Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Badger on July 04, 2017, 10:32:09 pm
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My son wants to help me with a bow making video. There are already some excellent videos on bow making that I don't feel I could really add anything to so I decided I would do one on no set tillering and bow mass. Maybe a few different style bows in a few videos. I also thought I would throw in a few little things I do that might be of some use. The only thing we are disagreeing on is that he is telling me he needs to edit down to about 5 min?? I was thinking more like 20 min maybe even 30 min. Any thoughts on this? Anything else anyone would like to see included in a video.
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I would like to see your no set tillering. How will the video be available?
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I'd like to see it too, Steve. I think the 20 to 30 minute would be best to be able to get the info across. Five minutes is just a tease. (--)
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I'd love to see this. As for how long it should be, it depends on your targeted audience. If it's mostly for folks who have made a successful bow or two and would now like to improve their craft by reducing set and understanding the mass principle 5-10 minutes might be enough. If it's for a true beginner there'd have to be a whole lot more time.
Cool idea doing something like this with your son. I hope it works out well for the both of you!
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I was just going to make it a you tube video. He suggested that he break the video up into a few short videos on different subjects. I am not really concerned with the amount of views as much as getting the information across more completely. I imagine we will end up compromising at 15 min or so. I have a few little gadgets I use I want to squeeze in. I haven't been making many bows the last few years and am kind of thinking about it like a goodbye type send off.
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I'd for one would like to see it too.
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I would also He is it for sure. Cheers- Brendan
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I would also love to see it Steve !
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I would like to see it also, as for the goodbye send off we don't want to hear that. ;) :)
Pappy
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Sounds good. I'd agree that editing is key, and best to edit into short digestible chunks.
IMO Most common editing fault is an over long intro' and too much dead time.
Watch a few vids from other people and pick out the mistakes.
One problem is that the subtleties we are used to looking at are hard to see or film.
No set tillering would be a great topic... I'd think the mass thing could get heavy... (I've never got into it).
Whether you do it as short individual vids or a sort of chapters, depends on how it will be published... Youtube? DVD?
Gotta remember that most people have a short atten.... oooh look a squirrel....
Del
PS Good luck, can't wait to see the rushes :)
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I would watch it. I've watched long videos that kept my interest and short ones where I wished they would hurry up and get to the point. That will be the challenge. I say shoot it first with as much info as you can, and see what you end up with.
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5 minutes!?!? You better talk fast Steve!
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Pappy, not a good bye in the sense that I am going away but more in the sense that I have kind of gone over the peak where I am not really learning much anymore and starting to get rusty at what I do know. I actually thought of a few more things that I thought might be worth passing on. Theory is great but even better when you can demonstrate it. One of the most interesting things I have come across in bow building is the concept of how many ways the amount of working limb can affect design. I thought it might be cool to build some slightly extreme designs just to demonstrate the working limb length concept and theory. Build two bows side by side both with the same unbraced profile but using different amounts of working limb.
One thing I had planned to do when I retired was to go around the country and hook up and build bows with guys from the PA site here and video the builds. My girlfriend was diagnosed with cancer about the same time I retired so it put all the plans on hold. She is doing pretty well now so I might be able to do a scaled down version of that. I have always thought it was better to do builds with someone that asks questions as you build, it forces me to do a better job of explaining things.
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No set tillering! I keep reading about it, but it is a bit abstract. Would rather see it done in action.
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Badger when I first got into all of this stuff I watched a lot of YouTube. I think it's great. Most videos are good to give you the basics. I would really be interested in watching what your proposing. I think probably would be best if YouTube video that you make a series of videos. Each could have a topic you could concentrate on. If you felt you needed more time on a topic you could still make another in its series. I agree with Del on the attention oh a bunny rabbit. I do think there is room in the bow making videos for more advanced techniques and methods. Keep us updated
Bjrogg
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Sounds good Steve, just don't upload it to photobucket ;D
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Mark, I let my son handle all that. I am not very computer literate.
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Sounds great, Steve. Jawge
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30 min is good )W(
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30 min and more if 30 doesn't cover it :D. Just don't try to stretch it out by talking when it ain't needed. ;D ;D
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I dont think your as rusty as you think there Steve you sure helped me understand working limb length on my last bow ! Good luck with the vid !
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Count me in. I would rather see it than read about it. Good luck with the videos and thank you for even considering making it.
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Stick Bender inspired me to add one more thing. You have helped me a ton in more ways than one. Every time you comment on a topic I copy it and paste it to a Word document just so I can refer to it later (don't worry, it's just for my own reference, I'd never use it any other way without your permission). My point is, you have incredible insight into this craft (perhaps even more than you know) and any way you can pass it on would be very valuable indeed. :)
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You need to do this Steve. I think a lot of us would really benefit from it. I tend to agree with your son on breaking it up into smaller segments. It would probably help get it across to the younger generations. Super looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with!
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I would take whatever you're willing to put out, including a full-on DVD which I'd pay whatever for.
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I would take whatever you're willing to put out, including a full-on DVD which I'd pay whatever for.
I wouldn't even consider charging for something like this. I have gotten far more out of this community than I could ever hope to give back.
