Do you have an idea what the back is? It looks like it wraps around the fades on the side. Must be fabric of some sort.
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@Stefan
1000 € is for collectors a price, that is ok, just if it is a bow from Howard Hill.
I don't believe that the bow is the "movie star" as described, but she is a fine piece of her time...
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I know nothing about this kind of thing but the signature sort of bothers me. It's over top of those "wraps' that Pat is asking about. If the wraps were on there from day one he would have put the signature somewhere else. If the wraps were added later I don't think the signature would be that clear and clean. It looks like the signature was added after the wraps were removed. Depending, of course, on what those wrap marks actually are. It's sure a nice looking bow and looks like bamboo to me.
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Those marks on the inner limbs look like they are from a bow quiver
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Id take Traxx's advise and contact a Hill collector
All ive read,,,,please take it for what its worth,there is alot wrote on Mr Hill,,his personal bows from that time frame were mostly all bamboo to the point he built his own machine to flaten the Japanese boken he prefered and nicknamed every bow he built from something that had happened in the process of making said bow
Like,,,"Lighting",cause the bow was fast on test shots he took out back of his shop into a sand pile
If i had to guess those marks look to me as if at one point someone had a tape on sight on the bow as was common in the 40/50s
To close for a quiver and bow quivers were not common till the very late 50s early 60s(thank you papa Bear) ;D
Id say and its only a guess it was a Howard Hill made bow,but for a customer not for himself
That said he made bows for alot of famous folks ya never know who it could of been made for
If this bow interests you id hit the ole interweb and try contacting a collector
A Hill made bow from his hollywood shop in that time frame is a peice of history nomatter the owner/shooter and would make a great show peice in any collection,its just a matter of price
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Found this quote buried in an old tradgang thread. This seems to indicate accurately the construction of the bow. Particularly the backing and "side plates" of vulcanized fiber. The handle does look like lemonwood.
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Here are John's thoughts: "No one knows for sure when he [Hill] started using bamboo. If you read Don Carson who spent time with Hill in Florida and the early days in California - there is no mention of it until he settled in Cal. I have a bow he made for Cy Johnson of three bamboo lams - the handle of yew and lemonwood with backing and side plates of vulcanized fiber which he used right up until he got Eicholz glass after WWII."
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I had to do a Google search of "vulcanized fiber" and found it's used for, among other things, cymbal and snare drum cases. This really intrigues me, as the material on those cases is quite thin, yet they protect the instruments pretty well. Probably not suitable for this site, but it would be fun to try to get a hold of some longer lengths of this material to use as a bow backing to see how it compares to cloth, rawhide, sinew, hickory/boo, and fg.
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You can find lots of mention of fiber backing in old literature from that era. It was very common back then.
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I worked for a surveyor when in my late 20s that knew hill personally . He has 2 early hill personal bows.
All personal hill bows as well as later production bows were all backed with split bamboo.I owned 2 hill bows seen 2 others my survay friend had. And that's is writing and signature. If he built it for himself I was told he gave it a nick name all his bows. Only later on in production motels did he give his bows motel names. like big five, tempo and others.
I've read ( he wrote) that all his movie shots were done with his favorite bow he call grandpa. But singure looks good to me.
No matter its his and it worth $1000s. I sold on of mine for 1700.00 in 88. The other was stolen along with 49 other bows. Never found one of them.
If it is his worth 10 times that to a hill fan. CaLL JERRY HILL HE'LL FELL YOU IN. HE STILL MAKES BOWS UNDER HOWARDS NAME. Howard taught him to shoot and hunt.
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Short update, the seller accept my offer. I still need to go and take a look at this bow. Like you recommended, I contacted Bob Burton, I hope he won't mind that I posted his reaction:
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From the Pic's it certainly looks like a bow that Howard could have made. Without having the bow in my hand it is difficult to say for sure. Did Howard use this bow himself, is impossible to say without provenance from a reliable source. It has been a long time since I viewed the movie Robin Hood and do not recall if the bow used had side plates. The problem with bows like this is there so many scams out their, unless you had a detailed picture of Howard shooting it, or undeniable provenance that he did use it. Then its a shot in the dark.
A bow similar to that sold several years ago that had provenance that it was made by Howard, I knew the buyer and about four months later the same bow came up for sale again in Europe and I knew the buyer was not selling it. So you need to be very careful.
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Does anyone have any addiontional info? And more importanty, I am only buying the bow if its in shooting condition. Is it save to draw back a bow that is made in de 1940''. If anyone has the contact details od Jerry Hill or an other expert I would very much like to get in touch/addtional info.
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I would concur with Bobs advice in not stringing and shooting the bow.
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Makes you wonder if the bow was just used in the movie by someone else. The pictures of Howard shooting in the movie show a light colored bow with no signs of the wrap around dark backing.
Interestingly this bow can be found for sale several times through the years on various forums.
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It would be tremendous if that was one of the arcs that used howard hill in one of its presentations.
Congratulations
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Hi PatM, I als found this bow a several times on the web. On youtube/bowsite, it has me worried. The seller states that he has had the bow for 15 years now and bought it from the previous german to owner. Jerry Hill states that it could be a scam...
I am still able to pass on the bow...think I gonna ask the seller to answer some critical questions.
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Smells a bit fishy to me if this bow or one similar has been sold a few times....to somebody who knows what they are doing it wouldn't be difficult to make a few of these and sell them....fairly easy to age new items and a signature means nothing. It could be genuine but it could also be somebody trying to pull a fast one..at 1000+$ each it would be tempting for some!
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I've got 3 of Robin Hood's original bows if anyone wants one at £1000 a time >:D
Del
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I would think it might be '"just" a Howard Hill bow and not one with any special story attached to it.
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I've got 3 of Robin Hood's original bows if anyone wants one at £1000 a time >:D
Del
Just three?
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I've got 3 of Robin Hood's original bows if anyone wants one at £1000 a time >:D
Del
Just three?
The others aren't finished yet ::)
Del
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LOL! >:D 8)
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Found that pretty funny myself. :laugh:
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I've got 3 of Robin Hood's original bows if anyone wants one at £1000 a time >:D
Del
Just three?
The others aren't finished yet ::)
Del
Very good Del :)
Send them to me to get a verification document when you are done.
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Now that's funny Del :laugh: ! Bob
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Very cool find if it is authentic. :) One thing you can never say about Del is that he has no sense of humor , sometime a little warped maybe but still funny. ;) :D :D
Pappy
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Hi all,
The seller of this bow wasn't able to give my answers to simple questions, I had a bad feeling about this. The seller sold the bow to a different buyer. I might just build a HH style bow for myself :-)
Thank you very much for the helpfull replies!