Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Wolf Watcher on January 17, 2017, 08:26:53 pm
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Have been in contact with Hawk and Red Hawk and they are going to try to attend this year's Classic. As I have said before I don't know any two walk and stalk bow hunters better than these two fellows. Mike tells me he has a huge horse trailer with living Quarters big enough for both of them and their wives. Red Hawk is a Souix Medicine man that I am sure you will enjoy meeting. I would recommend you have Hawk give a hawk and knife throwing demonstration. Since I will not be able to attend I am asking if there is anything you might want me to make and send for the raffle? Red Hawk lives in Penn. and has relatives in Tenn. Joe
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That is great news Joe, Love to see Hawk again and meet Red Hawk. What part of Tennessee dose his people live ? I so wished you could make it back, you will be missed for sure, hope it is just scheduling conflicts for you and nothing to serious , like health issues.
Pappy
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I'm excited to hear that! Hawk is already well acquainted with the folks there, but it will be nice to meet Red Hawk show him what we're like. Like Pappy said, we sure will miss you if you don't make it.
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That is exciting news. I'll be looking to talk to Mike much more this time. Be nice to meet Red Hawk in person.
Sorry to read you won't be able to make the trip this year, Joe.
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Red Hawk is a Souix Medicine man
No, he isn't. He's a white man named Robert Hrobak from New Jersey who for a long time claimed to be from the Lenape (Delaware) nation until the real Lenape folks told him to take a hike. He in no way, shape, or form is Sioux (Lakota, Dakota, or Nakota) and does not represent our people in any official or unofficial capacity, nor is he any sort of spiritual leader recognized by any of our people.
He may have something to say about archery that is worthwhile, but if you are attending hoping to meed some medicine man, you're out of luck there. Do yourself a favor and don't support those who misrepresent themselves as traditional native spiritual leaders when they are not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jfqxbfTBcc
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Well Gun Doc.....
Sure there could be.I never said there couldnt be.As a Matter of fact,i never said anything on this thread,until now.
But since you brought it up and me into it by handle,ill say this....
Posted by wolf watcher and in association with Mike Huston,Who do you think it is?
I doubt its Jay Red Hawk,but thats another story now init.
Or were you referring to someone else on here that goes by Traxx?
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Sounds like I have started some kind of serious problem with some here. I have known this man for many years and have been involved with lots of his ceremonies. There are several different tribes in the Sioux nation and wondering if it would be possible for him to be a member of a different tribe? As a Cherokee I know there were several different clans and not all of them knew each other. Joe
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Joe, I think the confusion is about weather Hawk's friend is Jay Redhawk. He is a white man pretending to be a native american and profiting from it. He's also a convicted wife beater. There is a lot of information about him online and most of it isn't very good.
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I am sure he is not Jay Redhawk. I will talk to Mike Hawk Huston to find out where I am confused. If the people at the Classic do not want him to attend I will make sure he knows about it. Joe
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I can assure you,there is no confusion of the two different men by Twinkie Slayer.He is well versed in them both.Jay red Hawk is another man known as Gerard Gesmondi.
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The Problem sits with the Title of "Sioux Medicine Man"
Now,is this a point of confusion?
Is that a title bestowed upon by Wolf Watcher or his interpretation of the man,or is "Red Hawk" making that claim?
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Joe, if you and Hawk are friends with him he must be a good guy and I'm sure he would be welcome at the classic.
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I'm a little confused, the video link twinkie slayer posted at no time did he claim anything about being a medicine man or even that he was a spirit leader of any kind, in fact he kept refering to the lenape as they
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All I can say is that I have since I have known him have thought him a Sioux. This whole thing may be my Bad. I can tell you for certain he has been a good friend of mine and Mike Huston. He is a very skilled primitive hunter and I am happy to call him my friend. I have been present when he preformed several different ceremonies! Joe
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Bob Hrobak and "Jay Redhawk" are two different individuals. Jay is an Italian guy from San Diego named Geraud Gismondi, and he has a rather lengthy criminal history. I don't know of, nor have I implied that Bob Hrobak is a criminal. Whether he is presenting himself as a "Sioux Medicine Man" or if that is someone else's misunderstanding I don't know either, but the fact remains that he's not a Sioux spiritual leader.
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The Problem sits with the Title of "Sioux Medicine Man"
Now,is this a point of confusion?