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I would love to see a bow making video by someone with your skills. The twenty to thirty sounds better to me than 5 minutes. I have long been an admirer of your bows and knowledge in making them. Can't wait.
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I would buy a dvd hard copy too. You tube is great but it is a bit ephemeral, no guarantee I will be able to look at years down the track.
There are plenty of books and dvd's about bowmaking, nonetheless I appreciate the finer details that a different perspective brings. I still think their are plenty of bowyers from the Renaissance of modern bowyers that should put their perspective in print or on hard copy. Sure Bowyers Bibles are great, but there is still more to learn. Imagine if the late, great Dean Torges, didn't publish his book and dvd's?
English bowyer Chris Boyton is another bowyer whom I would like to see a book on. He was taught bowmaking by the last indentured bowyer, Richard Galloway(apprentice to master guild system)He published some articles in The Glade magazine
a decade or more ago. It was really exciting to see his approach, some of the designs, approach to reflex, and wood selection had not been covered anywhere else. It would be good to see a new book from him too.
I think Marc St Louis could write a fine book as well. A complilation of his work from PA website and from the print magazine. There's a thought for you somewhere down the track Marc?
Steve(Badger) must be one of the most prolific bowyers of all time(alongside Tim Baker). The information he has gleaned from his labours would be a excellent subject for a dvd, and a boon for bowyers of the present and the future.
Badger you could start do a Kickstarter campaign for fan funding, to help you cover the costs of production, maybe compensate you a little for your hardwork and intellectual property?
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I say go for it😉
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I am going to start the first one right away. I thought I would go over what I will be doing here and am open for suggestions. I intentionally selected a piece of wood and a design that will challenge me to put my own theories to work.
The wood will be Massaranduba ( Bullet wood) backed with bamboo. I chose the bullet wood because it is very dense but not particularly stiff. Overall it behaves very well and is not prone to chrysaling but will take set readily if overstressed. It is very hard to manage the mass of the bow with this wood and they often tend to come in heavy, if they are made too narrow they will take excessive set.
The design I chose is 1 1/8 wide, 66" long, 10" stiff handle and fades and about 4" glued in reflex. The goal is 50#@28" but I am open to lowering the weight as necessary depending on how the wood responds. I would normally start this bow off at 1 1/2" wide knowing the wood as I do and my preference for short working limb areas. I figure with this extra narrow design it will start exhibiting challenges that I will have to deal with early on and the film will be how I use no set tillering and mass to address the problems.
Here are the steps I will be taking and not really sure how many of them I should video.
I lay out the bow, glue on a handle and cut out the blank on the band saw }
I flatten a strip of bamboo and cut it to match the blank } I would rather ship these stage
I use a simple form for the glue up with tightbond and inner tube strips. }
I take the bow out of the form and clean it up on my belt sander and bring it very close to floor tiller, checking the mass at this stage.}
Tillering starts} This where I would like to start filming, If anyone was interested in the above stages I could cover them briefly
Open to suggestions.
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I would gladly accept it all, but no set tillering is where I would be most interested. Thanks Steve!
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The more the merrier. Cheers- Brendan
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You could film or photograph the early stages, but show it as a series of stills or speeded up. I think it would be good to show how thin the bamboo should be (so many make it too thick) and also a good strapped glue up,(so many don't use enough strapping)
Del
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I guess my suggestion would be film lots and edit lots. You can't show what you don't have filmed, but you can't show everything so you'll have to edit stuff out. Just a few quick shoots can really go a long ways.
Bjrogg
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I guess my suggestion would be film lots and edit lots. You can't show what you don't have filmed, but you can't show everything so you'll have to edit stuff out. Just a few quick shoots can really go a long ways.
Bjrogg
Del, on a real stiff wood like ipe and some other tropicals I will often leave the bamboo a bit thicker to avoid using a core. The belly slat needs to be thin enough to accept the bends I am glueing it up in. I kind of play the thickess as I need to.
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"Del, on a real stiff wood like ipe and some other tropicals I will often leave the bamboo a bit thicker to avoid using a core. The belly slat needs to be thin enough to accept the bends I am glueing it up in. I kind of play the thickess as I need to. "
Badger, That's the exact type of detail I was talking about, the little nuances that many take for granted but are so often left out. Great stuff... this is going to be really good!
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Steve, the more the better. A short video showing how you do the prep work might be a good way to work your way into the no set tillering and mass theory. You said that you layout and prep the bamboo to match the belly wood... which is the opposite of how I built every bamboo backed bow I've made..? I always flatten the bamboo enough to layout my pattern on it, cut it to shape, then flatten it the rest of the way. I taper a full width belly slat and glue the bamboo in the center of it. I use the bamboo as my pattern to shape the belly wood... so I'm very interested in your ideas on all of it.
thanks!
You can come to MoJam again when you start traveling!
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Is it done yet? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I would love to see both no set tillering and one on the mass principle. I would watch however long it took to give enough detail to make a beginner understand.
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Yes that would be great if it included the Mass principal ,that's my most valued chapter in TBB !
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I will probably get started on one when I get back from my flight shoots in September. I wanted to do one getting bows ready for the shoot but once I started working on bows it was hard to stop. I will be getting a little training on the filming and editing process so hopefully by the first of the year I will have something.