Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Horn Bows => Topic started by: BowEd on June 09, 2017, 10:58:29 am
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Another hickory/horn/sinew.Not yet near finished but on it's way.56.5" NTN.Right now 52#'s @ 28".Pics of profile before tiller and after tiller.Had to remove 65 to 70 grains of horn sanding to get current shape & poundage.Started with 14" TTT reflex.Lost 3" overall to 11" TTT after tillering resting over night.A person could take off 3/4" to get to NTN reflex measurement.The actual real measurement.Immediately after unstringing being braced 4 hours or so setting with 9" reflex.Mass weight 17.90 ounces but don't have handle carved in yet.I'm guessing lower 17 to upper 16 ounces in the end.
Update 4 years later.....5/29/21 mass weight is 17.00 ounces finished.50% humidity.11" resting reflex.7.25" brace height to back of handle.After 4 hours of shooting and string time it unbraces at 9.5" reflex.In fifteen minutes back to 10.5" reflex.Back to 11" reflex again overnight.Fully cured horn bow.Follow up on these type bows is not done very often.Excellent fun shooter!!!
Before tillering
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1561_zpsl2y0oqgh.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1561_zpsl2y0oqgh.jpg.html)
After tillering resting overnight
(https://i.imgur.com/WJzgvIB.jpg)
Brace of 6.5 to 7 inches to the back.I guess this one can be called a true recurve as the string does actually rest on the belly a couple of inches.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1654_zps1uzamwtg.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1654_zps1uzamwtg.jpg.html)
Full draw
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1655_zpsmatquk2l.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1655_zpsmatquk2l.jpg.html)
I'll dress her up in the next few of weeks.Take more pics of it then.
Here are pictures of the preliminary process:
The core
(https://i.imgur.com/QCgQKTm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GK4T2Wp.jpg)
Glue up of horn inducing 8" of reflex.Using smooth on I can get away with a tight inner tube wrapping.Otherwise C clamps are reccommended.Both core and horn are pretappered before glue up.
(https://i.imgur.com/Wez0h7Y.jpg)
Off form retaining 5.5" of reflex.
(https://i.imgur.com/cJExvzY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Qbuvu7c.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3Ngsmbg.jpg)
Around 1200 grains of moose and elk leg sinew ready
(https://i.imgur.com/b4GbEej.jpg)
I score the back of bow length wise well with a hack saw blade/sized it well with thin hide glue/then apply first course of sinew.Reverse bracing while drying.Sinew was put on 3 different stages.Reflex increased a bit each time
(https://i.imgur.com/FIVnQMU.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sE3AjN9.jpg)
Final cured look then to tillering and look as in pictures at beginning of the posting of the bow
(https://i.imgur.com/F8XZOBj.jpg)
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Looking good Ed
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Sweeet...
DBar
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You sure make sweet bows Ed. :D :D Do you run the sinew right out to the end of the limb? Do you wrap the end of the sinew?
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That is going to be nice!
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Very nice
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Braced and full draw look awesome Ed
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That's a amazing bow Ed I always enjoy your next generation vertion the new & improved composite bet you have a 200 ++++ fps bow there at your specs, anxiously waiting your shooting report !
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Thanks fellas.
It needs to be broken in good and proper to settle in yet but for all purposes it's done.It needed a tip tweaked for alignment yet.
I don't think I've hardly ever put sinew to the tip knock on any bow.This one quits around 8" from the tip.Wraps are mostly for accents really I think.Not really necessary for fear of sinew popping up anyway.At least I've never seen one do it.The loop dragging down the tip unbraced can wear things once in a while.
It should perform good with a 10 grain arrow or any arrow really.
Gotta finish other bows I've started while waiting on this one.
Finish work.....Decisions,decisions,decisions.
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Man Ed, that one sure looks good buddy!
Patrick
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Thanks Pat.
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Ed, you're a talented feller. Congrats!
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Thanks Pat.
Your welcome Ed, I really admire your work. Ive always wanted one of those horn bows or a composit like the one in the thread. Ive read a lot on making one but I can never find the horn or when I do I can't afford it. I sure do enjoy shooting that selfbow I got last year at mojam that you made. Sure is a sweet shooting bow.
Patrick
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Very nice bow, Ed. I got a set of horn from Matt Wirwicki at the Classic this year and am giving it a lot of thought whether to build one like this one of yours or a more "Native American" style bow.
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Thanks again fellas.
