Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Mo_coon-catcher on February 14, 2017, 02:20:24 pm
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I finally decided to take the time to start on a bow the the auction at MoJam. I'm making it out of the stave of ERC I took last summer. I got it roughed out to a tip to tip length of 62", 1 3/4" wide for 12" past the fades then tapering to 1/2" tips. The handle is 1 1/8" wide for 4" with 3" fades. I decrowned the back since it had a lot of curve, making a flat about 1 3/8" wide. There should still be a good splash of color on the belly when all done. I sealed the back with TB 3 for now so it won't check to back while I let some moisture drop inside for a week or so before I have time to floor tiller and long string it before applying a heavy layer of sinew. At the moment there is 3 1/8" of reflex. I'm thinking of an end goal of 50# at 29". I'm hoping to cover the back with birch bark to seal the sinew when finished. I think I've got enough sinew left from the last one for a thin coat over the entire thing. While the first later dries I'll order some more and get it processes.
I'll keep updating on here as I make progress.
Kyle
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I bet it'll be a bid magnet! -OneBow
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I'm looking forward to seeing this one built... you know I love the MoJam auction... :) ;D
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After a couple weeks drying inside, the stave has 5" of reflex now. And I still have to sinew it. Anyone have any idea of how much reflex a sinew backed ERC can handle? I feel like I'll be looking at 6"+ after a healthy layer of sinew.
Kyle
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I'm not trying to throw water on your idea or effort here really.It's a very nice genuine gesture.I made a heavily sinewed 1.75" wide R/D 64" with an 8" handle and 6" of reflex from some trunk wood once.All heartwood.It broke right at 26".Looked good till then.The sinew delaminated the wood.If you heavily sinew it I'm almost sure you'll have practically all sapwood left from tillering in the limbs.I've heard that will work yet too but never have done that myself.
From your statement I gather your concerned about the over amount of reflex already.Understandable since you decrowned it some.Taming that down to at least half or less yet even flat just with retro bent tips of 2" before sinewing would be my reccomendation.Steaming in a whole lot deflex into the center foot since it's roughed out already would be a start.I did that with mine with no problems of cracking from drying etc. but then I put more reflex in the outer limbs to to compensate and I think that was my downfall.If your handle is wide enough yet a bendy handle type bow might handle that a lot better especially wanting a 29" draw from it.I would'nt do that with yours after deflexing it.I've heard branch wood is better for a bow out of red cedar though but I would'nt bet my life on it.
Maybe you've had better experiences with red cedar.That's just my take on this one.
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Bob...Are you the auctioneer at that event?
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This one is already set up for a bbendy handle since it only was 3/4" thick once cleaned up. I can probably scale back te drae length a bit. I wanted to be sure as many people as possible could shoot it that wanted. But a 27" draw would probably be more safe and hit a majority of people's draw lengths. this is trunk wood from a sapling and is mostly sapwoodZ I'm hoping there ailk still be a splash of heart wood when finished tillering. If it holds its going in the auction. Otherwise I'll have seen what I can make ERC do.
Kyle
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Great,My mistake I did'nt realize it was going to be a bendy handle bow.I'll be watching here though if you show the progess along.I've got a 6" branch here with a good 3" of heartwood in it around 60" long.Figured to band saw it in half.
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It's already up to 6 3/8" of reflex and I still have to add more sinew to fill some gaps. This stave almost worries me with how much reflex it has. oh well, it'll make a fun one to tiller.
Kyle
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Bob...Are you the auctioneer at that event?
Bob is one of the "hardcore" bidders.. ;)
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no, I'm not the auctioneer, but I do love to bid... can't wait to see this bow some more...
(-P
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I'll be looking forward to seeing this one. I'm working on a bow for the auction to. It won't be cedar though. :BB
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Dang! Now I really can't wait for mojam!
Kyle, I hope you are wearing your safety glasses.
I need more pictures, unpacking boxes is not that much fun.
Patrick
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Dave, remember I shoot 50#@27"... (SH) I've been wanting to get one of your nice bows for a long time... my Marley bow is just a little too small for hunting... ;D
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Dave, remember I shoot 50#@27"... (SH) I've been wanting to get one of your nice bows for a long time... my Marley bow is just a little too small for hunting... ;D
Bob, you and I may have to argue over that bow. 50@27 is my stats as well!
Patrick
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It's already up to 6 3/8" of reflex and I still have to add more sinew to fill some gaps. This stave almost worries me with how much reflex it has. oh well, it'll make a fun one to tiller.