Is that a title bestowed upon by Wolf Watcher or his interpretation of the man,or is "Red Hawk" making that claim?
Well it seems that somebody jumped the gun by calling a guy out without all the facts
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Ya bubby that happens sometime around here, Joe if he is a friend of yours he is alright in my book and always welcomed, of course I go by a different spiritual leader so probably don't take this as serious as some it seems. ;) as long as someone don't harm me or any of my family/friends the rest he has to answer for his self. :) By the way lets please don't turn this thread into a bashing of some kind , I don't know Red Hawk but I do know Joe and Mike Hawk and they are fine people. :)
Pappy
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Also seems T S has been on PA a while and has all of 7 post, 2 of witch was here and the others calling folks out, wished you would get a life. ::) >:(
Pappy
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Also seems T S has been on PA a while and has all of 7 post, 2 of witch was here and the others calling folks out, wished you would get a life. ::) >:(
Pappy
Ok :)
But the fact remains that Bob Hrobak is not a Sioux medicine man :)
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It is a very good thing that we have a rule here to not call folks names, because I could think of a choice few to call you, nice version /trouble maker/troll. ::)
Pappy
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If this was a case of "Stolen Valor" or the like,I doubt anyone,would shoot the messenger.
That is exactly how Native people,view those,that appropriate and misrepresent their culture,especially when it is attached to their most sacred positions.
In fact,there are federal laws regarding such issues and Native people have organizations,that retain legal council,to combat,these cases.
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If this was a case of "Stolen Valor" or the like,I doubt anyone,would shoot the messenger.
That is exactly how Native people,view those,that appropriate and misrepresent their culture,especially when it is attached to their most sacred positions.
In fact,there are federal laws regarding such issues and Native people have organizations,that retain legal council,to combat,these cases.
There has to be proof and not just accusations 😉
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I can Assure you,that Twinkie Slayer,is not just some random, shoot from the hip kind of Guy.
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...and this is what Joe and I were talking about when he said the complexion of this site has changed over the years. Thanks Pappy for callin a spade a spade. Unfortunately, this appears to be pearls before swine. :(
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...and this is what Joe and I were talking about when he said the complexion of this site has changed over the years. Thanks Pappy for callin a spade a spade. Unfortunately, this appears to be pearls before swine. :(
Lol thats a great one Scott😅
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callin a spade a spade
not quite sure about that my self. It's not easy to post without coming across differently to different readers.
after re-reading TS post, I do believe that he is speaking to the fact of who does, or rather, who does not represent his people. I don't see the intent to troll, but I do see the intent to clarify.
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callin a spade a spade
not quite sure about that my self. It's not easy to post without coming across differently to different readers.
after re-reading TS post, I do believe that he is speaking to the fact of who does, or rather, who does not represent his people. I don't see the intent to troll, but I do see the intent to clarify.
[/quote
But do you see any proof?]
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But do you see any proof?
I dunno what you would accept as "proof", Bubby. but I do read post 15 as another attempt to clarify.
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Bubby....
I dont believe you understand what is involved in becoming a Medicine Person and having that title bestowed upon someone entails.Now, make it Tribe Specific and that narrows it down even further.It is a close nit community and is easily verifiable,especially,to someone,who grew up in that life and those circles.
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But do you see any proof?
I dunno what you would accept as "proof", Bubby. but I do read post 15 as another attempt to clarify.
Willie, all i know is what has actually been posted, and ts posted a link to a video as proof i guess but there was nothing about medicine men or spirit leaders . Look it's pretty simpleposr a clipping from a paper or something, i only take peoples word when i know them and trust them, you know put up or shut up
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Just to play the advocating devil here since everyone is arguing about a person that may or may not be one of two other people.
1) Wolf is the only person so far that has made the claim that Red Hawk was a Sioux Medicine Man. That could have just been a mistake.
2) Is this Red Hawk even one of the other two mentioned? I mean as someone else said there can be more than one Red Hawk in the world. (or two in this case)
3) Archery is fun.
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Well that makes me and everybody outside the 27 Posse .....lets see swine? , trolls?, troublemakers?, spades? Personally, I'm glad to know and be friends with the Native American members that I have met. I'm with you Traxx and twinkie_slayer, you guys have class, sirs !!!
rich
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you know put up or shut up
I see now that you are still asking for proof about TS's original claims.
My previous post was about him being called a troll. I cannot prove an unkown, I'm just cutting the guy some slack because his post is not perfect english.