Pat B..I think StickBender has the same thoughts in mind for a bow.
Patrick...It's good that that bow has a good home.If I remember right it was 49#'s @ 28".That may have gone up a bit since like self bows can do.I'l pick out another here for the auction at Mo Jam too.It's a fun place to shoot.
Tillering horn is a different ball game as far as stability goes.Depending on percentage of thickness it is.More so then wood being a lot stiffer.Can't jump to conclusions as quick while tillering.
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Pat I had the same thoughts as you but after doing my home work & studying composite design that if I was looking for performance out of a strait native composite design compared to self bow /sinew it wasn't there with the fine balancing act between keeping mass low length short ,reflex high and not having a bow that would stack like crazy so I'm working on a 53 in. Hybrid design bendy with 9 in. static recurves , Ed has his design down to a art after all his R&D of hard knocks he has done , making one of his would be the path of least resistance with his work as a reference but it's a lot of fun trying a new design and doing the research , let us know which way your going.
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Thanks Ed, looking forward to seeing what bow you put on the table at mojam! I won't be taking it home though, funds are low for me this year.
Ill keep doing my research on horn bows. And keep your advice in mind. Sure would like to hunt with one!
Patrick
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Patrick..I found that hunting with one is a bit harder then with a self bow.That's just me though.I need more practice.On a target range they are a lot of fun for sure.
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That bow looks so sweet Ed. I love your work. I really need to check out this horn bow section more often
Bjrogg
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Thanks bjrogg.You make some fine looking bows yourself like others on here.
I found the most conclusive way to finish one of these is to shoot it in very well.At least 500 arrows before finishing.Long stringing times.Getting it to settle properly.If there is any slight imbalance that keeps occuring that can't be corrected by pressure or heat then material removal is required and more shooting in.Patience.Once the finish is on I don't want to have to take the finish back off anywhere.
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During this time when it's got no finish do you keep it in a hotbox or something? Maybe it's dry enough where you are.
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I just keep it in the house on a bow rack around 50% humidity.
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Pat I had the same thoughts as you but after doing my home work & studying composite design that if I was looking for performance out of a strait native composite design compared to self bow /sinew it wasn't there with the fine balancing act between keeping mass low length short ,reflex high and not having a bow that would stack like crazy so I'm working on a 53 in. Hybrid design bendy with 9 in. static recurves , Ed has his design down to a art after all his R&D of hard knocks he has done , making one of his would be the path of least resistance with his work as a reference but it's a lot of fun trying a new design and doing the research , let us know which way your going.
I built a straight limbed na style hornbow that i gave badly bent , that little sucker was screaming fast, maybe i just got lucky🤔
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bubby, did you post that bow here on "Horn Bows"?
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Composites are a different animal as far as speed goes it seems.More manipulation conditioning and environment.No matter how much shot or braced if tillered good while braced they maintain energy and they return.That's my take on it.Ease of draw for accuracy counts too at least for me for hunting reasons.Screaming fast is a term used a lot for a general description.Speed of over 200 fps with a 10 gpp arrow I would call screaming fast.Not discounting the NA design any though.
This bow in a way is an experiment in the sense of durability.I expect 10,000 shots at least myself to call it a success or a lifetime liver.Performance wise I'll see if it's a screamer.The previous one was.I feel the working limbs are too long yet.Getting the most energy out of a shorter working area with low mass I feel would do better with high reflex of 8 to 12 inchs.
Then it's a matter of clean arrow flight to put everything together.I'm seeing good arrow flight with a 30" long 50 to 55 spine arrows on this 48 to 50 pound bow but have not distance shot it yet either.I will do the testing on this bow and let the chips fall where they may.
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bubby, did you post that bow here on "Horn Bows"?
I did Pat, here it is again, not a ton of reflex
https://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,53228.msg721438.html#msg721438
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That's more of what I was thinking...even back then apparently. Thanks bubby.
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Bubby that's a beautifull bow I wasn't at all trying to berate the NA design sense Ed mentioned to Pat that I was making a similar bow I wanted to qualify which direction I was going I'm looking for a higher stressed design to take advantage of the materials is all , looking for close to 200fps 10 gpp potential !
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That is a very nice beautiful bow bubby and can see the time it took to make it.I would'nt of minded shooting that one once.
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Didn't mean to hijack the topic, just posted that link for Patb
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I guess I'm the hijacker here. Bubby, thanks for the link and I apologize to Ed for the hijack.
