Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Primitive Skills => Topic started by: Scallorn on May 21, 2017, 11:50:29 pm
-
I think it's time to revisit the friction fire topic! I've been making fire by friction for years now and it's always an enjoyable experience. If anyone is struggling or has questions about how to make it work, feel free to ask. My favorite method has been the hand drill technique, but i also enjoy making bow and drill kits, fire plows, and fire saws with the giant cane i have around here. However, since I've been forging alot lately, I've made my fair share of fires with flint and steel too. What's your favorite primitive fire starter?
-
I have used the bamboo fire saw with success. Got a video of it too....
-
its a while now i'm playing with handdrill
it's quite easy in ideal condition but I find still pretty difficult to make it in the woods, from scratch and with no tools. very low success rate
same for bow drill. not easy at all to make a reliable string for the bow in the wild and primitive style
-
Hand drills are more difficult to make on the spot because the materials have to be just right. And people usually prepare the set in advance. With a bow drill there is some room for variation in the materials, hardness, dryness, ect' because you have more mechanical advantage and you can create more heat than what is necessary. I would recommend carrying paracord or something so you can focus more on getting the correct wood and then worry about natural cordage. That being said, I'm blessed to live in an area with lots of yucca for cordage and spindles
-
Absolutly dont want to diminish your skills but if you got yucca you probably got also the weather factor on your behalf
a small amount of humidity could be a real pain for handdrill (R
do you tried fire saw or fire plow with wood other than cane or bamboo? if yes what are the best in your opinion?
-
I've done the flint and steel, ferro rod, and magnifying glass.
I got a piece of copper tube, caps, lead free solder, a wooden dowel, and some O rings this past weekend and I'm going to make a few fire pistons out of the materials to keep in my pack and give away.
It's the "easy" friction fire but it's a good backup to have.
-
Love me some fire pistons!
-
Sleek, fiddler was showing his piston the other day, I gotta give that a try.
-
Glis, no doubt i have weather on my side down here in TX! It is definitely not as easy to use a hand drill in wet weather, but i have been able to do it. And yes dried yucca spindles make a world of difference :G
-
I'm all ears, err eyes.
Zuma
-
I have lots of experience with flint and steel technique but the others I have very little even though I fully understand the process. Having said that, a buddy of mine is quit good with bow drill fire. I saw him start a fire in 14 seconds with real dry eastern cedar board and spindle. I asked him one day to do a test. Start a fire with only what we could collect from nature which included cordage. Long story short, after three hours and two twisted plant cordage and a worn out boot string we made a lot of smoke with two slight embers but no fire. Point is that many gather and prepare their "fire kit" and start fires regularly but thrown into a challenge of making everything when standing on a ridge top it can go south in a hurry. Natural cordage is difficult to make that will stand the friction of a bow drill and it would be of value to know many different cordage materials. I have heard it said that everything needed for a bow fire is found in a poplar tree. My experience is the inner bark is too brittle for it. Yucca works well but is very limited in availability in eastern US. Mostly found where old home sites are located so that can be very limiting for use. What is common and usable in your area? Just a good question to ask and know.
Couple questions for the experienced fire starters; can a piece of river cane be straightened and the nodes smoothed for a hand drill fire starter? Can a small piece of proper wood be inserted into the end and spun to start a fire on a fire board? My thought is to use a rivercane arrow shaft as a spindle fire starter with the wood insert.
I watch the survival shows and see "experts" with the bow drill get on there and fail miserably. I know where to go to get dogbane, yucca, basswood and other plants for cordage. Also I know good fishing holes and places to ambush deer but take me 200 miles from here and drop me into a new forest all that local knowledge is of zero value. I need to know how to identify and locate resources in that area. I believe that is why many survival experts fail. Again, I say I have knowledge of the different techniques and have tried many methods but to feel absolutely confident in the process I have not reached that level. Just some thoughts and questions on friction fire.
-
I saw him start a fire in 14 seconds with real dry eastern cedar board and spindle. I asked him one day to do a test. Start a fire with only what we could collect from nature which included cordage. Long story short, after three hours and two twisted plant cordage and
that's exaclty my view
I dont see the point on making a kit of very good material collected far away and maybe exotic.
if I can carry such a kit I may well carry a modern lighter.
I want to be able to start a fire with the things I'm able to collect on site but it's not easy
saw drill is difficult because it's difficult to obtain a reliable natural cordage, hand drill and fire saw or fire plow needs a better selections of materials
can a piece of river cane be straightened and the nodes smoothed for a hand drill fire starter?
yes you can but you need fire ;D ;D ;D to use the heat to straighten
Can a small piece of proper wood be inserted into the end and spun to start a fire on a fire board?
yes definitly!
