Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Ruddy Darter on September 29, 2017, 05:44:30 am

Title: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: Ruddy Darter on September 29, 2017, 05:44:30 am
I'm looking for advice on a good type axe (reasonably price) for roughing out staves ( aiming to reduce down an ash stave over the weekend and want to save my draw knife edge for nearer dimensions).
I got this axe a while ago and haven't got around to properly using it as yet, is this kind adequate or am I better off looking for another type to make a better job of it?
Thanks for any advice,

 R.D.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: WillS on September 29, 2017, 06:03:17 am
I just use a cheap B&Q hatchet that I put an edge on with a grinder.  You don't need anything fancy.  What's nice is that once you get used to whatever you have, you can take a bow from complete log to ready for the tiller without messing about with too many tools.  I'm sure a lot of people who use power tools feel the same way about bandsaws etc.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: Ruddy Darter on September 29, 2017, 06:12:40 am
Thanks WillS, that's good to read... I picked this one up from the homebase garden section, I think it will keep a fair edge.
Using a hatchet for the majority of work seems the better way for me to go about it, I haven't got a solid bench or shave horse to clamp up to, just a rickety workmate that can be a bit of a pain, OK for finishing off on though. Also I think I will enjoy it more.

 R.D.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: stuckinthemud on September 29, 2017, 06:24:26 am
Sorry RD but I can't tell off your picture what shape the blade is, or how heavy the axe is but if its sharp and it suits you then go for it.

There are a few things a good axe needs, the steel needs to be easy to sharpen but still hold a good edge, and the blade needs to be profiled to suit you and at a weight you are comfortable using.  I've got two hatchets, a cheapy off the local market I use for splitting and wedging out staves, and a 'vintage' hatchet that cost me £8 including postage off that auction site which I spent half an hour re-shaping into a carving profile.  I like using light/medium weight axes but a lot of carvers go for a big, heavy head on a cut-down handle.

  If it suits you and does the job you need then its all good but with second-hand axes being cheap then you can build up a set of different blade-shapes and weights quite economically. 

One thing, I guess you haven't used a hatchet for roughing out before? Use short cutting strokes and be careful to lean the stave over a little so the blade catches in the wood and doesn't bounce off it instead.  Ideally put the stave on a wooden pad or stump so that when you can carve off the end of the stave the axe will land in nice soft wood and not a hard concrete floor. 
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: Ruddy Darter on September 29, 2017, 06:35:49 am
Thanks stuckinthemud, I've roughed out other stuff with an axe so got a fair feel for it, and even managed to mess up a reasonably good hawthorn stave with an axe a few years back  (=)  :D..
The axe seems capable of a reasonable job, but I will keep my eyes open for a nice wooden craftsman hatchet...im not overly keen on plastic handles.

 R.D.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: stuckinthemud on September 29, 2017, 07:30:37 am
I'm with you on the wooden handles.  This is my auction site axe.  I put a little extra curve on the blade, and got rid of the hard edge to the bevel; the cutting edge is smoothly transitioned out of the blade.  I find these modifications increase the bite of the blade and reduce the frequency of it bouncing out of the cut.  I was going to reduce the thickness of the blade - this is widely recommended - but the axe was so beautifully made it didn't need any reduction at all.  Think it cost me £5 plus £3 postage
(https://stuckinthemudsite.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/img_20170929_125708.jpg)

Note.
Steel production in the UK went through a sea-change in the 1940s when British Steel came into being.  Up til then, specialist tool steels with the best carbon levels for that type of tool were made available to manufacturers  - hand-tool (axe) makers bought steel specifically made for that type of tool.  After the 1940s tool makers got generic steel.  This did not change until the 1990s or later when specialist steels once again started being used by hand-tool makers.  Unfortunately, at the budget end of the market, the use of generic steels is still common, so, you get what you pay for, and since I'm too tight to shell out £100 for a quality hatchet, I ONLY and ALWAYS buy pre-War hand-tools  ;) ;)
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: Ruddy Darter on September 29, 2017, 08:05:35 am
Thanks stuckinthemud, that's good info. I'll keep an eye out for any pre-war heads on ebay.

 R.D.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: FilipT on September 29, 2017, 08:37:46 am
Just be careful handle is not too long. I learned the hard way what it does to your hands after long use. I have since found one that has big head but small, just over foot long handle and its a huge difference in handling.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: Ruddy Darter on September 29, 2017, 11:14:26 am
Thanks Stalker, I managed to have a little go just now and I got a major forearm pump.  :D
That went rather well, I found it quick and controlled. I'd already taken off the corners from the wedge shaped stave some time ago,  I just reduced the belly down to 30mm the whole length and after giving the axe a little sharpen I will reduce the width down to 40mm the whole length getting it squared up for marking on the final dimensions.
I took a water percentage measure off the fresh exposed belly on the outer limb and got this reading. It's also pretty damp outside too, still way to wet? (not really a concern as it's early spring time I'm planning on working it).

