Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bow of the Month Contest => Topic started by: Calendargirl on June 30, 2017, 09:42:10 am
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Those of you that enjoy and/or participate in Bow of the Month we have a new person who is now handling BOM. He is ready and willing and we are so excited he has stepped up to the plate.
If you have sent in any entries of Bows since the last contest, please resend to "Stickhead" - Tom Allen.
And give him a hearty welcome and a gracious Thank You! for coming alongside and keeping BOM going.
Calendargirl
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I'd like to thank Cipriano for all the time and effort he had contributed to BOM and to the PA site in general. Cipriano is a long time member and like most of our members he has contributed a great deal to this wonderful site. Cipriano stepped forward to take over BOM when it was needed and has done a great job with it but now it was time for someone else to take over the task.
Thanks Cipriano for all you've done for PA over the years. We all look forward to your contributions to PA in the future and to more snake skins as we need them.
I also like to welcome Stickhead, our new BOM moderator. Tom has volunteered his services to take over BOM. BOM is of the members and for the members so lets all welcome Tom to his new position and help him get through this transition. Without bows to post we don't have BOM so when you are finished with a new bow, submit it for BOM consideration. Don't think you are not good enough to submit a bow for BOM consideration. Everyone is welcomed to enter and all that is necessary is a full draw pic. Other pics are welcomed but you need at least a full draw pic to be considered. This is another way of becoming a better bowyer by knowing you will be going up against some of the best wood bowyers around so you will go the extra mile to make the best bow you can.
If folks that won BOM once or more and don't want to be considered for BOM just be sure you indicate "not for BOM" and Tom will not add your bow for consideration.
Now, let's get back to building bows and arrows and helping others learn how to be the best bowyers they can be. THats what it is all about...passing on the tradition of classic archery!!! :OK
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Well said PatB! Cipriano carried the mantle for a very long time and carried it well. We have had some awesome members step up over the years with this project that was started by Don Berg. We have greatly appreciated all that Cipriano has done for the BOM as well as the guys before him. It isn't a job for the faint at heart. We are pleased that Stickhead was willing to carry on the tradition of BOM.
If you have any ideas on what you want to see with BOM please send those on to Tom. Looking forward to seeing the new bow entries.
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Do you still need a subscription to the magazine to submit a bow to bow of the month? I know when i finish a good one i would like to submit mine, but i don't intend on getting the magazine so i thought i was out of luck, but then Pat was saying anyone can. So i don't know.
To clarify, i don't doubt the magazines are great and a lot of effort goes in to them. But, i'm young and i rely on the internet for my reading and have never subscribed to any magazine. I don't plan to either because I have never found interest in the ones i've picked up laying around. I guess i'm too ADHD and am very selective of what i feel i want to read or i loose interest fast, hence i realy on web searches to pull up what i would like.
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You do need a subscription, Greg.
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You can get an E-mag subscription at a cheaper price I believe. You can download it and read it whenever you want.
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Thank you, Cipriano for your service to BOM and thank you, Stickhead for becoming our new BOM moderator
Aaron
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You want to submit your bow for BOM consideration but you don't want to support the magazine that gives you this site. How does that sound to you, Greg? I've been ADD for 67 years and have supported PA since the magazine first came out over 25 years ago.
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I was biting my tongue, Pat B, but glad someone said it. Like you, though I am younger, I have been a subscriber since almost day 1. Do I agree with every article? No. Do I read every issue cover to cover? No. But they are the only publication out there for this hobby and this site is worth its wait in gold.
Kyle
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If participation is a concern I don't think forcing a subscription is the answer. Imagine if you had to subscribe to the magazine to enter or join this site. How far would it fall? As far as BOM has the last 4-5 years? I don't know if the mandatory subscription is what knocked BOM down or if it was just a natural down slide. I know I cant blame Cipriano for it, that is certain. I do know when BOM was "open" it was crowded with a lot of bows every month. It wasn't uncommon to have 8-12 bows in each category. Now we scratch to even get a head to head competition some months.
I wish we could set up a poll. Id love to know how many site users are also subscribers to the magazine.
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If participation is a concern I don't think forcing a subscription is the answer. Imagine if you had to subscribe to the magazine to enter or join this site. How far would it fall? As far as BOM has the last 4-5 years? I don't know if the mandatory subscription is what knocked BOM down or if it was just a natural down slide. I know I cant blame Cipriano for it, that is certain. I do know when BOM was "open" it was crowded with a lot of bows every month. It wasn't uncommon to have 8-12 bows in each category. Now we scratch to even get a head to head competition some months.
I wish we could set up a poll. Id love to know how many site users are also subscribers to the magazine.
Well we already know that doesn't work, been there done that.
Still how would you all feel if this board closed its doors permanently?
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Member contribution cant be measured by money sent to PA magazine. Greg contributes a lot to this site. Lets just say he takes offense to the above comments and leaves for good. Who wins?
Id like to see it opened back up like it was years ago and all parties will benefit, not just one.
I have a subscription, so this isn't personal. Its about healthy growth for both entities.
