Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bradsmith2010 on August 23, 2017, 08:23:09 pm
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well 20 plus years ago when the BB1 came out,, I thought why would anyone wanna shoot one of those,,
ok so now my favorite bow is Ishi inspired, and shaped a bit like the west coast bows and I love it,,
so I was thinking there must be something to those little bows that are so wide,, and short,,
I was looking at some of the arrows today, and some are quite long,, I am sure not intended to be drawn that far,,
but with the recurved tips I am thinking they were made to be drawn more than half the length of the bow,,but how far,,
the bows depicted in Steve Alleys chapter are nicely reflexed as well,, so I was thinking they probably shot pretty hard,,
the self bows were a little longer one even 54 inches long,, but had really nice recurves on it,,made out of oak,,,, ,,so I was thinking it would easy draw 25 inches and that would be a nice power stroke,,
did they shoot a pinch grip to account for finger pinch on those short 36 inch bows ,,,, or what ,,
I have never made one,, but seems like a fun project to see just how they perform,, hoping some that have made them will chime in,,,thanks for listening, B
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These bows have always been an obsession of mine, and were was one of the first bows I ever made. Its a modoc style bow ,44" long and pulls 54 lbs @ 25", and take no set, and is not reflexed at all, and not the best tiller job ever.
I know in the bowyers bible it mentions some of the arrows had sinew wrapping in the middle of the shaft which may have been for a draw indicator for these long arrow, and theses wrappings were around 25" form the nock.
These bows shoot light arrows "pretty fast", but wont touch a longer bow, and not the easiest to shoot, but they are fun.
I think they were shot with the style of shooting Ishi shot, but im not sure, as the only photo I have seen of a west coast bow being shot, is the photo of Ishi shooting one of his bows. I shoot mine in the Mediterranean style because I cant seem to get the native style down.
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From all i have read, Ishi is one of the only west coasters to shoot a thumb release, i cant say how many used a pinch or drew to there chest
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thanks HD,, thats what I mean ,, your bow is 44 inches long but you drawing it to 25,,,,most would think you need a 50 inch bow for that, is yours sinew backed,,??
yea Bubby that is what I was wondering too,,
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Yes, it's sinew back. I don't remember how much in weight, but it was two layers is all. It's pretty amazing what they can do. It's my oldest bow I have with lots of arrows through it and it's held up.
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I think the west coast bows are the prettiest all over the world. I dunno know how they were shot. I always get a mild laugh when I go shooting on a range with that a short bow - until I make the first shot, then people ask about the bow.
long arrows: give a much more stable flight, esp. if the handle is wide and spine is low
Here are two examples of mine:
sinewed Elm 53#/26",49"long
(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/DSC0017-3.jpg)
(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/DSC0001-420x600.jpg)
(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/DSC0006-4.jpg)
more: http://primitive-bows.com/elm-west-coast-5326-no-17/
and a sinewed yew was 58#/23, gained weight now over 65#, 43,5" long
(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/P1010590_zps738dce38-1.jpg)
(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/P1010586_zps3d1dfd92-1.jpg)
braced
(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/P1010579_zpsaf6c26f8-1.jpg)
unbraced, 6" reflex
more: http://primitive-bows.com/yew-west-coast-paddle-5822-no-26/
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those are beautiful,,the art is very nice,, I hope to have a piece of yew to try one with,,
how much sinew did you put on,, ??
the more I study the art of the designs, the more impressed I am with the simple expressive beauty,,
have you ever shot one through a chronograph,,???
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Brad, I haven't shot them through a chrono yet, but both seem to be very fast. The elm is more comfortable to shoot - longer draw and not so much weight (finger pinch).
The yew comes from a really marginal stave. It is cut out of the middle section of the diameter to get the 2" width I wanted. This caused that the outer parts of midlimb is only sapwood (but no problem). The wood was sanded down pretty thin to about 5 mm or so (dunno remember exactly), it was very floppy before the sinew. For a reason i don't know this bow gained weight excessively (the elm didn't). Now I wonder if the tips are holding together, maybe a rawhide wrap is useful...
I think you don't need the best wood to go for a paddle bow, but the sinew is what matters. On mine it is nearly 50:50 wood /sinew. I aimed to get it on very even.
