Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: jeffp51 on May 17, 2017, 11:51:57 pm

Title: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: jeffp51 on May 17, 2017, 11:51:57 pm
My arrows hit right where I am looking--if I look at the broad side of a barn.  Can you see anything in my form that might explain it?  Here is a video with 15 shots from the side and the rear.  I try to inhale as I draw, and exhale on the release.  video should play if you take the spaces out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tjReC6iEBM&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: Pat B on May 18, 2017, 09:15:10 am
I can't get your link to work. Generally youtube  links are acceptable here so post it directly.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: jeffp51 on May 18, 2017, 10:29:29 am
Try it now
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: Pat B on May 18, 2017, 10:38:42 am
Jeff, your form looks pretty good. Is your release smooth? Are you looking at the target or just a spot on the target where the arrow will go. Picking a spot and concentrating on that makes the arrow go there. Looking at the target you'll hit the target but not necessarily the spot.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: jeffp51 on May 18, 2017, 11:02:05 am
I concentrate on the smallest point I can see. My hand usually stays on my face when I release. If I shoot 5 arrows, one usually goes wide of the target, one is close to my aiming point, and the other three hit my 2-foot target somewhere. I miss left more than I miss right.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: TrevorM on May 18, 2017, 11:07:18 am
Are you hitting your arm guard? That could be messing you up.

You didn't show the target after, are they just all over or do they tend to go left/right?
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: DC on May 18, 2017, 11:29:08 am
Something that seems to be helping me(a bit) is the last thing I think about is my bow arm, holding it steady and keeping it pointed at the barn.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: Pat B on May 18, 2017, 12:24:15 pm
Try shooting one arrow then retrieve it and shoot again. I find if I shoot groups the other arrows in the target can break my concentration. When hunting you usually only get one shot.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: jeffp51 on May 18, 2017, 12:38:57 pm
I just shot about 50 arrows.  I noticed that sometimes the arrow spins smoothly into the target (not necessarily where I want it to) and sometimes the nock seems to spiral around--even though it sometimes still goes where I want it to--could this have something to do with my release?

In the video, I am only shooting at about 10 yards, so they look relatively good in the target--although not right on the bulls eye, and not tightly grouped
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: Pat B on May 18, 2017, 12:42:33 pm
Yes and a smooth, consistent release is critical.   ...but do try the one arrow at a time.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: jeffp51 on May 18, 2017, 01:02:31 pm
Any suggestions on how to get a better release?  is it mostly about a secondary anchor point, or is there something else?
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: willie on May 18, 2017, 01:04:23 pm
one thing I noticed in the video is that you seem to be tightening your grip on the bow just before he release.(on a couple of the shots)  do you generally try to shoot with a loose or tight bowhand grip?

you mentioned natural shoot arrows? does one shoot consistently better? pick that for the "one arrow at a time" test

Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on May 18, 2017, 01:19:24 pm
Eye dominance can screw a guy right up. I know of at least a few who switched from righty to lefty and became fine shots.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: jeffp51 on May 18, 2017, 09:10:02 pm
I am left eye dominant, and I shoot right handed, so that could be a factor, but every attempt to shoot left have been disastrous. I wonder how to compensate.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on May 19, 2017, 08:14:31 am
That's your problem. My cousin couldn't even shoot a set-up compound that way. His arrows went all over heck. He switched to lefty and shoots like a pro now. My advice? Get a 25-30# bow and start shooing lefty now. Its a damn tough trick to cheat eye dominance and win.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: willie on May 19, 2017, 12:46:16 pm
before buying a new bow, try putting an eye patch on and see what happens to your groups
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: jeffp51 on May 19, 2017, 08:29:44 pm
the thoughts of trying to re learn how to shoot a bow with my left hand is a pretty depressing thought.  I do have a half-finished bow I could probably retiller to a low weight, and the bow would probably be better for it, but I can't say I am thrilled with the idea. (R
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on May 20, 2017, 07:56:10 am
I don't blame you, but spraying arrows is MUCH less exciting IMO. Spraying arrows could easily chase you away from the hobby in the future.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: Knoll on May 20, 2017, 11:46:02 am
Am left eye dominant also . . . and an "aimer". Have adjusted aim to that fact and can shoot fairly well.

