Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: Archeryrocks on July 11, 2017, 09:53:41 am
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Okay so I've asked about elk before but I'm curious I have made a 58 lb bow with lightly flipped tips I draw only 24 inches and I'm shooting an arrow 597 grains with about 26% foc speed of the arrow is I would guess around 150 fps plus or minus. I hoping to take a deer with this set up this year bit the ke and momentum calculators say this bow combo isn't quite up to the task for elk I would like some other opinions would this work?
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It's all about placement ......I think it's good with the right placement at 15yds or less.
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If you could squeak another few inches of draw length you would much farther ahead. That being said, I cant see how a 58# bow at that draw length wouldn't take an elk out with a good hit. But, I've never elk hunted.
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I wish I could comfortably draw 25 to 26 inches but to do that I'm drawing to my ear which diminishes accuracy. Conventional wisdom would say that me being 5'7" I would draw 26 inches I measure from the belly side of the handle just like if it were on the tillering stick and after consistent measurements drawing to my cheek I get 23.5 to 24.
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Haven't hunted elk, but I think a steel broad head well placed will do the job. I think most draw length is marked on the back of the bow, so I think your 26" is about right.
Hawkdancer
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I uses a 56@26" sinew backed osage bow both times I went elk hunting. No elk showed up either time but I was confident with my set up when I went.
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If you could put me on an elk I would be glad to test it for you..... (AT)
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I haven't personally hunted elk yet I live in Utah, and I want to but I haven't done it yet. That's why I'm questioning because it's all pretty new to me
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I would have zero reservations if I were you. Keep your shots under 25 yards and I see no issues. A razor sharp 2 blade steel broad head doesn't take much to penetrate. I believe fresh whitetail hide requires 1.9# of kinetic energy to pierce.
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As others said, it's mostly all about shot placement- how big are your groups at 15 yards? 25 yards? How did you estimate your arrow speed? 150 fps at only 24 inches draw makes that bow way above average. Your arrow is pretty heavy for your setup. If I were you, I'd shave 100 grains off that arrow and retune. Also, keep your shots close enough that your groups at that distance are all within a paper plate.
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I'd shoot and elk with that set up any day. range and shot placement, are a given and should be with any weapon used. Good Luck! Ed
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I am using a 100 grain zwicky 2 blade boadhead modified with a Tanto point and right single bevel grind on the blade. I then have that on a 125 grain adapter. With a 1.75 inch aluminum footing On beman centershot arrows which are 9.6 gpi I have 3 3" a and a style fletching for this arrow the only way to remove weight would be on the point but that would make the spine way too stiff. The arrow is tuned quite well I know that they say not to but at 10 yards I have shot the broadhead on bare shafts with no change in point of impact. My group at 10 yards is less than 3 inches with 6 arrows most of the time I can get at least one set with all six arrows touching. I'm still getting used to shooting longer distances. We just got a pass to an outdoor range near our home.
I estimated the arrow speed based on a bow that I know shoots 134 to 136 fps and this seems to shoot faster than that I tried to go to my local sportsman's warehouse to chronograph it but someone had put an arrow into their chronograph. So I haven't had a chance to actually test the speed.
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Clarification the broadhead was a 135 grain 4 blade zwicky that after modification is now 100 grains. These were my grandpa's broadheads so it was what I had available and I took care while modifying the blade to avoid changing the temper of the steel. Although zwicky tends to have a softer temper than I would like. It still takes and holds a shaving sharp edge
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yes its enough,, a fast flight will get you more fps,, but that arrow weight and bow seems fine to me,, (SH)
shoot it though a chrono so you know for sure what its doing,,as suggested if you could go to 25 inches,, it would shoot a bit harder as well,,
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Sounds like a lot of fun.Your set up of poundage of the bow and weight of the arrow with the foc distribution which is great and draw length should do the job speed and penetration wise.All this except for the 4 blade arrow head.I feel a good 2 blade grizzly would be better or your 2 blade tanto single bevel grind sharpened well.
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I'd ditch the four blade broadhead, also.
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I would ditch the 4 blade too. A good, scary sharp 2 blade is your best bet.
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The broad head was a 4 blade but I took the extra bleeder blades off when I modified it to a single bevel 2 blade that weighs 100 grains with a 125 grain glue on adapter. I appreciate people with experience reassuring me that it should be enough. I have no experience with elk hunting yet. I am hoping to go out with some neighbors to do some scouting this year. My wife and I have a total of three deer tags this year one archery doe tag and 2 muzzle loader buck tags so with meat processing and tanning hides I'll have quite a bit on my hands I'm planning on using these same arrows for the doe this year. If it all goes to plan then my very first big game animal will be taken with traditional equipment.
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Have fun and wish you luck.
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Having the balance point of the arrow Forward Of Center will help too. Do much reading on hunting arrows and the acronym FOC shows up a lot. Measure the arrow from end to end and put a little pencil mark on the measured dead center point. Now balance the arrow on your finger, sliding the arrow forward and backward until it balances. Mark that point now. if that point is, you guessed it, forward of center, then you are better off.