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No reason really for apologizing.It's just another aspect of a composite bow.Variety is the spice of life as they say.
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Thanks Ed.
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I'll throw this out here....Pre sweating a good 4 to 6 hours on a peg board prior to bracing helped a lot I think.I'm able to get away with this with the limbs being pretapered.Otherwise hinging might occur too close to the fades on regular turkish horn bow tapering.Normally tepiliks are used for bracing then.You can just barely see the tillering string is on already.I take a measurement of the distance tip to tip later and make a double loop string for it.
I made a portable peg board to travel with now as the angle is just too steep for my primitive stringer to do it safely.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1649_zps9kbuzssg.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1649_zps9kbuzssg.jpg.html)
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Hey Ed did you figure a Adams style mass number like in appendix 3 yet ?
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No actually I figured Steve Gardners formula.I think it's because of the reflex and resting profile it has is as to where it gets it's speed.Even though with Adams' figures say it should be a dog of a bow.Way over built mass wise etc. for it's poundage.With Steves' figures it is an outstanding performer and very under mass because of it's resting profile.There's video of the previous like styled bows' performance shooting through the chronograph.
I'm still shooting this one in here.Too windy yesterday because I like to see my arrow flight while I'm shooting.I'm evaluating exactly the type spine wooden shafts I will shoot.I will test this new one through the chronograph sometime here.
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I think in a sense its like apples to oranges I was just curious more then any thing but with heavier arrows your bow would be really efficient I would think acording to his theory even if you made a NA bow that would perform the same as a sinew bow the composite would be more durable bow according to the same theory, that bow of yours is king of the hill hunting bow I think durability and FG plus speed !
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It must be an apples to oranges comparison.I just go with what it does/and feels like.From the very beginning of making these durability and resilience from hard usage was one of the top reasons.I'm told though even composites can wear out too though.
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I think durability is tops on the list for me I just meant the comparison between turk and your style is apples & oranges Adams numbers dont apply but your design not being as stressed as a turk bow seems like you would have a hard time wearing it out a lot of hunting seasons in that bow (=)
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Well I sure hope so Ritch.I need more meat and rawhide.These type bows I've read have a reputation for shooting heavier arrows pretty good especially for hunting.Along with a lot of fun target shooting.I'm a novice at these horn bows overall really.Knowing just enough to get into trouble....lol.
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Really beautiful work, looks amazing. I like the way you have the horn go into the grip fades, seems difficult to glue up an inside curve like that, what method did you use? Thanks for sharing this, makes me want to get down to the workshop!
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david....Thanks.I think it's more of an intermediate transition type bow I would say from the self bow compared to the more complex construction of the turkish and other types.
The horn up onto the fades to the base of the handle grip on the belly was heated and curved to assist easier gluing with C clamps.I made 2 little leather padded curved forms to insure good uniform clamping pressure.After that a horn underlay on the handle grip to give the appearance of horn completely along the belly of the bow.The abrupt angle does concern me somewhat but always seems to hold up on previous attempts in the past.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1538_zpstpp9dan7.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1538_zpstpp9dan7.jpg.html)
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Ahh, thanks, nice little jig there, good idea. I imagine the joints in the horn are down far enough into the fades and away from the bending areas to not be an issue.
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Hey Ed where were the areas that needed tiller work after brace & sweating ? Just curious if between the others you made and that one if there was a common area that needed attention ?
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Their all different really.I tried to get it with no horn removal at all on the short string brace profile but needed to remove just a little material overall on one limb yet if I remember right,but still very insignificant.Sometimes a person can get it exactly right and sometimes just a little off.Putting it on a peg board can stress it like a long string on a self bow but true tiller is'nt revealed till you put the short string on it pitting one limb against the other.It's all done by hand of course but measured with a calipers intermittently.Everythng width/length/and thickness identical of course.During reverse bracing and sinewing one limb can reflex slightly more then another too causing that.Should'nt happen but it does.Weakening the higher reflexed limb puts it right then.That's when making self bows in the past helps out tillering that,but a person has to excercize these more and be more patient letting it reveal it's tiller.This time I put the higher reflexed limb on the bottom.An easier type horn bow to make really with enough width having 0 stability issues.
Yes with the fades slightly longer by a 1/2" each way they are'nt working so no fear of horn/core bonding weakness there.