I'm waiting for your west coasters! I know we will see beauties coming out of your shop.
Check also Cesars website, he also made some. And if I remeber right also Chuck. Links are on my site.
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Very neat project you have going there Brad nice bows there Simson I will be waiting for updates where you going to cut the yew stave you have or where getting another ?
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probably gonna get a shorter stave from Carson,, (SH)
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This is the modoc style bow I mentioned earlier. This was the second bow I ever made, so it's not the best tiller, The upper fade is kinda of stiff, but it has held up well. Keep us updated if you decide to make one. I love seeing these bows when people make them
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The Miwok replicas are the bows I have drawn the furthest. I've drawn and shot 40" bows 25". After unstringing they return to reflex. Of course you will start to see some signs of the wood cells breaking down on the belly after a few hundred shots. Even after running a caliper up the limbs. I start with a weak core of juniper or incense cedar. The core probably has about a 25# draw. I've found 5 layers of sinew works best. I put on 3 layers- wait a week then put on 2 more. With a light core it draws the bow to a big reflex. My main bow now is this miwok hook nock style. Lenticular cross section. Not much over 1.5" max limb width. It's 49" and draws 46# @ 26". Juniper with 5 sinew layers. Recurved and reflexed. It is almost 2 years old now and has been shot thousands of times. I'm just staeting to see what might be belly frets. Yew is harder for me to get and after spending so much time on a beautiful painted Hupa replica I don't want to see how far I can push it. For a 41" bow I will set full draw at 21-23". I had a 48" sinew backed yew bow years ago I shot at about 25" draw. One day I took it all the way to 28" draw. It did not break but lost a lot of power after that.
With the bent tab and hook nocks of the west these bows can draw to a huge overdraw without the string slipping off. After making so many of these I would think how far they were drawn depended on the owner. Just like today, some people push their equipment to the extreme and ofter need to replace it.
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Im just curious as far as tiller goes when making one of these do you cut your arrow pass area during ruff out & adjust thickness as you go or wait to cut the arrow pass area after you into the tiller ?
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Here is a good example of one of Chuck's I was lucky enough to receive in last years bow trade, Not sure the length but I think in the high 40 inch range and about 50@25 I draw it around 24 and it has shown no problems and shoots a hunting weight arrow with authority. It is Juniper, sinew backed. Beautiful bow. I plan on hunting with it this year, I was going to last season but had some trouble with arrows , but I have some now that fly like darts. ;)
Pappy
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hey Pappy, nice bow, what arrows does it like,, (SH)
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That bow will look great laying across a fat Tennessee doe. Good luck with it Pappy.
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Man those bows are absolutely amazing works of art! I'm lucky enough to have a great anthropology museum near me that has a good collection of plains and west coast bows so have seen some originals up close. It amazes me to think of the ingenuity that went into the development of these designs- absolute genius! :)
I have a couple of really knotty Yew staves with very thick sapwood. They are quite wide and so I'm wondering if I could use the heart wood for a sinew backed paddle bow. Is it feasible to use kitty yes heartwood as the core of such a bow? 8)
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Knotty staves aren't an issue, within reason of course. Strip the sapwood and create a nice even back, no reason to bother with anything close to a a growth ring.
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Cheers Eric I'll give it some thought. I've been wondering what to do with those staves for a couple of years- dunno why I didn't think of it before! I'll have to improve my tillering skills before starting a sinewed bow though! ☺
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High Desert,, do you leave the knots proud,, or do you smooth them down,,???
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When I smooth out the back, I treat it like there are no knot. I'm looking for symmetry with these bows, not following growth rings, dips or rises in the wood. I'm talking about your typical pin knots, not huge loose nots. If it's a sold knot, up to a half in or so, and probably larger, they have never caused any issue with any yew I have worked. Since these knots will only be on the belly, they cause no issues, even if they are on the edge.
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thats very interesting, and sounds scary to my old school train of thought,, but I will give it a try when I have a stave that alows,, thanks for the info,,
:)
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Awesome bows guys.
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Love your short bows Simon! Beautiful tiller and impressive draw weights!