Kyle
pictures ?????? (-P
Patrick- let the bidding begin... >:D
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I'm finally starting to tiller. It's starting with 5 1/4" of reflex. That sknew REALLY atiffened up this piece of wood. I had it floor tillered before, and after I had to remove a bunch of wood just to get it bent into a straight position. I'll post updates as I go. Any guesses as to what the final reflex will end at?
Kyle
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BTW, a wasp has called my scale home
Kyle
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That'll be quite the looker, Kyle! Hope it stays together for ya
Am working on an osage toothpick as kids' bow for the auction.
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Watching this one... :BB :BB :BB
-OneBow
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This much reflex is a PITA to brace. I've been floor tillering it back and o still can't get it braced high enough to start pulling it back yet. I'm just after a flat profile at the moment. It felt like I avout cut my hand off between the string and belly wen I pulled back to 5" of reflex with the string tight. I don't know how the hornbow guys do it with all that reflex.
Kyle
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This much reflex is a PITA to brace. I've been floor tillering it back and o still can't get it braced high enough to start pulling it back yet. I'm just after a flat profile at the moment. It felt like I avout cut my hand off between the string and belly wen I pulled back to 5" of reflex with the string tight. I don't know how the hornbow guys do it with all that reflex.
Kyle
I think they use winches, ...and not the kind that carry steins full of Ale to medieval feasting tables. :o >:D :laugh:
OneBow
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I got it pulled back to 25" on the tree at a 6.5" brace where it was pulling about 42#. So it'll be about a 40# bow when done. And probably pick up a bit of weight when winter hits. Then I samded out 95% of the marks and shot about 20 times. There's a little thump. But I atteibute most of that to the tips are still pretty large and ther was about 20" of string hanging off one tips. After pulling 25" on the tree and shooting at 26", it held 2.5" reflex immediately after unstringing. I'm going to try and catch a couple of carp to cover the sinew with, then pick an overlay material that'll go well with the skin. I'll get some tiller pics up tomorrow after I let it rest overnight. I'll see where the tiller sits after letting the ainew pull back a bit.
Kyle
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This much reflex is a PITA to brace. I've been floor tillering it back and o still can't get it braced high enough to start pulling it back yet. I'm just after a flat profile at the moment. It felt like I avout cut my hand off between the string and belly wen I pulled back to 5" of reflex with the string tight. I don't know how the hornbow guys do it with all that reflex.
Kyle
Good to hear you got it braced and bending.Putting the overlays on before tillering works good.I make my string knocks 3/4" in from the tips then use a primitive leather booty stringer out of some clothes line.Some guys use an extra string groove on the top overlay then just use a longer string to brace it.
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That thing was a royal PITA to get to even a low brace starting with 5" of reflex. I couldn't even get the string in until it dropped to about the 50# range. And then one limb was a bit stronger at low brace. To where that one limb would be bent the proper direction, the other would slowly creep back until it got straight, as soon as it hit that point it would jerk into reflex. So when going to a 2-3" brace,each limb would be pointing a different direction. So I evened then up a bit and upped the brace. That kept it I. Place and the limbs were almost even in strength. It almost felt like trying to brace a piece of rubber with how it kept flopping all over the place on its own. Though it went smooth and quick once I finally got it braced.
Kyle
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Hmmmm, 40# draw might just work for an old guy with a wonky shoulder. :OK
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Getting it to a higher brace is important for stability reasons in the beginning with those higher reflexed bows.Like you said then you can evaluate the tiller better and your on your way.Using a good FF string tillering that does'nt stretch so much helps then too.
Ought to be a nice bow.
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I'm thinking about putting down a layer of heavy brown paper over the sinew before putting in the carp skins to help the pattern pop. Thjnk it's worth it? Since it won't take much effort and I have one of those 140' rolls from lowes. I did manage to catch one carp worth skinning yesterday, plus this beautiful young mirror carp. If it was larger it might have ended up on my wall. But it lived to fight another day.
Kyle
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The brown paper won't add anything but excess physical weight. The skins should give plenty of protection to the sinew plus they should look pretty sharp.
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+1 what Pat B said.Cool looking carp too.
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That is looking to be a very pretty bow, and cool looking fish :)
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I've used alcohol dye like leather dye to stain sinew prior to skins put on.It takes a thinner skinned backing to show through nicely.