On a side note here.....With the horn comprising a good amount of thickness and being more elastic and less stable then wood stressing even the stronger limb overly while bracing can create an out of tiller look making it look weaker.Can be alarming when first seen but pressing the string to the belly or close to it of the opposite limb can shape things up in seconds on it's own if tillered correctly.Just like self bows but more pronounced I would say with horn bows.
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Beauty!
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Thanks Chuck.I always admire your work.
Here's a picture of a lesson learned.I knew in my gut I was taking chances shooting arrows not built up strong enough but went along shooting them anyway.Well from now on an insert of at least 2" of horn and wrapping of at least an inch below the nock throat of these self nock arrows will be a must with a bow like this.
A partial or almost complete dry fire came when this arrow nock blew out while shooting this bow in some time ago.Relieved the arrow was the only thing broke here.That horn insert there is around an inch long that blew out.No wrapping whatsoever.It had been shot a number of times before it blew.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1689_zps2oijovin.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1689_zps2oijovin.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1687_zpsuftv3bux.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1687_zpsuftv3bux.jpg.html)
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Wrapping them with a little sinew should prevent this.
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Yes.
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Very nice Ed.
I like your bracing jig. It's very similar to one I made years ago but looks a bit sturdier than mine.
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Yes it is a bit of overkill in size that is needed really.I did want it to be 1.5" thick though.
So I made a lighter weight more portable type out of a 2" by 12".Setting on top of the first I made in the picture.It will attach to the back end of my pickup easily for use in the field.
For future horn bows or similar I feel it will come in handy someday.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1691_zpszguaghzn.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1691_zpszguaghzn.jpg.html)
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Yes it is a bit of overkill in size that is needed really.I did want it to be 1.5" thick though.
So I made a lighter weight more portable type out of a 2" by 12".Setting on top of the first I made in the picture.It will attach to the back end of my pickup easily for use in the field.
For future horn bows or similar I feel it will come in handy someday.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1691_zpszguaghzn.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1691_zpszguaghzn.jpg.html)
Well I've been commissioned to make a 150# recurve so I'll have to get my old bracing jig out of storage or make a new and improved one
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Zoweee!!!That's a war bow!My arm is sore just thinking about that poundage.A recurve...How short a recurve?
You'll have to use at least 3/4" thick pegs to hold those tips into place.....lol.Hope you show it along the way when it's done.Is it supposed to be a laminate or a sinewed bow?Surely not a self bow.
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Well I've never made a recurve over 90# so this will be a challenge. It will be drawn to 32" and used for target so I'll make it long enough to survive for awhile
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That one sounds like a long range target bow Yikes ! I have never met any body that could pull a 150 lb. Bow !
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I'd find it hard to make a bow I can't shoot.
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I don't look in this section often, as a result I missed this one. Fantastic work Ed. It looks amazing.
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Thanks Chris.The traffic on this thread is kinda like active service in the army.Lots of quiet boredom then hot and heavy action.
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Ok maybe I spend to much time thinking about these bows but I was thinking if your bow was a 7 or a 7 1/2 by Adams numbers and near perfect by the mass principle relying on Adams numbers as far as durability meaning your bow and materials are 2 1/2 points less stressed then a solid Turk bow Ed I don't think you have enough years left to burn it out providing no hidden flaws in material !
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Yes Ritch time will tell.I expect to shoot it a long long time.It's a fun bow to shoot.Pretty smooth with a whispery snap on release with no hand shock that I notice with around 10 gpp arrows.Mass is high according to Adam's numbers.Less working limb would lessen that some and increase performance in the process too.