Rear end of arrow gyrating around is possibly result of poor release. Release is important and a challenge to get consistent. Have become believer in regularly getting close to a big target, closing eyes, and shooting while fully concentrating on just 1/2 of elements in the shooting sequence. Yeah, it's not very exciting, but has helped me improve.

Quit shooting before ya get at all fatigued or bored.

Jeff Kavanagh's vids have been helpful to me.

Good Luck!
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: Pat B on May 20, 2017, 11:50:08 am
If you shoot instinctively eye dominance shouldn't be an issue or a problem.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: jeffp51 on May 20, 2017, 03:15:43 pm
I shoot instinctively with both eyes open.  I can see how eye dominance would matter if you are using the point of the arrow to aim,--paralax and all that-- but I don't do that.  I just try to focus on the target.--I would think eye dominance would make your arrows all group in the wrong spot, not spray--Maybe Pearl Drums can explain what is happening.

I notice that my wrist breaks instead of staying straight--that might be what Willie is seeing in "tightening" my grip.  I really like this bow, but it doesn't fit my hand as well as I would like.  The grip is a little bulbous instead of pistol shaped.  It doesn't rest in the webbing of my thumb without holding on a little, the way I would like it to.

What do you do to get a smooth release?  whether I shoot right or left, I think I have to work on that.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: Pat B on May 20, 2017, 06:26:59 pm
I just edited my last reply...."If you shoot instinctively eye dominance shouldn't be an issue or a problem."
 I release as soon as I hit anchor. Don't know how it happens, it just does.  (A)  If I find myself short shooting I'll hold for a second then just relax my draw hand...and it's off.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: H Rhodes on May 20, 2017, 08:34:39 pm
Your form looks good to me.  I did notice that you have a slight tendency to drop your bow arm a little right after the release.  While it is impossible to not have some movement, it might help to give some thought toward improving that.   Good back tension usually leads to your bow hand moving slightly toward the target at the moment of release.  Other than that, I bet your trouble is nothing more than focus.  I find a tiny spot within the spot to shoot at.  Aim small and miss small.  If you aren't pointing your stream at the middle of the bowl, you might end up with yellow puddles on the floor. :laugh:  My attention span usually doesn't lend itself to shoot a bunch of arrows at my best.  I practice till my mind begins to wonder and then I have to quit.  If I am not really tuned into focusing on the spot, I am going to mess with my own confidence - which leads to a host of problems.  Get yourself a real light weight bow that you can really work on form with.  Video yourself with a 25 pounder - that can magnify any issues.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: bradsmith2010 on May 21, 2017, 12:52:27 pm
i dont agree with having to shoot lefty,, two of the best shots I know are left eye dominent and shoot right, my ex wife and Jeffer,, just google him shooting and you will be inspired,,
learning to shoot is a long process,, like playing musical instrument,, takes lots of practice,, and improvment can come slow,,  that being said,, lots of guys can shoot either way,, I made bow for a guy that shot target left and hunted right,,
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: goomba on May 22, 2017, 12:26:55 pm
 I noticed that from the beginning of your draw to the end of your draw
your head is moving 5 to 6 inches to the rear. Keeping the head stationary
throughout the draw may help.
 If you are also shifting some of your weight to the rear
leg during the draw it might affect your balance.
 This may not help at all.....just thought I'd throw it out there.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: nakedfeet on May 22, 2017, 09:04:56 pm
One thing I noticed in your video, and I can't say for sure how much correcting it will help accuracy (but still), is that you draw the bow all the way back, then collapse a slight bit just before you release. Watch the tip of your arrow.

