Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: leonwood on September 22, 2017, 08:01:39 am

Title: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 22, 2017, 08:01:39 am
If you get bored of my long stories, skip to the bottom for lots of pics;-)

Lately I am on a self bow kick but I have always wanted to try a static laminated recurve. So in-between some self bows I started this one.
My lam bows are almost always backed with bamboo and for the belly I use either massuranduba or ipe. Since I only have access to hand tools (Except for a cheap belt sander) I decided on only two lams for this one to make sure I had enough belly wood to shape when tillering. I know there are lot of guys who make laminated bows with extreme precision which come out of the form and are ready to string up. This is not how I do it. Basically I laminate the rough form into a bow stave and from that work on it as I would with a self bow. The obvious advantage is of course that you can easily add reflex and deflex shapes at glue up.

Now gluing in a static recurve is a little different since you canít bend ipe with heat and you canít bend a thick piece over a tight radiused form without breaking it.
So after some googling around for info I stumbled upon an old thread by Justin Snyder. He used kerf cuts to bend recurves in ipe. This basically works by cutting your tips in half and thereby creating two thin lams which are still attached to your bow;-) So I got the handsaw out and cut my lams in half, then stuffed some very thin ebony I had laying around in between with some glue and clamp it on the form. By far the easiest recurves I have ever made!
After drying they looked great but where still a little thin so I added a piece of ash to stiffen up the recurves a bit. Rasped the transition from the ash with the belly smooth after drying and then glued up the bamboo and the powerlam. The reflex/deflex was glued in by using a few different height blocks and clamps.

After that I added some leftover contrasting woods as a handle and started tillering as normal. The only problem I had was that during the glue up the bamboo at both tips had shifted a bit (left them a little too thick at the tips for the tight recurve radius) This was a problem because bamboo has a bit of a crown and since it was not really centered at the tips anymore one side of the bamboo will be thicker when you shape the tips to final width. So after first stringing the tips bent over to the side as expected. I did leave them wide so after some shaping from opposing sides and a little from one side of the belly (on the strong side) I got them back in line.

For the finishing: The bamboo I used is already caramel coloured and I added some brown paint to the nodes and tips. Sanded the sides after that and added some layers of Danish Oil for the finish. Dulled the shine a bit with super fine steel wool.

// stats
Backing: Moso bamboo
Belly: Ipe
Powerlam: Bamboo flooring
Handle woods: Maple, wenge, bamboo flooring
Tip inserts: Ash, mahogany
Tip overlays: Ipe
Length: 63Ē ntn
Max width: 1.5 inch
Draw weight: 55#@28Ē
Finish: Danish oil


// profiles
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4396/36985261870_75b81d8052_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ymg8NN)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4441/37211059712_6857ff6593_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YGdpD3)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4401/36570760983_6b75e8880b_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XHCH8M)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4378/36570761563_93a8eed6cb_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XHCHiM)


// braced
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4403/37211060352_be5f2e0458_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YGdpQ5)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4366/37211060432_bada5d86ca_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YGdpRs)


// tips
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4393/37211061002_231b621243_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YGdq2h)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4374/37211060582_04697367f0_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YGdpU3)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4392/37211060152_2b0fb244a8_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YGdpLC)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4481/37211060122_cb736be421_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YGdpL7)


// belly
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4350/37211061242_f925ec426d_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YGdq6q)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4361/37211060862_7385152fc3_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YGdpYS)


// handle detail
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4405/37211061682_3c2b867cd7_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YGdqe1)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4344/36985265350_563ef7b1cb_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ymg9QN)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4496/37211061542_11cab186b2_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YGdqbA)


// fd
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4339/37211061932_b4d533dd2c_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YGdqij)
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: mikekeswick on September 22, 2017, 08:17:48 am
Very nice indeed :)
Respect for doing it with hand tools. Kerfing is a great trick with the non-heat bending woods.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: BowEd on September 22, 2017, 08:42:13 am
Yes a very nice bow and technique.Your cranking them out lately.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Badger on September 22, 2017, 08:44:20 am
  Beautiful bow, I wonder how far it would throw a 500 grain arrow. Looks like a good candidate for flight shooting.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: upstatenybowyer on September 22, 2017, 10:02:06 am
Wow, stunning bow for sure. You're skill set w/ all the different designs is inspiring. Thanks for sharing.  :)
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Steve Milbocker on September 22, 2017, 11:30:37 am
Superb workmanship absolutely gorgeous!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: papagus on September 22, 2017, 11:39:57 am
That's a work of art and function!!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 22, 2017, 12:12:09 pm
  Beautiful bow, I wonder how far it would throw a 500 grain arrow. Looks like a good candidate for flight shooting.

