Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: ajbruggink on May 20, 2017, 11:42:29 pm
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Heh Guys,
A while back I was backing a stave with rawhide and I used too much glue, resulting in spots of glue forming underneath the rawhide. I was wondering how big of an issue this is, do I have re-do the backing job or can I get away with this? Your responses are greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Aaron
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I have never backed any bows with rawhide, but I would re do that. It looks like you wrapped it but not evenly enough. Cheers-brendan
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Is the glue dry? What type of glue did you use? I'm not sure how it will effect bow or how you could redo it if its dry. If glue isn't dry you might be able to poke small hole with needle and squeeze access glue out. Next time squeeze access glue out by running your finger over rawhide squeezing glue out side and ends before wrapping. I unwrap after a hour of so poke any spots with needle squeeze out glue, wipe off good then rewrap.
Bjrogg
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There's no need to wrap rawhide while it dries, unless maybe in a recurved area. Here's a different method that eliminates wrapping and won't leave excess glue behind. Once you arrive at the page, part 2 is in a link to the right.
http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/SELFBOWS/gluing_backing.CFM
I hope it's ok to post this link this way. I didn't see any other way to do it.
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I have always wrapped mine with Ace bandages. The key is light pressure and very even coverage so you don't pile up glue. My first few looked similar to yours, nowadays they come off pretty smooth. I know some guys use hide glue and a clothes iron. That always intrigued me. But I'm not a fan of hide glue unless im applying sinew.
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Is the glue dry? What type of glue did you use? I'm not sure how it will effect bow or how you could redo it if its dry. If glue isn't dry you might be able to poke small hole with needle and squeeze access glue out. Next time squeeze access glue out by running your finger over rawhide squeezing glue out side and ends before wrapping. I unwrap after a hour of so poke any spots with needle squeeze out glue, wipe off good then rewrap.
Bjrogg
Yes the glue is dry, I glued this up a month ago with Titebond III, I have ripped off rawhide off of bows that broke but it usually comes off in strips, its a real pain.
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next time,, smooth out the glue and hide before you wrap it,,
if you had a belt sander you could sand it off, and redo,,
the bow would probably shoot fine,, I thinks it your call
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When I add rawhide or snake skins with TB glues I make sure the rawhide(or skin) is degreased by wetting it well and washing it with Dawn dish soap then rinse well. I rawhide one limb at a time and wrap with strips of old bed sheets. After about an hour I will remove the wrap and check for air bubbles or excess glue. I either squeeze out the air and glue to the sides if I can or use a sharp razor to cut a small slit lengthwise and squeeze the air or glue out. You'll never see the slits after the rawhide dries. I do the other limb, overlapping the rawhide at the handle and use the same procedure. I trim the excess rawhide off with a sharp razor while it is still somewhat hydrated then let the bow dry for at least a few days to more to be sure the moisture is out of the rawhide and the wood. Once it is cured out I sand the edge of the rawhide with a sanding block to get the transition even before adding the finish.
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This happened to me once or twice when I first started backing bows with rawhide. I'm sure it'll still work just fine functionally. The only issue now is aesthetics. :)
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I'm sure it will be fine. It may pop and crack a few times as you draw it out. But I doubt it moves after that.
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X2 what Pat says I've rawhide backed quite a few bows and if you follow his instructions you will be good to go!
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The procedure Pat B spoke of is about the way I do my rawhide applications now too.Did birch bark with smooth on epoxy once with a wrap that gave results similar to what you've got there.The birch bark eventually cracked a bit like Pearly mentioned.
I still use tite bond 3 yet nowadays though smoothing the excess glue and air out like bjrogg mentioned too before wrapping for an hour or so.Keeping my fingers wet from a pan of water while doing so too.Do snake skins practically the same way too but don't wrap them.
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I've started using hide glue for rawhide and skins and the process is the same as I mentioned above. I like hide glue because it "sucks" the rawhide or skins to the bow with fewer air or glue bubbles.
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Thank you for replies, guys, I'm just going to give it shot the way it is, try better next time.
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Pat, that's why I use it too. Hide and hide glue have a natural affinity for each other. That 'suck' means no wrapping to me. And no wrapping means no surprises like lumps of glue, air bubbles, sliding, impressions, etc. I can get it just right and then watch it set up and dry. I also like the options of using an iron, heat gun, warm burnisher, etc to reliquify as I work. Another important aspect to the 'wrapless' option is to not hydrate the rawhide too much. Just supple, not bloated... which means less shrinking and curling of the edges.... i.e. no need to wrap. With a nice thin piece of deer rawhide, it only takes a minute or three in lukewarm water.
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How do you guys waterproof the rawhide backing if using hide glue?
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I use Tru-Oil just like any other bow.
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What if I try to glue a rawhide backing with hide glue.. with perry reflex? Would it do work? Or just break off?
It gets pretty stiff when dry..
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Perry reflex is just for hard backings. Rawhide adds no performance, only protection. You can add rawhide to a reflexed or R/D style bow but still only for protection.
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I use Thunderbird bow finish. It would sure save some time and effort if rawhide had the tension properties of sinew, wouldn't it?
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For finish on rawhide I'm using a lacquer called magna lac.Very quick drying.Works great too although the rawhide does need a few more light passes to do a good job.
I'll have to get into using hide glue to put rawhide on too.Really like that sucking quality.
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I use tru oil to seal, I use TB3 to put it on and usually don't wrap it at all., I do one limb at a time and work from handle to tip with my thumbs , from center of limb to sides pushing out the excess glue and air, I will do this over and over every few minutes until the glue sets , don't take long with TB3 if the weather is good. I do the same with snake skins. If I do wrap I am very careful to wrap light and keep the air and glue pushed out and I work the wrap down the limb, then work down the limb with my thumbs after it is wrapped same as I do if I don't wrap it. :)
Pappy
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Good evening, I know its prob. a bit late now to fix what happened but I never wrap my backings. I just spend the time and work the backing be it rawhide, snake skins, fish skins, silk to name a few. I do a sizing coat first and let it dry until almost dry/slightly tacky. I then keep smoothing over it with a wet finger or antler until it starts to set up a little. You can work on another bow or arrows. watch a game whatever tickles your fancy. When it starts to dry and the backing starts to shrink a bit is the danger time when air pockets want to start showing their ugly faces. Just keep working them one limb at a time. I repeat this process until they are stable and glue is about dry and no air pockets are showing. I haven't had a backing bubble on me using this way in a long time.I always use tite bond 3 unless im doing a all natural bow or native replica.