Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => ABO => Topic started by: iowabow on June 18, 2017, 06:41:15 am
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I started using a little different technique. This idea developed from four combining ideas. It is a very simple idea that I will try to discribe below. <
1. My laziness
2. A conversation with James Parker
3. A documentary from modern marvels
4. Tool making.
Basically I found a better way to be lazy. I never sharpen a flint knapping tool except the ulna bone just before notching. James Parker's tool kit has flakers that are more pointed than others and provide a finer handling and smaller surface contact. This is something not in my tool kit. The reason why was two fold laziness and process. My laziness helped me develope a process that provide a great cutting edge and really fast production techinque. I didn't want shapening and tool prep to be an element of the process. Well this turned out the be a really good way to make about 600 points. This does have a couple real drawbacks. The phase of preform to the halfway point is a wall that as an ABO knapper is hard to climb. I developed ways to work around this but an out of mass process means I can combine the two forms.
My old process was an into mass process. This needed a heavy tool and above center line orintation. A very sharp surface was the result and allowed the tool to never need resharpening. So the tip on the ishi was very rounded.
1. So the change was influenced by watching James cut a stone in half with an out of mass techniques (highly simplified statement). In and out are exchanged depending on his need. My process was "into" primarily due to a developed technique. I really liked his flat flakes and symmetrical form with cool patterns. During the classic I kept working a peice and talking to James about this process.
2. When I knap I just don't want to stop and sharpen a tool its that simple. When there is a way around I'm just not going to. But to make the next leap it was going to be important to work something out.
3.
Watching Modern Marvels "Worlds Sharpest" it showed how some wear created a sharper tool (the point is that a tool is made based on a wear process). But in my case a duller tool. The dull tool was the tool I spent time making in the first place with the old technique. So if I use new antler tips that are sharp and very hard for limited work torward the end with an out of mass technique I can accomplish two things. First, I can use flat flakes (less force is necessary due to surface contact) to super thin my 100 grain points and make an into mass tool (4, rounded tip tool) that is reminiscent of the old technique ishi stick tool.
This is just a simple adjustment and a basic concept addition that allowed me to drop this point from 170 grains to 100 grains with very little loss of length and width.
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I actually never sharpen anything but my punches and my one fine pointed antler tine flaker that I use for micro flaking edges sometimes. Other than that the maintenance I'm constantly doing is cleaning the tip up from chipping the antler or cleaning flakes that drove themselve into it. I've tried to strike a balance, a narrow enough tip to not have tons of contact surface and force you to use a corner which I don't like for most Ishi stick work but strong enough not to chip constantly. Really I think its my super aggressive force I use while popping of pressure flake passes that cause the problem tho. It doesn't bother me really :KN
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A few of us have been chewing on Parker's "into mass/out of mass" statements for the last couple years. I am trying to reconcile his theory with my reality and believe I'm sneaking up on something. I don't have any documentation yet, but I do feel like the concept has worked into my strategy a little and I'm profiting somewhat by the change. Obviously, most of JP's work is bone and stone so not everything he does translates into my copper heavy approach, but I take what I can and use it as it fits.
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I may burnish the tip of my antler, on a smooth hard flat surface of a rock, but not sharpen them at all. Ed
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This is really cool to have a group working on the concepts and it should expand. For me it made a huge difference and it was fun to follow the change with the grain scale and watch the point thin out like as if I had a copper tool in my hand although the memory of that has just about faded. It is a small change but a big difference.
Btw the flake patterns are crazy before you push the deltas off.
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Is it possible to sum up J.P.'s into/ out of mass theory? I have yet to come across that one.
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Is it possible to sum up J.P.'s into/ out of mass theory? I have yet to come across that one.
sure give me a minute
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Highly simplified; this is into mass if you are taking a set of flakes in the direction of arrow #2
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Out of mass taking flake on the dire tion of arrow #2
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Very highly simplified and has many variations.
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Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.
So you were having better success thinning with pressure using an out of mass approach, starting with more or less a completed preform?
Thinning with pressure is often one of my problem areas or perhaps stopping percussion thinning to early is to blame. More than likely it's a combo of the two.
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Aggressive thinning should happen with percussion down to 90%. If you use out of mass principles you can continue to reduce thickness more effectively than by running flakes up and over the mass of your point. This is a subtle thing and is better demonstrated than explained.
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Aggressive thinning should happen with percussion down to 90%. If you use out of mass principles you can continue to reduce thickness more effectively than by running flakes up and over the mass of your point. This is a subtle thing and is better demonstrated than explained.