Thanks! I will try that because I am curious as well. Need to make a slightly more efficient arrow than my standard target arrows with 5" helical fletching though. Update when i got a chance to do so!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Bob W. on September 22, 2017, 12:12:51 pm
Love BBI,  great combo and nice craftsmnanship!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 22, 2017, 12:18:17 pm
Thanks guys, this was loads of fun to make!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Hans H on September 22, 2017, 12:22:19 pm
really well done, congrats
Hans
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Badger on September 22, 2017, 12:28:57 pm
  Beautiful bow, I wonder how far it would throw a 500 grain arrow. Looks like a good candidate for flight shooting.

Thanks! I will try that because I am curious as well. Need to make a slightly more efficient arrow than my standard target arrows with 5" helical fletching though. Update when i got a chance to do so!

  If you want to check it for broadhead use a 4" fletch, if you want to check it as a flight shooting bow you need to make up actual flight arrows. A 280 grain arrow with 1" fletches about 1/4" high will give you a pretty good idea but not your maximum. Flight shooting with light arrows can be hit or miss. I get better distances with my slower bows most of the time because of better flight. Broadhead shooting is more straight forward and gives you a pretty good idea what the bow is capable of. I bet that bow would do pretty well in broadhead.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 22, 2017, 03:51:12 pm
  Beautiful bow, I wonder how far it would throw a 500 grain arrow. Looks like a good candidate for flight shooting.

Thanks! I will try that because I am curious as well. Need to make a slightly more efficient arrow than my standard target arrows with 5" helical fletching though. Update when i got a chance to do so!

  If you want to check it for broadhead use a 4" fletch, if you want to check it as a flight shooting bow you need to make up actual flight arrows. A 280 grain arrow with 1" fletches about 1/4" high will give you a pretty good idea but not your maximum. Flight shooting with light arrows can be hit or miss. I get better distances with my slower bows most of the time because of better flight. Broadhead shooting is more straight forward and gives you a pretty good idea what the bow is capable of. I bet that bow would do pretty well in broadhead.

Thanks Steve! I will try both! I have lots of interest in flight shooting but here in the Netherlands no one really cares except for the warbow guys. Will start on some broadheads and light flight arrows just to see what I can do :laugh:
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Aaron H on September 22, 2017, 07:08:07 pm
Excellent work!  Not very often we get to see ipe with hooks like that.  More great finish work too.  :OK
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: selfbow joe on September 22, 2017, 08:29:45 pm
Nice work.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: bradsmith2010 on September 22, 2017, 08:50:25 pm
very nice,, please keep us updated on the shooting,, congrats on a great bow,,
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: bjrogg on September 23, 2017, 06:19:46 am
Leonwood, that's another absolutely beautiful bow. I'm glad to see your still pushing it and solving new problems. Beautiful work sir, as always top shelf.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: simson on September 23, 2017, 09:30:25 am
Super clean work, Leon! Finish is excellent so as the profiles. A looker for sure.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: xin on September 23, 2017, 10:59:52 am
Exceptionally beautiful bow and and excellence in craftsmanship.   Splendid work,.  Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 23, 2017, 02:10:13 pm
Thanks guys! Glad you like it! Shot it some more and need my 70/75 spined arrows to get clean flight. Arrows buried crazy deep in the target so I am really happy with this one ;D
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: sleek on September 23, 2017, 04:31:31 pm
Is there any chance you could make a force draw chart of this bow?
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 24, 2017, 02:21:42 am
Is there any chance you could make a force draw chart of this bow?

Sure, will do that tonight! Can you explain me what use a force draw curve has for self bows except for checking if it stacks at the end?
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: medicinewheel on September 24, 2017, 05:00:16 am
Very nice bow!
Great pictures, too!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: sleek on September 24, 2017, 06:34:04 am
It will tell you how much energy it stores and give you a clue to performance.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Badger on September 24, 2017, 07:08:39 am
Sleek, force draw curve won't really tell you much about performance. Chrono is about the only way to do that. Force draws are useful when you are trying to dial in the losses on a bow but don't really tell you much on their own.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Morgan on September 24, 2017, 11:13:42 am
What a beautifully made bow. I am envious of your skill sir.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Dvshunter on September 24, 2017, 01:12:40 pm
Simply stunning. Well done

Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 24, 2017, 01:16:08 pm
Sleek, force draw curve won't really tell you much about performance. Chrono is about the only way to do that. Force draws are useful when you are trying to dial in the losses on a bow but don't really tell you much on their own.