Lighten -up some, eh?
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Please pass the popcorn O:)
Zuma
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Willie, I don't want to get into a drawn out deal over this, but unless i miss counted post 15 was from wolf walker, twinkies posts seemed to be in as good of english as most everyone on the site, and it still seems a word vs word and if so whatever man, have yourself a great evening Willie
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sorry, reply 15
evenin' to you too, Bubby
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Just to play the advocating devil here since everyone is arguing about a person that may or may not be one of two other people.
1) Wolf is the only person so far that has made the claim that Red Hawk was a Sioux Medicine Man. That could have just been a mistake.
2) Is this Red Hawk even one of the other two mentioned? I mean as someone else said there can be more than one Red Hawk in the world. (or two in this case)
3) Archery is fun.
I've known Rick for a long time and like Traxx said, he's very knowledgeable when it comes to the Sioux Nation. Question #1 is all Rick was stating, "He is not a Sioux Medicine Man".
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All you people that are upset should listen to this: Robert Red Hawk has never told me he was a Sioux Medicine Man. I am the one who posted that claim because I have thought he was. As I said before he has nothing to do with my unfortunate claim. My mistake to not call and ask him before I posted that claim. I have known him for 14 years and have known him to be a good person. If you want to chastise some one My Name Is Joe York. I am a Cherokee. I am very sorry for causing all the furor and if you cannot except my mistake then I will be happy to withdraw from the PA site. Joe
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Well there.Its settled. :)
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And i dont think anyone is asking or expecting you to leave over this.
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Joe you are good and no reason to leave the site, you are well respected here
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Good on you Joe. A totally honest mis- understanding. That's all it is folks.
I know I have been there. There is certainly no reason for you to even think
about hanging up your hat Joe. We likes you :)
Zuma
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Well there you go. A little logic goes a long way.
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Thanks Joe. Enough said. :)
Pappy
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Well there.Its settled. :)
Not quite settled... I posted what I did because I was convinced that Traxx and twinkie-slayer were one and the same person. I have it on good authority that this is not the case. My humblest apologies to you Traxx. Josh
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Same here Josh, sorry if I offended anyone, Like any family I know we have a squabble now and then, then just move on. :)
Pappy
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Lost here seems to be the fact that an attack was made on Joe's character. Unsolicited and unrepented. I'm glad it's over, but I'm still deeply disappointed in the trend.
Rich, I never called you or anyone a swine. It's an old literary expression that refers to people who have been given advise, totally ignored. Joe is my friend and I have no intention of leaving him alone in this matter. I am part Blackfoot and part Chippewa. Joe's reference was an honest attempt to describe his friend by means of an honorary title. It was not intended to establish a claim or start an argument. His error would be no greater by calling me a bowyer (I am an amateur at best.)
Joe simply wanted to inform us (Classic attendees) that 2 good friends of his were planning a trip down to Tennessee this year. I, for one, am still looking forward to that meeting and don't see how that involves all of Sioux nation and their etiquette. That's the take away. Thank you Joe.
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Well said Scoot, and I by no means blaming Joe for anything and yes any friends of His I consider a friend of mine and are always welcome at my place. :)
Pappy
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No worries Gun Doc
I actually kind of got a kick out of it. :)
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Gosh, I missed all this? At any rate, just so you all know; there are people with the last name Red Hawk on my reservation but of no relation to the two aforementioned. Just saying.
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All you people that are upset should listen to this: Robert Red Hawk has never told me he was a Sioux Medicine Man. I am the one who posted that claim because I have thought he was. As I said before he has nothing to do with my unfortunate claim. My mistake to not call and ask him before I posted that claim. I have known him for 14 years and have known him to be a good person. If you want to chastise some one My Name Is Joe York. I am a Cherokee. I am very sorry for causing all the furor and if you cannot except my mistake then I will be happy to withdraw from the PA site. Joe
Thanks for clearing it up. No worries man...