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Member contribution cant be measured by money sent to PA magazine. Greg contributes a lot to this site. Lets just say he takes offense to the above comments and leaves for good. Who wins?
Id like to see it opened back up like it was years ago and all parties will benefit, not just one.
I have a subscription, so this isn't personal. Its about healthy growth for both entities.
Obvious answer, no one wins, we all lose. However, this site takes money to maintain, and that money comes from PA magazine subscriptions and ads. For me, I am willing, and yes I feel obligated, to "pay to play." No different than going to a benefit dinner where there is no charge, just a donations jar. Some people will leave a 5, some leave a 100, some eat and run.
No offense was meant, but that does not mean none will be taken. I am hoping we an have a discussion without too much emotion.
Kyle
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That's why I typed it, Kyle. To open some dialogue and hopefully constructive.
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I have to agree with Kyle. PA Magazine needs our support. Subscriptions support and advertising supports PA Magazine. They have supported us for many years with this forum and all they ask is for subscriptions and/or advertising to help out. They even made it easier by offering on line subscriptions for those who don't want a hard copy. If they were a large corporation with millions of subscribers and multiple advertisers it would be a different story (those guys would probably have even stricter rules) but PA is a Mom and Pop business that actually struggles trying to keep things going for us.
As far as BOM goes, of course it has helped PA Magazine because folks like to see all the beautiful bows we post and we all like to see ourselves in the magazine...but without the magazine we wouldn't have BOM or this forum. Pay to Play is a good way to put it, IMO so if you want your bow to be considered for BOM I think your contribution isn't too much to ask. You do get to use this forum for free, you get info and advise on wood bow building, etc from some of the best of the best, heck I've even seen folks from the forum offer wood and other supplies to help a new guy(or gal) get started or get their first bow shooting.
I think this is a good discussion and believe me, it will stay civil...or else. :OK
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Hard copy $35 for a 1 year subscription
E-mag $25 for a 1 year subscription
That is a small price to pay for such a great source of information and access to all the experienced bowyers that are on this forum.
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I pay to play. Never won but I feel that if you want to have your bow voted on and published in the magazine if you win then absolutely you need to be a membership holder of the PA magazine or the E-Mag. That's just my 2 cents worth.
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I pay to not play, and just look at pretty bows and absorb as much information as possible. As a new person to the archery world I found it beneficial to subscribe. Though there seems a lot more unfortunate drama than I expected, which I didn't notice till after I subscribed. Can't we all just get along while looking at, and making, pretty and cool things. :BB
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Believe it or not, this is still one of the least drama filled sites on the net. But occasionally feathers get ruffled. Stick around, Tom, it will pass.
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At one time it was discussed that non subscribers be allowed to enter their bow but not have it printed in the mag if they won, didn't seem practical and that idea was canned.
I know that some people have used their winning BOM as a selling point when they want to sell that bow
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Emennis, not sure this is drama? I think its more about making sure all parties involved are happy. That includes the magazine, forum users, subscribers and non-subscribers alike. I clearly remember BOM being handled both ways. That's why I thought it a good idea to at least discuss it.
Marc, no doubt it has been used as a selling point for some folks. Be it the winning bow or just the fact a person won BOM.
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BOM is just one good reason to subscribe. There are many others. As far as I'm concerned this forum is PA greatest asset and they share it with us for free. Of course we do make this forum what it's is with its content. It's what do they call that a "symbolic relationship". PA Magazine also has some really good authors. I very much enjoy reading Ryan, Marc, Scott, Billy, Patrick and others. I am trying to help this magazine any way I can. I even wrote some articles myself and I believe many others on this site have their own stories to tell.
I got on this bus a bit later than a lot of you riders. I'm not always sure the bus is going the right direction but I sure do like the passengers. I really hope PA can keep this bus going and we can enjoy our riders and pick up some more. I understand there are some problems under the hood but so far I don't think it's anything that can't be fixed.
Bjrogg
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That's a perfect analogy, BJ.
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I was being more general, seemed at the beginning of this topic, as well as when I look at letter to the editor in the magazine, and the emails I got repeatedly this weekend about the BOM, were charged with emotions.
I like the magazine and the forum and even though I'm also late to get on the "bus" I too hope it will continue for a long while.
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Thanks Pearl, I truly understand your concerns.
Emennis, I'm really glad you got on board.
Bjrogg
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Okay, here's my 2 cents.
Personally, the only way I'm likely to get a BOM hat is to fly to Germany and go to one of Simson's yard sales. But that doesn't stop me from sharing my bows and occasionally entering. I love to get good feedback and suggestions from experts.
To my way of thinking, this site is the best knowledge-sharing tool ever available to this community. We can all access a plethora of information and feedback free of charge. Without PA magazine, who must profit to survive, it goes away. This is why I'm willing to donate my time to moderate the BOM contest -- to do what I can to help keep it alive.
I think that BOM is a great perk for those who help keep things going financially by paying for a subscription. If it helps to bring in a few more subscribers, great. And hey, we're talking about a whopping 6 cents a day, for Pete's sake.
If new subscribers don't like the magazine, they can always discontinue. But I suspect that most will become hooked like me, and look forward to every issue.