Just a short update:
Shot it through the chrono with my target arrow: 194 grain poc, 27 inch long, five inch helical fletch, 100 grain point.
Got an average speed of 177 fps drawing as far as the arrow would go. (My usual drawlength is not that long, probably about 26)

Will plot a fd curve tomorrow at work when I have access to a real computer
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 25, 2017, 06:44:12 am
Is there any chance you could make a force draw chart of this bow?

So I found this excel thing by Jim Thorne and figured that would could do the job. So this is what I came up with, is this any good?

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4403/36597217394_560804483f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XKYiGN)
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Badger on September 25, 2017, 08:00:52 am
   Leon, I am pretty sure your bow would test out faster than what you tested it at. It may have something to do with your style of release. For an accurate test you need to get off that string cleanly right at 28", maybe using a mechanical release. I would almost bet that the 394 grain arrow you are using would be much closer to 200 fps with a good test. I can see that bow easily shooting a 550 grain arrow at 180 fps or more.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Parnell on September 25, 2017, 08:15:52 am
Very pretty.  Seems to me like I haven't seen too many boo/ipe bows in the last years...that one is a beauty.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 25, 2017, 08:25:32 am
   Leon, I am pretty sure your bow would test out faster than what you tested it at. It may have something to do with your style of release. For an accurate test you need to get off that string cleanly right at 28", maybe using a mechanical release. I would almost bet that the 394 grain arrow you are using would be much closer to 200 fps with a good test. I can see that bow easily shooting a 550 grain arrow at 180 fps or more.

Yeah I am not exactly known for a smooth release 8) Next time one of the guys with a longer draw and a good release is around I will test it again.

Had the same thing with my black locust hld from a while back. I could not get past 180 fps while a friend of mine got a consistent 192 fps with the same arrow
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: sleek on September 25, 2017, 01:11:01 pm
Thats exactly what I wanted to see. Thank you so much leonwood.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 25, 2017, 02:27:36 pm
Thats exactly what I wanted to see. Thank you so much leonwood.

Your welcome :laugh:
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 25, 2017, 02:51:06 pm
So I did another chrono test with a 30 inch 530 grain arrow. (Did not shoot it myself :o)
Shot 15 arrows at 28" draw with an average speed of 190 with 187 as the lowest and 196 the highest.

Shot my own 27inch arrow once (the one I got 177 with), is 494 grain and got 185fps
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: joachimM on September 25, 2017, 03:14:15 pm
Kerel, dat is een for-mi-da-bel mooie boog, en hij loopt ook nog eens lekker, blijkbaar!

(Sorry folks, doesn't happen all to often that I can communicate in Dutch here).
Just telling the bow is a looker and a shooter for sure!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: DC on September 25, 2017, 03:30:26 pm
So I did another chrono test with a 30 inch 530 grain arrow. (Did not shoot it myself :o)
Shot 15 arrows at 28" draw with an average speed of 190 with 187 as the lowest and 196 the highest.

Shot my own 27inch arrow once (the one I got 177 with), is 494 grain and got 185fps

That's more like it. Good numbers. I think you have to work on your release ;) ;). 196, eh, he couldn't pull it just a little harder ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 25, 2017, 03:40:58 pm
Kerel, dat is een for-mi-da-bel mooie boog, en hij loopt ook nog eens lekker, blijkbaar!

(Sorry folks, doesn't happen all to often that I can communicate in Dutch here).
Just telling the bow is a looker and a shooter for sure!

Haha dankjewel! Als je een keer in de buurt van Berkel en Rodenrijs bent kun je er zelf mee schieten!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 25, 2017, 03:43:13 pm
So I did another chrono test with a 30 inch 530 grain arrow. (Did not shoot it myself :o)
Shot 15 arrows at 28" draw with an average speed of 190 with 187 as the lowest and 196 the highest.

Shot my own 27inch arrow once (the one I got 177 with), is 494 grain and got 185fps

That's more like it. Good numbers. I think you have to work on your release ;) ;). 196, eh, he couldn't pull it just a little harder ;D ;D

Yep I definately have to work on my release! I am trying to make some flight arrows nog so I can practice that for real. That chrono thing isn't for me O:)
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Knoll on September 25, 2017, 04:41:35 pm
Good performance and looks. Congrats!

Question . . . Pics appear to indicate pyramid profile, but sometimes pics can be deceiving. Is it a pyramid?
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 26, 2017, 06:34:03 am
Good performance and looks. Congrats!