Well after 3 to 4 weeks of shooting pretty much every day I feel it is finished and shot in.I decided to just keep it pretty simple.I put birch bark on it and stained it with a light tan leather dye.The horn has overlays of bloodwood on tip overlays and palm of handle.Black and red silk wraps also.I tillered it down to 48#'s @ 28".It ended up mass weighing @ 17.50 ounces as is now.It rests back @ 10.5" reflex within a day from shooting.Just unbraced after 6 hours of shooting a scooch over 8" reflex.Thought it might be a good opportunity to show it against my self brain tanned buffalo hide hung over my target back stop and a buck I shot a couple of years ago with a winged elm self bow and dogwood arrow.Thanks for looking.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1732_zps59fix32h.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1732_zps59fix32h.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1745_zps3ad7phvb.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1745_zps3ad7phvb.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1729_zpsbslen0nw.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1729_zpsbslen0nw.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1726_zpslsyfcklm.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1726_zpslsyfcklm.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1727_zpsk5abvnr0.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1727_zpsk5abvnr0.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1728_zpsirfpe1ra.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1728_zpsirfpe1ra.jpg.html)
(https://i.imgur.com/w6ksnyJ.jpg)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1716_zpszftl5sis.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1716_zpszftl5sis.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1736_zpstnwpifce.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1736_zpstnwpifce.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1737_zps7yorurc7.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1737_zps7yorurc7.jpg.html)
Shooting it in was fun so to the round bale butts I went.With it getting pretty warm lately into the mid 90's most times I shot towards the end of the day.Shooting into the side of the bales was best.Into the ends of the bales run the chance of losing my arrow disappearing into the bale too deep.Nice hard hitting bow.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1742_zpsfzdmjf9v.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1742_zpsfzdmjf9v.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1743_zpsywcayxt7.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1743_zpsywcayxt7.jpg.html)
I made some self nock reinforced douglas firs for it.50 to 55 spine shoots well off this bow with 145 grain field points.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1707_zpsz4rjymsp.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1707_zpsz4rjymsp.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1708_zpsxpavqalw.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1708_zpsxpavqalw.jpg.html)
I also made up a fdc on the bow.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1753_zpss1qgb0bf.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1753_zpss1qgb0bf.jpg.html)
This 48# bow shot a 495 grain arrow with a 3gpp string @ 28" in the mid 180's consistently.Just a little faster before it got shot in.I can honestly and safely say if shooting a 480 grain 10 grain per pound of draw weight arrow it would be close to 190 fps consistently.Shooting a 600 grain or 12.5 gpp hunting weight arrow around 170 fps.That's 38.5 ft.lbs. of kenetic energy with a good 0.4529 momentum ft.lbs./sec.More then enough for whitetail deer or larger game is so desired.All in all I'm pleased enough with the bow.I did learn a few things though with it along the way from making bows like this previously.There are give and takes when constructing as far as percentages of thickness of materials.Previously I opted for a thicker core 50% and two 25% thicknesses of composites.The bow shot outstanding.With the widths of the limbs the same this time I went with thicker horn percentage.It reduced the set taken but because of horns' density and mass the speed is slightly reduced also with the longer working limbs.It's also reflected in the mass weight.Previous bow was 60" long.This one 58" long but still the same mass weight finished.It's what I would call an intermediate type horn bow.It still is a very quick bow and very comfortable to shoot.Rivaling most any FG bow out there.Some self bows I've made here too though only shoot 10 to 15 fps or less slower.Construction time of course is quicker just making a self bow.Making a sinewed bow like this with this amount of sinew will take longer to cure of course and is the real time consumer.The addition of horn first before sinewing actually only takes an extra day or two at most in construction time and glueing with the right tools.More then likely I will use it quite a bit for all types of shooting and hunting.
As promised earlier on thread the results of hunting season with the bow and dogwood arrows:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,64444.0.html
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,64648.0.html
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Very excellent bow, Ed, very excellent! :OK 8)
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Thats every thing a natural material hunting bow should be and then some congrats ! Ed does that one have the same draw feel like you exsplained on your last one I think you related it to a rubber band feel ?
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Thanks fellas.
A very strong rubber band I would say with no stack.The previous bows like this were a little more poundage.
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Great job Ed! I really like your bows.
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Thanks DC.I shoot with FG bow makers year round over here.These type bows open their eyes a little wider to the capabilities of natural materials.
With the draw weight down to 48#'s my consistent accuracy has improved at different ranges.Good things happen for me when I focus and get to full draw shooting as with most shooters.More then likely I will go to the woods with it this fall hunting.I figure to use heavy tapered dogwoods with as much weight forward as possible with a 2 blade broadhead.Good hunting arrows are precious.Especially wooden ones. (SH) :-D :G.
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Very nice work!
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Thanks Clint.It's one of those bows where the majority of the work is done before tillering.Not everybodies cup of tea but the rewards are pretty good.Always fun to make a bow in anticipation of the hunting season coming up.Only thing to do yet is make some killer arrows for hunting season.
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That is one sweet looking bow Ed. I just love those profiles, they look Awesome. I wish you the best refilling your freezer and restocking your rawhide and sinew supplies.