...Tom
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Didn't realize i would ruffle so many feathers. Like was said, i find that i get most of the benefit from the forums and I'm more than happy with how lucky we have it to be able to participate for free, heck even just being able to read. I was simply just trying to get a clarification, while also putting in my two cents on magazines in general. I've noticed BOM declining as well and was wondering if the magazine subscription wasn't the thing holding it back, i doubt its the fault of anyone supervising it as the issue is people submitting the bow. I get the play to pay principle. And if a subscription is required to enter i might just subscribe down the road for that reason alone. But i also think its wise, like pearl said, to have an open mind. Times are changing, the newspaper is practically going extinct, and i can see magazines following soon after as the younger generations get older. I did not know about the e-mag, so that sounds like a step in the right direction. I'm not offended, but please don't take offense here either.
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We do require the subscription to enter BOM. But we do have the eMag that is less expensive option. We run "flash sales" or specials on the eMag a couple of time a year. The most recent was just after Father's day. Well it was during Father's day on Facebook but I didn't send a message to all the message board members so I did a special for the message boards.
I have thought about doing a BOM special on the eMag for the next entry. I don't want to overburden people with messages in their inbox we don't send out a ton of "buy this or that" here on the message boards and PA has given the moderators pretty much free reign to handle things and not control too much.
We don't do a lot of flashy ads and try not to barrage the members. We have a sponsor for the arrows section and welcome more sponsors for the other sections but we are careful to not have an ad that interrupts your participation like other sites.
We welcome creative suggestions and solutions. If you all think a 3 day sale on the eMag for those that want to participate, enter, or even share with friends would be beneficial then I will ask Stickhead when the right time would be for the next set of entries and we can do one. I need the feed back on that though and we don't want to flood people with promotions. So feel free to let Stickhead or me know if it is worth it and if it will help those that can't afford a print subscription to participate.
We do appreciate our members and of course our moderators.
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Since i don't want to be one to complain without offoring ideas for solutions i thought i would take a stab at it. Although, i'm no business man and i don't know the full technicalities of running this site so i know these need to be taken with a grain of salt.
Metephorically speaking... if the lure isn't getting the bites, then maybe we should employ other bait. Albeit i don't know how successful the magazine is with new subscriptions so it's not my call to say whether it isn't "biting" or not. But regardless, there other options for revenue.
Going along the lines of bow of the month, what if the site hosted a biannual or even quartly auction where members can donate a bow to primitive archer then have them auctioned off the bows? The highest bidded bow could be considered the "winner" and all proceeds from all bows could go to PA as "appreciative payment" for providing such an excellent platform. I mean even if a bow goes for $100 how many years of subscriptions is that? Another idea is possibly including a section on this site for bowyers to sell their bows with a chunck of the proceeds going to PA for being the venue and advertisement. Obviously you would have to keep the forums clean of personal advertisement, but i still think it could be an option. With all the trading and gift giving that already goes on i'm more than sure a few would be willing to participate. But then again i'm no expert and i don't know what's been tried in the past, and in no way am i trying to tell anyone how to do things. Just offering ideas since i was the one to bring up this issue in the first place.
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And yes, sales and promotions are wonderful, but don't feel like you have to bend over backwards for the few stubborn heads like me. I also have noticed how "clean" the site is from annoying advertisements and don't find the ones we do have to be interfeering with the experiance. You are all doing great! Just offering feedback is all. Thank you.
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Gfugal, I certainly am not upset with you or anyone else who posted any response to this thread. Quite the contrary. I very much like to see different ideas brought up. I didn't mean for my response to be taken as a put down to those who didn't subscribe, just bringing up some of the reasons I do and feel it worthwhile. I subscribe to two magazines. This one and another very down to earth outdoor magazine. I like how both a of them are actually filled with good articles and not just advertising and articles that are advertising. I have know problem with BOM including non subscribers but if PA doesn't want to go this route I do understand.
I think you have brought up a topic that truly is a huge problem for traditional print magazines and news. Im a old fart that still prefers a printed copy with all the glossy pictures. I know many aren't of this same mindset. I think the e-mag should help fill that gap.
I don't think it's a matter of anything Cip did or didn't do. I very much appreciate the time and effort he put into BOM. i do wish PA and Cip could have worked something out that would have worked for both of them.
I sometimes feel if we could flood PA Magazine with so many great articles to print that they would have to go to 12 issues a year it might help. It seems to me that both subscribers and advertisers would like this. I have know idea how much this would add to the expense side of the ledger.
Getting back to the bus. I really hope this bus keeps running and picking up both new and it's old veteran riders. I can hear some not so good noises from under the hood. Some behind the scenes problems that only a few other than the mechanics know of. I certainly hope PA doesn't just put I piece of tape over the check engine soon light. I really don't want to lose these veteran riders, I don't feel it would be good for anyone. I have truly enjoyed working with PA Magazine and hope to be able to continue for many more years. Probably ruffled a few more feathers but I believe there are some problems that need to be addressed. Thanks to PA and all the members of this site that make it such a great place to hang out.
Bjrogg