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Rick, try a PM, next time, ???. ::)
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Red hawk is lakota. Twinkie slayer you are the type of person that caused me to leave the site here years ago i am adopted lakota by my uncle florentine Blue Thunder formerly of the rosebud and can assure you that apples like you." White on the inside red on the outside" are the exact reason our people are in the way they are now. Your instant reaction to every post you deem. "Not native enough" really shows your lack of respect for our culture and heritage. Robert Red Hawk is a good man and a spiritual leader among our people as well as a great teacher of the old ways. I know most of the people on here are good honest folks and will share my fire with them anytime but not with you twinkie. To my brothers of the forest miss you all. Ill be writing for PA again soon. But because of the negative people on here of late im staying to the shadows off here most of the time. See you all at the classic. Except for the negative haters your kind had best stay clear of me. HAWK
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Mike, I've met you and respect you and Joe and consider both friends and good people. We need to take this stuff to PM's, doesn't need to be on the site. Or, Rick's on Facebook. Looking forward to seeing you guys at the Classic.
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That is great Hawk , hope you can you can make it again, as for this other stuff, don't think you will see it at my place. ;) :)
Pappy
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You know,Eddie asked that this not be expanded on any further on the forum and i intended to honor that request,until others wouldnt and to make it worse,by another Mod who used it to take a parting shot.So,be that as it may,id like to take an opportunity to tell a little personal story,that coincides with this thread.
My mother was born,of a Native Nation.She was not raised of that Nation and consequently,neither was i.{long Story,that i reserve,for close friends,that care to hear it}I was, a few years later,stripped from my birth mother and adopted by a Non Native family.That Non native family,understood and encouraged me to connect with Native Culture.Now,you have to understand,that at this time,being Native was not as highly looked upon and cool,as it is today and there was some negative connotations associated with them allowing me to do so.We befriended a family who were Native and from a different nation,than i was from.I grew up with this family and their traditions and learned much of their culture from them.It eventually resulted in them taking me on as a relative and treating me as such,traditionally and by Ceremony.The boys called me Brother and the parents called me son.I was even asked to honor them at the funeral of the father,by conducting some of the traditional ceremony.I have taught some of the traditions to subsequent generations of people of that nation,as was requested by the Patriarch of that family.Within all this,i do not nor will i ever,consider myself,of that nation and would never profess otherwise.I was adopted to that Particular Family as a member of that family and not the nation from which they belonged by birth and blood.I think you will find that to be a common attitude and belief among most Native Nations.The Non Native family that i was adopted into,were of Serious Highland Scottish heritage and i never would profess to be of that nation either,even though i consider those people family.
I later learned of my Native culture through association with others of that Nation,and would still never be so bold as to consider myself a spokesman of the people and their culture,other than in an educational capacity and i would never be so bold as to lecture and criticize a member of that Nation as to how they should act or behave,regarding their cultural tradition,that is theirs by birth and blood.
Mike.....,Since you are fond of using Native slang terms,you may want to ask around about the meaning of Twinkie.Trust me,it isnt in reference to the delicious hostess cakes.
Ps....
My mother was Born Oglala Oyate.
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Traxx,
I'll ask,
What is the meaning of twinkie?
I hope it is not a racial slur.
Kevin
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It is a relief to say that I have learned that Twinkie IS NOT a racial slur.
My apologies to anyone who might have taken offense by my asking.
Kevin
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Well said Traxx.
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Twinkie, I like that. Up here we call them Apples, red on the outside and white on the inside
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Speaking for myself, I've seen, heard and dealt with enough racially divisive BS in the last few months to last 3 lifetimes. I really don't want to see it here. The original misunderstanding has been cleared up. Let it go. Josh
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Marc,
Not the same thing
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To prevent any future onslaught of Pm's,i will post this . ;D
http://nativenewsnetwork.posthaven.com/what-is-a-twinkie-cultural-appropriation
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And in the event,that someone is not quite sure if they fall into this definition or category,have a look at this....
http://nativenewsnetwork.posthaven.com/what-is-a-twinkie-cultural-appropriation
:o :)
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Sorry,for the repeat on the second one. :-[
http://nativeamericanindian.blogspot.com/
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One particular example,on this list,brings to mind a funny story.
A buddy of mine,who those of you on this thread,now know as Twinkie Slayer,came to visit me.The wife had a big feast planned for the occasion and was set to Grill some meat for it.The Damn propane bottle was empty.So i grab the bottle and throw it in the pickup to head to the local 7/11 for an exchange.Ole Twinkie Slayer jumps in the ride and off we go.He proceeds to start to light up a cig and goes to roll the window down.Instantly he whips his head around and asks,Does this window work?
Does this window work......Damn NDN.