High FOC scores mean the wieght of the arrow "pulls" the arrow along behind. It also means that the lighter end (fletched end) has less mass so that the archer's paradox recovers more quickly and the arrow stabilizes at a shorter distance. It has an added benefit of making a slightly more accurate arrow, too.
Dr Ashby's research on thousands of head of game shot with arrows in Africa has two major points, namely 1) cut on contact, two bladed single bevel matching rotation of the arrow and 2) high FOC scores.
If you got that, all you gotta do is see to it the package is delivered to the right address!
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I didnt see the 4 blade, I agree ,, 2 blade would be my choice with that set up,,
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The broad head was a 4 blade but I took the extra bleeder blades off when I modified it to a single bevel 2 blade that weighs 100 grains with a 125 grain glue on adapter. I appreciate people with experience reassuring me that it should be enough. I have no experience with elk hunting yet. I am hoping to go out with some neighbors to do some scouting this year. My wife and I have a total of three deer tags this year one archery doe tag and 2 muzzle loader buck tags so with meat processing and tanning hides I'll have quite a bit on my hands I'm planning on using these same arrows for the doe this year. If it all goes to plan then my very first big game animal will be taken with traditional equipment.
Arceryrocks...Sorry I misunderstood that you had made the modifications to your broad head.If you can fulfill at least some of your tags that would be great.Good luck.A lot of meat on a good sized elk compared to a whitetail,but a bit more work though too which is understandable.
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Archeryrocks,
Good luck with the deer and the elk! We drew "long season private land "doe tags over here in Colorado, and I think we are going to try archery and muzzleloading. Making meat is another part of the equation :-D (SH) :NN! You do have to consider the "elk math theorem" when trying to get an elk out
"One guy 33, and one guy, 66, does not equal 3 guys 33!" Been there, done that >:D! I would just like to. Get a shot this year! Again, good hunting!
Hawkdancer
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It does not take a lot to penetrate 10 inches and double lung an elk. Close shots and hits in the kill zone.
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I've never elk hunted but shoot with fellas who do and have with success with long bows.An elk has quite an engine and can go quite a ways at times.Getting a pass through would be desireable for ease of blood trailing reasons but not neccessary.
It's a great challenge but doable.Good Luck.Post your results!!!
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I have personally shot two elk in the shoulder with a wheel bow and it stops them dead. Point is, if you dont hit behind that shoulder bone it really doesnt matter. As Will Primos says, you shoot one through the lungs and they are like babies. Your high FOC should carry that arrow through the lungs with ease. Your job is to put it into the lungs and know the distance that you can. They are big animals and get bigger on the ground. You are following the right path with your arrow choice, two blade beveled and high FOC. Good Luck on getting close and placing the shot. I'll add that you should get you a Havalon Blade for skinning and cutting. Thise surgical blades are worth having!
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Good Luck to all you guys. Archeryrocks best of luck to you sir, I have total confidence if you do your part your equipment will do it's part. Just put it in the right spot and hopefully a quartering away shoot if at all possible. Really helps get that front leg and shoulders out of the way make the sweet spot bigger and helps for drawing your bow. I've never hunted Elk but my brother has taken 3 with compound. I really have to build him a selfbow this winter. Happy Hunting everyone, have fun and take lots of pictures.
Bjrogg
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Dr. Ashbys research should be required reading for all bow hunters. One part that I found interesting is about how more penetration a true flying arrow will get compared to one that is wagging its tail. With that said you can get better penetration sometimes at say 25-30 yards than at 5 with the same set up. There are many more things that help or hurt arrow penetration.
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tuning the set up to your best is key,,
sharp,, shaving sharp,, sometimes a sharpening steel with put the final edge on with ease
put electracal tape on the heads you are not gonna shoot to keep them sharp,,
my friend forgot to take it off and killed large boar with the tape still on,, so not totally necessary but I would advise taking the tape off before shooting at game,,
carry a small file or stone for touch up if you need too,,
a fast flight will add to your set up performance,, every fps you gain,, is like adding a # of draw weight,, something to think about,, would make your set up shoot like a 5 to 7 pound heavier bow,,
keep your silencers to a minimum,,
and shoot the lowest brace you can with perfect arrow flight,, it shoots harder at the lower brace,,
if your arrow is really sharp and you hit right you gonna kill the elk for sure,, :)
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I don't have a chrono... So I shoot my bows for distance. I shot an elk last year with a maple selfbow that would cast an 500 grain arrow 170 yard. The arrow I used to take the elk was a 30", 570 grains cedar shaft footed with 6" of purple heart. I shot it at 28(ish) yards. It was quartering at me and I slid the arrow in just behind the shoulder and into the liver. It penetrated 16". I don't know if it broke a rib because I didn't check. We hunt public land and hoof it on foot. So it was all work when I got to it.