Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: timmyd on May 18, 2017, 06:15:07 am

Title: Tree ID help
Post by: timmyd on May 18, 2017, 06:15:07 am
Looking for some help identifying this tree. I'm thinking some kind of dogwood but what do you think? Below are pics of the leaves and bark
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: High-Desert on May 18, 2017, 06:26:02 am
It's definitely not dogwood. The veins run parallel at leaf margins on dogwood, and the bark is blocky on dogwood. Sorry, not much help
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Pat B on May 18, 2017, 06:38:30 am
Not a dogwood!  Where do you live. That will help with ID.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: PEARL DRUMS/PEARLY/PD/DRUMS on May 18, 2017, 06:45:39 am
Has a bit of a hickory look to it. But, could be anything.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: BowEd on May 18, 2017, 06:56:16 am
The leaves to me say hickory.+ 1 of what PD said.The bark is sketchy but older and younger hickories bark can look a little different.I've got lots of hickory here around me.Only 2 kinds though.Shag and Pignut.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Jim Davis on May 18, 2017, 07:03:15 am
Leaves not arranged like hickory. Hickory leaves are compound, with leaflets opposite except at the end of the twig and each leaflet is usually larger than its neighbor that is nearer the trunk. Terminal leaflet the largest. Also, Hickory leaves are flat and not at all scalloped on the edges.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Pat B on May 18, 2017, 07:19:11 am
Almost looks like a native magnolia. Has it bloomed this year yet?
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: BowEd on May 18, 2017, 07:23:51 am
I don't see scalloped edges.If that's so elm comes to mind to me,but the leaf arrangement is just like hickory here.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Pat B on May 18, 2017, 07:26:32 am
Not a hickory...at least none I've seen.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: timmyd on May 18, 2017, 07:32:59 am
Pennsylvania and I'm totally stumped. I thought hickory to but I don't think that is it. I've looked online for about an hour and just can't seem to find it. There's a whole grove of this with some nice straight trunks.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: BowEd on May 18, 2017, 07:37:51 am
Yes I took another look at the hickory here.That pic does look different.Not a hickory.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: osage outlaw on May 18, 2017, 07:40:55 am
Is it a buckeye?
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Pat B on May 18, 2017, 07:43:22 am
With the leaves at the end of the branch it should be easier to ID but I don't have my ID books with me.
 Buckeyes have compound leaves also, palmately compound.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Bob W. on May 18, 2017, 07:50:13 am
Leaf looks similar to southern magnolia, but the bark is smooth!
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Pat B on May 18, 2017, 07:55:30 am
This is obviously a deciduous tree. Southern magnolias are evergreen...at least they develop new leaves before they drop their old ones. The Frazier Magnolia, big leaf magnolia and cucumber magnolia all are deciduous, some have smooth bark, others furrowed bark.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: BowEd on May 18, 2017, 08:02:32 am
Took a look at the elm and buckeye here too.It's not that either.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: upstatenybowyer on May 18, 2017, 08:21:03 am
How about Blackgum or Cucumber Tree?
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: ksnow on May 18, 2017, 09:00:27 am
Any nuts or fruits on the ground? I know its the wrong time of year, but maybe something is left.  Pic of leaves on the ground?

Kyle
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Pat B on May 18, 2017, 09:32:15 am
Upstate, I thought of black gum but the bark doesn't look right and a cucumber tree is one of the deciduous magnolias.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Spotted Dog on May 18, 2017, 09:41:47 am
Paw Paw ??
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: osage outlaw on May 18, 2017, 09:47:49 am
Paw Paw ??