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I got the tips cleaned up and skins glued in and cleaned up. It took two carp to cover, one side of each fish on each side. I used purple heart for the overlays. It's crazy how much the moisture in the sknew effects the bow. After letting it sit in the hot truck for a couple of days it pulled back to about 5" of reflex after I tillered it out. After gluing in the skins the moisture made it relax down to about 2" of reflex. Once it dries back out I expect to see the 5" again. Before I glued the skins on, I flexed it against my foot and it feels like it was bending more like a 50# bow as opposed to a 40# like it initially tillered it to. Now that all the gluing is done, maybe I can get it dried out and sort of stabilized before MoJam. I'll let it dry a couple weeks, do a tiller check/tweek, then apply the markings and finish. I don't know what to put for a poundage right now if it shifts that mush with humidity. Maybe put it as a +or- whatever weight it shows to be.
But in liking how the Purple Heart and carp skins look on it.
Kyle
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Looks like a flexy sexy quick stick to me.
Even when I know a sinewed bow of mine is cured I still go for the lower end of my poundage settings while tillering.Seems even after 6 months things go on with the bonding process of glue and sinew to fortify the poundage.I hate to retiller bows with finish on them.
Nowadays I'll just write 48 to 50 pounds in that range.Not just one paticular number.
After a 6 to 8 hour bracing the poundage can be just slightly lower then in the beginning shooting but not much to notice really.Letting them set in a warm enviornment or even the sun gets them returning very quickly.It's just like they are alive,Pretty cool really!!!
Nice looking bow there with your combinations of overlays and skins.
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That looks pretty dangerous cool!
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Gonna be another interesting auction!
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I will put a bid or two on it.
Can't wait to see it.
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Now those aren't Glass Carps are they? We don't go for none of that fibrous Glass Carp backings here on PA you know!!! ;)
OneBow
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Not to worry, no fibrousy carp on this one.(I hid the fibers under then carp, don't tell anyone).
I got it out back on the tree a minute ago. I sanded one limb a bit with 80 grit to even things out a bit. Then just excercised it back to 27" again where it was pulling 45#. So it gained 5# while drying after putting yge carp skins one it started with 4.5" of reflex before going on the tree and after about 20-30 pulls to 27" it unstrung with 2.5" of reflex and has already gained an inch back in the time it has taken to type to this point. Now to make a string for it, shoot it a ton and start on the finish work.
The one limb that I designated the lower (left side on tree) has about 1" more reflex than the other. The unbraced picture is right after taking the string off. And I expect it to eventually recover to te full 4.5" reflex after a bit. So how does it look? Any little tweaks you all can see?
Kyle
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Its kinda hard for me to tell kyle. I love the shape you are going for though! Is there any way you could get a full draw pic with you drawing it by hand? And a braced photo without your tillering tree in the background?
Patrick
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Here us go. Sorry about holding the bow at a downward angle. I didn't realize I was holding that low and my cameraman was in a hurry. In the picture it is drawn to 26". So how's it look in hand? It pulls back smooth and even. Don't know how it shoots now with the tips lightened a bunch and the carp skins on, compared to how it shot while still a bit rough. Even with heavier tips and a roller string it shot well, quick with a slight thunp as the arrow left.
Kyle
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Well, I've looked at up several times. I think your bottom limb looks out of time with the upper limb. Looks like its stiff from the handle down about 6 to 8 inches. But in your half draw pic the bottom limb looks to have a hinge. But in the full draw the outer third is bending.
That is what I see bud.
Patrick
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I agree. I noticed the same things when I studied the pictures myself. I think a good sanding starting at 80 grit and working back to 320 should bring it around on that inner portion. I'm not sure about the outer. I might hit it with 120 on finer. I think a little wouldn't hirt but won't need much. I doubt it'll lose much weight doing that either. It's sort of wierd to me that it looks a bit worse at 1/2 draw than it does at full draw.
Kyle
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Stiff inner third on the lower limb, yup
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I got the tiller touched up and evened out till th arrows would leave without a parting twang. All the finish is on and I'm working in the last couple details. A leather arrow pass on eachc side and a leather lace handle wrap.
Kyle
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The wraps are done and letting some glue dry that I put on to keep it from unraveling. I'll be down to marshal with it Friday night after I get off work at at 4. Then I'll be playing all day saturday.
Kyle
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A buddy and I chrinographed it today with the 600gr arrows I have on hand. Wth a 42-45# draw in this humidity. It shot a consistent 130 fps give or take one or two either way. Not great, but not bad considering arrow weight and the high humidity with the ainew backing.
Kyle