-
Lyman, have had this discussion many times on collecting materials today and starting a fire, can be done but very difficult, a friend of mine made a huge thick string for bow drill from hickory bark striped from live sapling and soaked in water, braided and worked well. Bob (=)
-
I have a basic plan which could easily need adjustments but the use of rawhide for a bow drill seems to me as the best natural material. If you are able to use or make a deadfall or other means to obtain a possum,raccon,squirrel,groundhog or any small game animal then you will have the rawhide needed for a bow drill. You will also have your first meal that you can cook over a fire. That one kill can provide rawhide for making lashing for tools, bones and bait to further help your situation. A lethal deadfall can be made with only sticks or simple plant cordage. Nothing is fool proof but it is a plan.
-
I guess that some kind of pump drill could be the ticket to light a fire in the field without previous preparation
It's almost effective as a bow drill but the string will not wear as fast
building the flywheel is more work but not a difficult one (you can just tie one or two big braches to add mass)
-
We were out camping and decided to start a fire with a cord drill. We used wood we found on site but used paracord. After two days with three guys trying we gave up. I took the wood pices home and chucked the spindle in my drill press. After and hour or so of lots of smoke and two holes drilled through the board I decided that the wood must just be too damp with our RH. Granted it was our first try but everything was according to the drawing and videos I've seen. I would have thought the drill press would have done it.
-
It's damp like that where I came from, and there's probably a reason the old timers carried what was called a tinder box. having good tinder is often harder than getting a spark or hot spot to ignite it.
-
clematis vitalba base and bramble (rubus fruticosa) spindle. First try with this materials
clematis collected a week ago and left to sun.
dead bramble already dry picked from the shrub today
very fast and easy coal with handdrill.
Definitly a good combination also because both plants are very abundant were I live
-
These two are everywhere indeed. I'll give them a try!
-
I haven't messed with a hand drill since last summer, Decided today to give it a whirl and see how out of shape I gotten, Had a pc of Mullein that had been drying since last winter, Found a pc of white pine board and started drilling , got smoke in awhile and stopped leaving my spindle in the board, caught my breath and on round 2 got a beautiful big coal almost immediately, Not bad for a 69 yr old young guy. Bob
-
I dont think mullen is very common nearby but it could be me not paying enough attention
Will try to find some. I'd also like to try elder
I'd also like to know if you use something to make the spindle more sticky
Usually they say to use resin or simply spit on it.
Wax is very good but unlikely to find in nature
any other sustance?
-
Glis, funny you should mention using something sticky, I always had trouble with my hand drills seeming to not have enough down pressure, I do use pinepitch on my spindles and it definitely helped me to get more down pressure, ;D it will also increase your chances of blister until your hands get toughen up :( I just cut a limb of one of my spruce trees and collect the sap, sticky enough. Glis what part of the country are ya from, Mullein is fairly common at least in a Pa. Horseweed is my other favorite drill. Bob
-
Check out this, and his other videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhLkIPNwgwo&index=39&list=UU9yW33ZesEUd2ZIlNrj8ZQg
-
very nice video. like the fact is all primitive
Glis what part of the country are ya from, Mullein is fairly common at least in a Pa. Horseweed is my other favorite drill. Bob
north of Italy.
I didnt know mullen. now i've seen pictures and I think I've seen it before in nature but not so common. will try to find some
As far as using something on the spindle I'm trying not to use anything but i'd really like to know possible alternatives to pinepitch.
maybe some berry juice, blood or something ;D
-
If memory serves me correctly, Mullen is the very mature form of what we called "skunk cabbage" in the greens stage. Supposed to be good boiled with any pork and enough salt. stalks can be quite tough. Not good for Horses apparently. Good dry tinder in the drill hole to catch the heat of the drill?
Have not tried a fire bow. Being only 26(3rd time), I just want to get the fire going as quickly as possible! I carry a small bottle of lamp oil for survival type situations, and lots of matches. Whatever method you prefer, practice, practice, practice, and eat only on the days you practice. >:D
Hawkdancer
-
Hawkdancer, Mullein and Skunkcabbage are 2 completely different plants, No tinder in the hole, drill and board make there own fine dust which gets hot enough to make a coal. Mullein is usually used for medicinal purposes never heard of anyone eating it. Bob