You think hes rode in a few rez rockets before?LOL
Well,I got a kick out of it.Guess ya had ta be there. :)
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So the great Twinkie and his sidekick Traxx ride again. Its been a while since you two stirred up a crap storm. I believe I was your target the last go round. That was fun times! My feelings have healed since, but I'm a changed man as a result.
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Pearly.....
How the heck are ya!
First off,im nobodys side kick.Im my own man,who makes my own decisions.
Second off..Ride again? I never stopped riding.I constantly ride herd on those who misrepresent.
You seem to have a passion for your craft and from what i can see,you have developed your craft well.I applaud that.I just dont always appreciate your presentation .
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Hey wolf watcher, I think anything you might make for the raffle at the classic would be highly prized. I know of no one who knows you from the classic that doesn't feel blessed to have met you. Your canteens are popular, there where a hundred or more tickets in the can for the pipe you made last year. 😉 Your work is top notch and you are a highly respected elder at the classic. I hope this thread has not soured your want to provide for the raffle. My self I'd like to win a canteen with a hand on it, cave painting style with an arrow head in the palm, but that's just me putting out my wish list. You will be missed by many at the Classic this year. Hope you're having a gooder, dpg AHO
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re we done yet? ??? ::)
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Yep Eddie I think we are done, Hope Mike and Red Hawk can make it and really wished Joe could but understand it is a bad time of year with the live stock he cares for to leave his sweet wife with all the chores. Mike said they were planning on it so all is good. ;) :) :) :)
Pappy
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I keep looking for the "like" button. 😃 Y'all have a gooder, dp
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Hey, this threads starting to turn around!
Too bad Joe won't be there, I spoke with him once at the classic, I liked him, the kind of man I can respect.
Hope to meet Mike and Red Hawk.
It'd be nice to see Pearly there again also!
Kevin
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Ya Kevin maybe someday Pearl will wander back down south.
Pappy
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When my life allows it again, you can bet your butt I'll be back down there.
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Hope it's sooner than later, you're quickly losing ur camping spot! >:D
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Sorry,for the repeat on the second one. :-[
http://nativeamericanindian.blogspot.com/
Lol, that was great. Being a serious follower (for lack of a better word) of the old northern European gods I recognize a lot of the same themes regarding the new age crowd. I mean can you imagine the people who's only knowledge of your gods is from Marvel Comics, lol, well I guess you probably can!
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Hope it's sooner than later, you're quickly losing ur camping spot! >:D
I'll lobby pappy for the VIP suite in his cabin :) :) :) : ):) :)
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Haha! That'll never happen. The cabin is only reserved for the house broken! >:D
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Pearly, becareful what you wish for, that cabin is chuck full of sharp pointy things hangin everywhere, You could bleed out just trying to get to the bathroom ;D :o Seriously it was a privilege to spend a night in Pappy's cabin, a real museum an a great host on the night after they had just about all gone. ;D Bob
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Haha! That'll never happen. The cabin is only reserved for the house broken! >:D
HA!
I just spit coffee through my nose!
Pearly could always sleep with Pappys "Girls"
Kevin
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Pearly, becareful what you wish for, that cabin is chuck full of sharp pointy things hangin everywhere, You could bleed out just trying to get to the bathroom ;D :o Seriously it was a privilege to spend a night in Pappy's cabin, a real museum an a great host on the night after they had just about all gone. ;D Bob
I contributed to that museum the last and only time I was down!
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Haha! That'll never happen. The cabin is only reserved for the house broken! >:D
HA!
I just spit coffee through my nose!
Pearly could always sleep with Pappys "Girls"
Kevin
I love puppies! As long as I have a flat spot to pass out on, I'm good.
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The first time I slept there I curled up on the kitchen floor and got stepped on when someone, I think Jess's Dad, Drew went outside in the middle of the nite to relieve himself.
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You would be welcome anytime Pearl, in the cabin or with the girls, they have both been fixed by the way. ;) :) Ya Eddie I remember that, don't think you even moved. ;) :) Had a lot of good time in that old cabin and had a lot of very good friends stay there with me. :)
Pappy
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I'll always remember having the privilege to stay upstairs once during the IBO shoot. Sure was a luxury to have a bed and a/c in the summer!
I'm looking forward to this year's Classic more than I ever have. Angie should be riding with me again and I'll be approaching it all differently this year. Already very excited to really spending time with my friends and making new ones. :)
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A final note about adoption. I'm posting this because the general, non-native public is mostly uninformed about what this means and mostly misunderstand its meaning.