Nope. 
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Pat B on May 18, 2017, 09:50:43 am
Pawpaw is smooth bark...at least the ones on my property.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: timmyd on May 18, 2017, 10:03:56 am
I almost want to say it's from the buckeye or horse chestnut family but I just can't get a positive identification. This has really thrown me for a loop
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Hawkdancer on May 18, 2017, 10:26:24 am
Sort of looks like walnut, but that's a wild guess.  Check with the county extension office, they can very likely give you a positive I.d.
Hawkdancer
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Pat B on May 18, 2017, 11:08:43 am
Walnuts are compound leaves also. Buckeye and Chestnuts have compound leaves also.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: timmyd on May 18, 2017, 11:15:31 am
We have lots of walnut here and the leafs don't match this tree
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: BowEd on May 18, 2017, 11:28:36 am
When I went to some horticulture classes when I was younger there were a number of ways to identify trees.Leaves/fruit/bark/overall symmetry or shape from a distance.You've shown 2 identification markers.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: DC on May 18, 2017, 01:15:58 pm
Maybe a Rhamnus. The leaves look very much like a Cascara. I know I'm about 2000 miles west so it won't be Cascara. Something like a Buckthorn maybe.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: PatM on May 18, 2017, 01:51:03 pm
Buckthorn has Cherry or Black Birch-like bark and looks really scrubby in general.

 Take a pic that shows more of the whole tree.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: willie on May 18, 2017, 01:57:11 pm
have you tried a key?

here is one of many available, best go back and review some of the choices I was playing with

Code: [Select]
http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/key/key1.cfm?state=&zone=&habit=tree&leaftype=broadleaf&Phyllotaxy=alternate
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: upstatenybowyer on May 18, 2017, 06:27:04 pm
More pictures! This is driving me nuts!
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: TimBo on May 18, 2017, 06:44:44 pm
I think black gum - if you google images, the bark looks very similar.  More pictures would be good though.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: timmyd on May 18, 2017, 06:48:42 pm
I'll get Some more pics tomorrow yes this is driving me nuts to
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Dakota Kid on May 18, 2017, 07:00:40 pm
Could be black gum, but I'm thinking maybe sourwood as well. PA is just on the northern edge of the tree's range which would make it uncommon but possible.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: PatM on May 18, 2017, 07:40:14 pm
Any signs of flower or fruit? It does look rather like Black Gum (tupelo).
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Pat B on May 19, 2017, 04:31:44 am
Not sourwood  and I don 't think gum either.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: osage outlaw on May 19, 2017, 05:21:33 am
I'm surprised Pearly hasn't guessed Mongolian Tulip yet  ;D
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Hrothgar on May 19, 2017, 05:50:10 am
Kinda hard to tell from the pictures, but are the leaves 5 bladed? If its Ohio buckeye you should be able to grind up the leaves or bark and take a whiff, if it stinks its another indicator of a buckeye.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Pat B on May 19, 2017, 06:15:56 am
Those leaves are singular and not compound.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Swampman on May 19, 2017, 06:46:27 am
I only have a tree ID book for Minnesota.  I looked through my entire book and didn't find that tree so it must not grow here.  It does look like now wood to me though.  Nice and straight.  I would cut one and split it up into staves.

Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: upstatenybowyer on May 19, 2017, 05:00:55 pm
I've got my money on Blackgum until someone proves me wrong. It's found in PA and check out this bark pic I got off a reputable website...
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: upstatenybowyer on May 19, 2017, 05:02:54 pm
And here's a leaf pic...
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Swampman on May 19, 2017, 08:38:35 pm
Looks like blackgum to me. 
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: BowEd on May 20, 2017, 06:26:41 am
You could be very well right Jeff.Looks like it.Is black gum good bow wood?I don't have it here.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: timmyd on May 20, 2017, 06:51:01 am
I don't know if this matters but the leaf pics of black gum I've seen online have 5 leaflets. These trees have 4. Again not sure if that makes a difference.

That's why I'm trying to identify this tree...some of them have nice trunks that would yield plenty of staves if it's a bow wood
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: mwosborn on May 20, 2017, 07:00:35 am
Timmyd -

The leaves are actually simple leaves (single "leaf blade"), not compound.  Those in the picture are just showing a twig that happens to have 5 leaves.  The leaf number on a twig can vary.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Pat B on May 20, 2017, 08:57:07 am
I still don't think it is black gum.   Black gum will make a good bow but the wood has interlocking grain and it is a bear to split...even more so than elm.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: Mac43560 on May 20, 2017, 12:40:27 pm
Blackgum also tends to have 90 degree branching and the leaves will occasionally have the devils horns.  I would suggest id by buds.
Title: Re: Tree ID help
Post by: wapiti1997 on May 20, 2017, 04:21:30 pm
It's either black gum or cucumber tree, leaning towards black gum.  Cucumber tree has bigger leaves than black gum