Bjrogg
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I sure wish you the best too BJ during hunting season coming up here.It's good to associate with people that use practically all the parts of the deer for a useful purpose.The deer population looks good here so far.Provided the deer don't get bit by that fly around these water holes during our drought here.It gives the deer a disease called blue tongue.It's nondiscriminatory and kills large adult deer.Time will tell to show it.In 2012 summer drought it hit the deer pretty hard in some counties in Iowa.
The bow I made here is just for that mainly.HUNTING.I wanted something with exceptional cast that was smaller,durable, & resilient for many years down the road besides impressing the FG boys at the shoots.The profiles can be accomplished with wood only BJ but at this length to get the stored energy to hold through the years of use and shots sinew and horn hold up better keeping early weight draw poundage and don't break down so much as wood only keeping it resilient.
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For those skeptical of humidity on sinewed bows.I carried this bow to Mo Jam 3 days this year.Hot and high humidity.An inch of rain fell saturday night too keeping it very humid.I saw no reduction in poundage/cast or reflex.With 10.5" of reflex on the bow that would of shown something you'd think.
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Not sure how I missed this one, great job on that bow.
I'd like to build a wood core horn bow without having to conform to any style
or material to be considered a replica. Thanks for sharing a lot of your process as well
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It looks even better in person. Great bow Ed :OK
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Thanks fellas.
Goat...I'm sure as with most all bows something like this has been done before.I enjoy seeing what natural materials are capable of as you've shown yourself with excellence.Granted even though certain construction rules do apply on designs I don't really like to restrict myself worrying about a certain label for it.Written insight before me definitely contributed to this build along with experience making self bows.I build to please myself for my use within my capabilities which I think is the general overlapping common thread here on the result.Keeping an open mind and making these with good results learning something along the way opens the book farther for me to continue.
It was fun jawing with you at MoJam Aaron.There is no doubt in my mind the degree of understanding and attention to detail you have will set us back in our seat with your work on horn bows as it has with self and laminated bows.
If anyone is curious about this build the details I would gladly correspond with them about it. (SH)
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Not sure how I missed this one, great job on that bow.
I'd like to build a wood core horn bow without having to conform to any style
or material to be considered a replica. Thanks for sharing a lot of your process as well
That's what I really like about this one Ed. It just really looks like a great shooter that should last many years. I like your building it for myself, for myself aditude and results.
Bjrogg
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Yes BJ I agree making bows is a sort of personal thing with everyone as long as it is safe/durable and performs to their liking.
To round out the project the hunting arrows to be used are dogwoods.3 on the left[yellow & barred] from last year and 4 more[red & white] made lately.Parabolic shaped 4.25" length feathers.A little over 4" ahead of center balance on the shaft with 145 grain steel broadheads.Spines are the same even with the weight difference because of the full length tapering.50 to 55 pounds.They all fly clean and like darts.They stay straight also over time.I attribute this quality because of the extended time I let these dogwoods season straightened[over 2 years].Best from scratch arrows I've ever made from shoots.My arrows are nothing fancy looking.Performance is the priority.Just like my coondogs used to be.All that's left is practice occasionally and the 0 to hero scenario of the deer getting into the right spot.I usually only carry 4 arrows with me at a time hunting though.Knowing some may be lost or broke through the season.Hopefully all of us will reshow what our handy work did on the shooting and hunting thread with success.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1784_zps7fgkxzuv.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1784_zps7fgkxzuv.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1788_zps1ez7cmsx.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1788_zps1ez7cmsx.jpg.html)
You can see the 4 string nocks on the right with the red & white fletching are narrower[a shade under 5/16"] because of the full length taper.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1786_zpsokn2yv3o.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1786_zpsokn2yv3o.jpg.html)
The yellow feathered 623 grain arrow was the one I shot a nice buck with.Kind of that lucky arrow guess you could call it.Still has remenants of blood on the shaft.The broadheads are glue-on stoss and zwickey blades.
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What a set up Ed! Very nice work buddy!
Patrick
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I'm sure everyone can remember when they first started making bows.I know I can.Did we ever think it would come to the degree of bow making that we currently are doing?I know I did'nt.Without this site I'm positive we would'nt be making the bows we curently are. To have a goal for something it seems pushes the envelope for all of us.Fine tuning equipment for hunting is it for me along with shooting with my buddies at the shoots.Along with it too the site of that arrow flying true to it's mark.