In one motion you draw all the way back, only the very tip of the arrow is visible.  You adjust your anchor slightly, it looks like you're doing it by bringing your face down to the arrow, and while you do that more of the arrow becomes visible past the bow. It's maybe a half-inch to an inch, but what this shows it that you are losing back tension, even if just for a brief moment. You seem to be doing this on every single shot.

This is a lesson that all archers can take from Olympic-style target archers. They often use a very slow draw and a clicker to tell them exactly when to release. They make sure their draw is one continuous motion and that they never lose or reduce back tension.

I've struggled with this in the past. In fact, I still catch myself doing it sometimes, but it's getting better.

So to correct it, try to draw directly to anchor. Don't draw back then adjust. Don't lose or reduce back tension at any time. If you can hold it constant or continue to increase it slightly, that might work. But it's better to just draw straight to anchor and then release. Perhaps a very short hold. I find that the easiest way to do this is to draw more slowly and to make sure I come back straight to anchor.

When I teach new archers, one of the things I find myself telling them often is Draw the string to your face; don't bring your face to the string. This is a different way of saying the same thing. A lot of people have the natural tendency to draw back however it feels natural, and then to move their face or to crane their neck forward to get to "anchor." They could fix that by just drawing straight to the anchor they use -- or by switching to a different anchoring point that matches their natural draw.

Other than that, which jumped out to me, nothing else looks too bad. I think if you could correct that though you'd end up with a more consistent draw and release, and hopefully you'd have improved accuracy and precision to go with it. Personally, often when I find myself making bad shots I'm either short-drawing or collapsing or flubbing my release. And often when the release is bad it's because I collapsed/lost tension for a moment.

EDIT: It also looks like you are starting your draw from this hunched/leaned forward position, then opening back up, then leaning your neck forward again. You might have better luck if you start from an open position, stay in that position while you draw to anchor, and then remain in that position while you release. It's not extreme, but it's noticeable.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: loon on May 23, 2017, 02:27:30 am
One thing I noticed in your video, and I can't say for sure how much correcting it will help accuracy (but still), is that you draw the bow all the way back, then collapse a slight bit just before you release. Watch the tip of your arrow.
Yeah... I have the same problem and it's been plaguing my consistency and arrow flight forever. To the point where I'm about to install a clicker on my Korean bow, hopefully it'll help. (different kind from the one Olympic shooters use, though. it has a cord going from the limb to the bow string...)
You can try this sort of thing for checking if your arrows are tuned and you have a clean release. Seems like a very good practice method..

Code: [Select]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00oNdxJWhTI
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: hickory hollows on May 23, 2017, 04:51:51 pm
I looks as though you right elbow is too low to allow for proper back tension that allows for a clean release. When you draw try thinking of pinching your lower shoulder blades together. as for being left eye dominant there is no need to switch to shooting lefty, just start shutting your left eye when you shoot. Another thing that may help would be trying different methods of aiming. Instead of trying to shoot by instinct, try gap shooting. Gap shooting helps a lot if you are trying to shoot with your non-dominant hand.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: Pappy on May 26, 2017, 05:25:16 am
Might try loosening up on the grip a bit, also square you shoulders with the target and when you draw to anchor , draw to anchor keeping your head solid, you seem to draw back and then bring your anchor
point to your finger not your finger to your anchor. Just some thought that I work on. Also left eye dominant, of course you would be better off or would have been better off if you had started shooting left but as was said if you shoot both eyes open and are not aiming with the point of your arrow you can over come it. I am left dominant and shoot right handed and do OK, always wondered how much better I could have shot had I started left, just been doing it my way to long and to old to care much or change now. ;) :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: Eric Krewson on May 31, 2017, 05:42:22 pm
Close your left eye when you shoot, your dominant eye is providing too much contrary information that is throwing you off.
Title: Re: still can't hit much -- how is my form
Post by: Ezra Knight on July 20, 2017, 01:12:54 pm
I achieve a smooth release by letting my hand do the thinking. I don't consciously think about the release or when to do it, I just hit anchor, settle in, and then my hand does the rest. Its like it knows when to relax