Out of mass and into mass should be a mindset during percussion and transitionally into pressure. With antler you may transition sooner and cut the stone in half. With this I mean reduce it in thickness by 50%. How much percussion you need will depend on many factors. In some cases you will have a rock that will require a lot of percussion work while others may need very little before you start pressure it just depends. Kid ask away and if need be I can shoot a short video to explain things as you learn.
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Kid dont get to crazy about this in and out thing. It just makes my technique easier. The photo below is an into mass point and it is thin as heck for abo.
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If I'm switching to pressure too early it's only by a matter of a couple flakes.
I looked over the tutorial tower had put up and have been trying to have a flat preform when it's time to switch to pressure flaking. That has helped immensely with pressure thinning. I'll have to try a little intentional "out of mass" next time I'm in the pit and see if I notice a difference.
Typically, I just try to envision the flake I want to remove(where ever it happens to be) and approach it from where ever I need to put the flaker, whether it's into or out of mass. Half the time I pop the flake I wanted and the other half I end up with a pretty little step just before the bulk of what I wanted to remove. Perhaps eliminating some of the randomness of my approach would make things more predictable and effective.
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Don't worry I won't get too crazy. It was just some new interesting info that I wanted to make sure I understood before I attempted to try.
If there is one thing I learned it's that every knapper has a method they prefer and they can vary greatly. That being said, I still enjoy trying a new approach when I learn one.
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I have not had the oppourtunity to talk with JP or anyone about the out of mass technique but I have learned what you are describing on my own. As an added point I have found the the mass side will reduce flatter by flaking the length of the form rather than straight in working both A and B side. This helps to keep length and width. From the no mass side the thin edge is your center line so you are forcing your flakes from the center across and under the opposite side large mass. In order to make the edge strong enough not to crush on the thin mass side it will need to be grinded some which can reduce width some. In short take flakes from the thin mass side into and across the form but the mass side take flakes long ways until thinned enough to go in and across. Hope that makes sense.
Thanks for starting this theead, I think good info will come from it.
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Switching from percussion to pressure isn't a hard and fast concept. More than anything it depends on your skill with pressure and the hardness of the stone. I routinely stop percussion way earlier than most and many other knappers seem to express surprise at that when knapping with me. If you can undercut most stacks, hinges, and thick spots with antler pressure why risk swinging at it more. That being said, I don't generally go for cracker thin as they don't look as usable to me.
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Here's an older ugly preform I pressured into a point the other day. After the first pic everything is pressure flaking. If the second flute had gone a little further like I planned it would be quite flat.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/IMG_4410.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/IMG_4411.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/IMG_4412.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/IMG_4413.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/IMG_4415.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/IMG_4416.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/IMG_4417.jpg)
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(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/IMG_4418.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/IMG_4419.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/IMG_4421.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/IMG_4422.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/IMG_4424.jpg)
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Very happy to see these post keepem coming
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I used to go from percussion into pressure but I now have an intermediate step. After initial shaping and large reduction my next step is the indirect percussion. I can do specific thinning and removal with percise indirect percussion placement with isolated platforms. The third and final step is edge pressure flaking. After edge flaking I may return to some more indirect percussion using a fine tipped antler for specific ridge removal. To me, the measure of success is greatly dependant on the knappers ability to understand the rock he is working. They all have a style or technique that must be learned which is based on hardness, layering, type of grain and so on.
Any thoughts or opinions?
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I used to go from percussion into pressure but I now have an intermediate step. After initial shaping and large reduction my next step is the indirect percussion. I can do specific thinning and removal with percise indirect percussion placement with isolated platforms. The third and final step is edge pressure flaking. After edge flaking I may return to some more indirect percussion using a fine tipped antler for specific ridge removal. To me, the measure of success is greatly dependant on the knappers ability to understand the rock he is working. They all have a style or technique that must be learned which is based on hardness, layering, type of grain and so on.
Any thoughts or opinions?
completely agree with ya on how a stone kinda speaks to you or you read the stone as you work a point. Some stones allow you to get away with X and another won't. I do need mix in more indirect. Once I did a blade with punch flaking but kinda moved to another direct but it should not be over looked...a lot of good can come from it.
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After reading this thread, I watched one of my older abo videos and I think I use "into mass" strikes about 90% of the time. It's an interesting idea ( into mass - out of mass).
Here's the video:
https://youtu.be/jcmBm_rfM1s
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Jack,Jack is it really you? >:D Lets see some good stuff!
Zuma
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Yep, it's me. Here's my latest. 2-part video Revilla arrowhead. All abo.
https://youtu.be/QvEA_8LifNM
https://youtu.be/7EbuxfnM6cA
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:) :)
Yep, it's me. Here's my latest. 2-part video Revilla arrowhead. All abo.
https://youtu.be/QvEA_8LifNM
https://youtu.be/7EbuxfnM6cA
:) :) :KN )P(