Question . . . Pics appear to indicate pyramid profile, but sometimes pics can be deceiving. Is it a pyramid?

Thanks! When I look at it now it does look a bit like a pyramid in the pictures yes. However it is mostly wide from the handle to mid limb and then tapers to the tips.  It got a little more pyramid shaped in the final tillering which was done from the sides.
The tips are actually quite wide for my standards but this was an experiment to see if I could make something like this from ipe. My next one wil be a little shorter with a little more bend in the statics. Will tiller that one with Badgers' no set tillering method just to see what this combo can do.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Carson (CMB) on September 26, 2017, 11:39:03 am
Very Nice! I really enjoy seeing the bows you are turning out lately. Beautiful work.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 26, 2017, 12:05:44 pm
Very Nice! I really enjoy seeing the bows you are turning out lately. Beautiful work.

Thankyou!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Stoner on September 26, 2017, 08:02:37 pm
That's just a dandy of a bow! So clean. John
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Badger on September 27, 2017, 12:16:59 am
  Outstanding performance!! I knew it had to be much faster than your first report, I bet you are pretty happy with the results, you deserve a lot of credit for a great job!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Badger on September 27, 2017, 12:18:59 am
  Outstanding performance!! I knew it had to be much faster than your first report, I bet you are pretty happy with the results, you deserve a lot of credit for a great job!  This is a good example of starting off with enough wood to get the job done right. If you know you have enough wood for a design there is no need for the no set tiller method.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on September 27, 2017, 02:18:41 am
  Outstanding performance!! I knew it had to be much faster than your first report, I bet you are pretty happy with the results, you deserve a lot of credit for a great job!  This is a good example of starting off with enough wood to get the job done right. If you know you have enough wood for a design there is no need for the no set tiller method.

Thanks! I was grinning the whole time! Did get to see 60 on my chrono (european version) a few times. That was a first! Did get some good tips for working on my release as well so I have some work to do!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Pappy on September 27, 2017, 02:40:06 am
Beautiful bow, very nice work. :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Philipp A on September 27, 2017, 11:03:30 am
Wow, what a gorgeous bow and blazingly fast! Great work, I will have to make a laminate bow one day myself (once I master making great self bows).

Cheers,

Phil
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: silent sniper on September 27, 2017, 11:33:54 am
That is an outrageously beautiful bow, 100% top notch in every respect! Incredible work, keep it up!! SS
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: dragonman on October 10, 2017, 09:00:52 am
nice work...bet its fast...as fast a wooden bows get
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: ---GUTSHOT---> on October 10, 2017, 10:40:29 am
Ew!  Very nice!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Stickhead on January 14, 2018, 12:27:20 pm
Bow of the Year!!

Well done, Leon!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: sieddy on January 14, 2018, 01:47:56 pm
Holy cow that is great!  :D
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: vinemaplebows on January 14, 2018, 07:14:50 pm
Somehow I missed this one I think, fantastic work!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Stoner on January 14, 2018, 08:04:11 pm
All I can say is WOW! Great Craftsmanship. John
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on January 15, 2018, 07:11:19 am
Wow just saw that I won bow of the year! That blows me away, thanks to anyone who voted for my bow!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Jan de Bogenman on January 15, 2018, 07:58:09 am
GEFELICITEERD Leon.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: dane lund on January 15, 2018, 08:45:04 am
I don't make comment too often, BUT, that is the most beautiful bow I've seen!!! -C-
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: redhillwoods on January 15, 2018, 09:51:08 am
Congratulations on the win Leonwood. What you've done here is quite remarkable.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Selfbowman on January 16, 2018, 12:47:19 am
That's a beauty for sure and fast . Great tiller to go that fast! Arvin
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Stick Bender on January 16, 2018, 08:23:29 am
Man I really like those curves 👍🏻
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Pappy on January 16, 2018, 04:50:08 pm
Congrats on the Bow of the year win, beautiful work and well deserved win. :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: Jesse on January 17, 2018, 02:34:34 pm
Awesome bow. I actually remember justin snyders old post you referenced about kerf bending.
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: barebo on January 18, 2018, 07:39:02 pm
One word comes to mind that I usually don't use to describe a bow, but this one is simply: Elegant! I don't see how anything could be better - style, function and finish - Perfect!
Title: Re: Ipe/boo static, 55@28
Post by: leonwood on January 19, 2018, 06:28:17 am
Thanks for all the compliments guys! I will use this bow for the coming 3D competitions in the spring and summer.