Enrolled tribal membership is based strictly on lineage. NO ONE is "adopted" in to a tribe. Adoption is a personal thing between individuals or families, and in no way, shape or form confers any tribal standing whatsoever. If a Lakota, or Shoshone, or Arapaho or whoever, adopts a non-native, it is a statement of a personal relationship, not a tribal one, and does not make the adoptee a "Lakota" or whatever.
Unfortunately, there are a few sellouts among various Nations who cultivate followings of nonnative people for profit, and "adoption" is one of the hooks that is used. Some of these "plastic shamans" set up shop in Europe, often in Germany and Italy and make some pretty decent bank hornswoggling the unaware.
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TS: Your are lucky I am not a moderator or you would be banned from the PA. Joe
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Can't wait for it Steve. Classic will be here before ya know it and those are some good times! Was Angie there last year and I missed it? If so, I'll have to make sure I meet her this year. Must be a special woman to put up with you. >:D
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Joe, sorry you won't be able to make the Classic this year. I enjoyed our talks on your last visit.
Parnell, I bet this year will be your best Classic ever. Good news on your wife making the trip with you.
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And with Hawk there we gonna have some new blood (literally) in the pit. :o
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Joe you can call him Rick, its less confusing.
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TS: Your are lucky I am not a moderator or you would be banned from the PA. Joe
Was there something I said that you disagree with?
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Can't wait for it Steve. Classic will be here before ya know it and those are some good times! Was Angie there last year and I missed it? If so, I'll have to make sure I meet her this year. Must be a special woman to put up with you. >:D
Angie made '13 & '14 with me, Scott. She had a great time at both but was hurting with pain pretty bad '14 and had been staying at the hotel. She should be ready to go this year. I suspect she'll even shoot the course, which I'm looking forward to.
You'll hear her called Roo - the Rooster by some of the guys who met her. She's fun and likes a joke. :)
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I believe I had the pleasure of meeting the Mrs. at the '13 event, Steve-O. Glad to hear she is getting back to full tilt. :)
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TS: Your are lucky I am not a moderator or you would be banned from the PA. Joe
Was there something I said that you disagree with?
At a guess , it's more to the point that you contribute nothing to this forum but hate and discontent. Since you have transitioned primarily to manufacturing glass bows rather than crafting primitive equipment, it is unlikely that you will contribute anything positive. Josh
I have not directed a personal attack towards anyone. I have posted information that perhaps rubs some people the wrong way, but it is in no way personal. Cultural appropriation is a serious issue for our people...it is, quite frankly, theft. That's what you call it when someone takes without permission.
Glass bows? I have never made one in my life. I own a few, and enjoy shooting them, but no, I don't build them.
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Gun Doc.....
Are you experiencing identity confusion again? ;)
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I thought this was over with but I guess not.
A few years ago, Coowachobee,Traxx and Twinkie Slayer, stirred up another storm and it got ugly. I contacted them privately and suggested instead of just making statements and stirring the you know what, how about educating the Non-Natives to what it means in the different tribes to make statements and claims if you ar not a registered NDN. Well, these guys are trying to do what I asked in the past but all it seems to be doing is throwing more insults towards them.
There was an announcement issued and a response with some truthful questions. A lot of bad mouthing, a retraction, Some cultural education, more bad mouthing, So, what is the end goal? ???
You can still be friends with people but it's really nice to know who they really are. If you do, then it's a lot easier to know how much you can trust and get know each other.
I've practiced the same style of Japanese karate for over forty years but it doesn't make me Japanese or Samurai.
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I'm going to lock this thread, for now.
Quite frankly I didn't really see anything wrong with Rick's posts and kind of understand where he is coming from. We have sort of the same problem up here and it can be very annoying. Even though I have native blood I don't really follow the path and I have respect for those that do especially those that try to educate. It is no doubt a hard and thankless endeavor.
Well look at that, I forgot to lock the darn topic ::)
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Unfortunately, it's too little, too late. We have likely already lost the faith of a true elder.
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I have respect for those that do especially those that try to educate. It is no doubt a hard and thankless endeavor.
and easily misunderstood
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Hey Joe
Just to try and give a bit of context. I know you are not too happy with the Gray Wolves killing off all the Elk out where you are and if you could would kill them all. From Rick and Todd's perspective the Twinkies are Wolves and their traditions and teachings are the Elk. How do you think they feel?