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Through hunting season here I have learned to brace this bow without the use of the peg board using the primitive stringer.The peg board will come in handy though later on.From 10.5 inches of reflex a steady hand is needed for that steep of an angle.As steady even pressure in the beginning using 2 hands to around brace height is achieved holding it in place with one hand is not hard then.Then it's just a matter of slipping the loop over into the tip groove.All pulling pressure is done with the right hand on the handle straight up.Left hand is there to just steady it in the beginning so that the pulling is straight up.Not at any angle.Once tips are flat and past intial set back of tips control is a lot easier.Using the stringer in reverse to unbrace it is easy enough then too.
I like using the primitive stringer because of the even pressure applied to both limbs while stringing.A good balanced method and a time saver too.It is a pretty safe way to string a highly reflexed bow also.Thanks to Robin some pics of the process.
(https://i.imgur.com/paRRwY2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QaGubmu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/slDbCfL.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Wej3cor.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5Tvpfcr.jpg)
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In a state like mine where you have to be unstrung to and from your hunting area when on public land it would make hunting with a bow like that a lot easer , Ed what's your guess on arrow count now on that bow ? Did you make that stringer custom for that bow ? Your bow is one of the few bows I have seen on here that would best some FG bows that's one heck of a hunting bow hope you poke something with it !
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Good enough questions Ritch.The stringer was made quite a few years ago for use on other reflexed bows I've made.It's just a nylon clothes line rope with vegetable tanned leather booties on the ends.I have others with different versions out of rawhide and different leather to long string bows before cutting string grooves and to reverse brace bows as they are sinewed.
At a minimum guess of 200 arrows a week since tillered 18 weeks ago somewhere's between 3500 to 4000 arrows so far.Usually bracing target shooting only 3 to 4 hours a day but while hunting 6 to 8 hours every day.She's broke in good enough for me.Returns full of spunk the following day as when made 18 weeks ago as it should.
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I have one of those stringers its a generale purpose comercial one but like the boots you made if I ever get up to speed on making one of those bows I will make a custom one given the the rules here It will be interesting to here given the reflex on that bow how much weight it picks up this winter when it drys out , one thing I have always thought abought that type of composite bow that you make Ed is its a more practical hunting bow then most composites in terms of field use ,stringing, unstringing etc
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thats a nice one,, sure the deer gonna love it,, (SH)
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Ritch...It actually has gained a smidge of draw weight from curing from tillering at 14 weeks to 32 weeks old now from sinewing.A couple pounds at most.The components into the bow are more durable and useful for being dryer.Hickory/horn/sinew.All these components don't mind and actually perform better being dryer through a winter.Composites can be a slightly fluctuating poundage type bow[but hardly noticeable] mostly depending on the care it gets and the barriers from moisture it has.Not really affecting the accuracy yet though.Like most natural material bows out there.
Brad...That's what I think too.I'll see what I can do with it.
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Very nice bow
Could stringing be a bit easier if you held the other hand at the static tip/limb transition when stringing, rather than near the handle? (like in the saluki bow faq)
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I get what you mean loon and good point but my left hand is'nt pulling any at all.My right hand is doing all the pulling dead center of the bow straight above my foot on the bracer.My left hand is just steadying it making sure that I pull straight up and not at any angle.Once the bow tips are flat the control gets easier to steady to brace.I'll see if I can state that with the pictures.
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I think I meant the same thing you're doing, but the only difference is that the left hand is closer to the tip.. I don't know if it'd help much, maybe it'd provide some more leverage to keep the bow aligned. But if it already feels safe enough and isn't getting twisted, it probably doesn't matter
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Yes I know what you mean.I've seen other people string bows up the way you describe too.Mostly D/R bows or recurved but not as much as this bow which makes it a bit more stable in the beginning.Being all reflex the intitial pull from over 10" in the beginning getting past the recurved part is the most critical part to get by.Once tips are flat staying stable is not hard.
Updated note about this bow as of 12/12/2018...It now mass weighs @ 17.05 ounces as is pulling 50#'s @ 28".It has cured just a bit more increasing efficiency to a certain degree while keeping all of it's original reflexed profile.
As of now at 2/25/20 bow draw weight is 51#'s @ 28".Mass weight is 17.00 ounces.I removed the finish on the belly of the horn.Looking at past records of construction the birch bark and glue weighed .55 ounces.So bare bones the bow's mass weight is 16.45 or a little less.Maybe 16.30 ounces after rest of finish is removed.It's still the same bow after 10's of thousands of arrows through it.Resting with 11" of reflex.Excellent shooter.