 R.D.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: FilipT on September 29, 2017, 11:16:38 am
not really a concern as it's early spring time I'm planning on working it).

 R.D.

Where are you from?
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: Ruddy Darter on September 29, 2017, 11:20:23 am
South east England.

 R.D.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: Hawkdancer on September 29, 2017, 11:59:25 am
Southeast England, as in Sussex?
Hawkdancer
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: Del the cat on September 29, 2017, 12:16:59 pm
IMO important thing is weight... and decent steel.
I bought a BAHCO HGPS-0.6 - 360
My old axe was too heavy and it was doing in my elbow.
Del
PS. It's worth making a leather cover for the head.... that's the axe head not your head ::)  :o
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: Ruddy Darter on September 29, 2017, 12:42:53 pm
@Hawkdancer... The Royal County of Berkshire don't you know...  :D

@Del... That looks a nice axe Del, good price too,
The Fiskar axe I have comes with a plastic carry clip protector. It's a pretty good axe I reckon, but I would like a wooden handled.

 R.D.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: FilipT on September 29, 2017, 12:52:59 pm
I like to work on bows just now, until the November. Its cold enough outside so I don't sweat extensively, but warm enough I can work and now is good time for cutting trees.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: sieddy on September 29, 2017, 05:20:55 pm
I've got the small fisksrs x5 and I think its great for the purpose. It's got and holds a good edge and its so light it affords really goog control. I'm sure ill upgrade at some point but it does the biz for me! 😊
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: Hawkdancer on November 03, 2017, 11:30:04 pm
RD,
My bad! Or OPPs!  My England geography is a bit lacking - except for brewery's and pubs!! >:D. Where is Berkshire from the White Horse Vale?  I owe you a pint!
I will be looking for the "old steel". Here in the states, it is a bit of a challenge! and a bit pricey!  As in my pre '64 Winchester being 8 -10 times more than the original cost.  Any way, use what works for you and stats sharp!
Hawkdancer
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: Morgan on November 03, 2017, 11:43:50 pm
I use a half hatchet. I believe it is a Vaughn brand. I like the profile of it a lot better than most hatchets as it is more blade like than wedge. I brought the bevel back with a file so it takes a deeper bite, took maybe half an hour to do. I sharpen it with a mill bastard file and it holds its edge for a very long time. I think I gave $20 for it and would get another in a heartbeat if something happened to the one I have.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: Badger on December 18, 2017, 06:23:32 pm
    I really enjoy working with an axe but I find my forearms pump up like popeye in just a few minutes and will start cramping. A few years ago I made a commitment to stick with it for at least a month and see if the forearms could adjust to it. They got a little better but I still couldn't work as long as I wanted to work. I think I might be using all wrist instead of arm, not sure.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: kbear on April 09, 2018, 03:42:40 am
I use the Fiskars X7 to rough profile, and work the belly down to about 1", then a single bevel Silky Nata hatchet for almost finish profile. Shinto from there. I find the X7 is light in the hand, very sharp, and allows some good control. The Nata is great for hueing the line........
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: Shawn Rackley on June 06, 2018, 11:40:37 pm
At one time I had the fiskars hatchet like that, not sure of the model or length, and I never used it to work on a bow (haven't built one yet). But I thought it was a very sturdy tool, and easy to get scary sharp. I actually almost cut my thumb off with it. Lol, alas, someone stole it.  I can't attest to it's use in this particular scenario. But I can say it's tough, I beat mine to death before it got stolen.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: OTDEAN on June 22, 2018, 03:53:12 pm
Gransfor Bruks everytime.  Last a life time and hardly ever needs to be sharpened if looked after.  Worth the investment.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: TorstenT on July 18, 2018, 11:49:51 pm
In my (limited) experience, axes or hatchets with symmetrical cross sections tend to either bounce of or go in too deep. I’d recommend an asymmetrically shaped axe head. We call those ‘carpenter’s axe’ in Germany. They look like this:
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: stuckinthemud on July 20, 2018, 06:28:56 am
They're called 'side-axe' in the UK; I am mixed-handed, so I said to a tool maker (I'm saving hard, he hand forges beautiful axes) that maybe I'd need a left- and a right-handed axe, but he suggested an easily removed wedge in the handle to allow the head to be quickly removed, flpped over and re-attached, so one head can be both left and right-handed.
Title: Re: a good axe for roughing out staves?
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on August 19, 2018, 09:04:06 pm
You can use a cheap p.o.s. hatchet, but get the correct grind. Depending on if left or right handed. When your hatchet strikes wood, the inside edge, the one that's toward the wood, should have a longer sharper bevel, while the edge facing away from the wood should have a shorter steeper bevel.