Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: Morgan on October 08, 2017, 06:30:21 pm

Title: Help please. Arm Slap D bow (FD pic added)
Post by: Morgan on October 08, 2017, 06:30:21 pm
Just finished an eastern woodlands style D bow today. Got about 90 arrows through it and it is beating the bejeezus out of my arm. Cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong. It is a 10# heavier than what I usually shoot. Shoots well and I can hit where I want to with it but something's gotta give or it will become a permanent wall decoration. Don't know if measurements matter but it is 1 3/8" for most of its length, last 8" tapering to 3/4" or so nocks. 55#@ 28". I've tried taking brace anywhere from 5" to 7.5". May have to build up the handle to give me something to hold on to? If I short draw, or snap shoot, I get no slap. Accuracy is greatly diminished when I do though. I'd like some advice before I shoot it anymore, but that will be a bit anyway as my forearm is one giant blood blister.

Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: burchett.donald on October 08, 2017, 06:47:11 pm
 Morgan be careful you don't want surgery on a busted vein ! Try flipping the bow and shoot from the other side, could be a string alignment problem...
                                                                                     Don
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: Morgan on October 08, 2017, 06:50:37 pm
Thanks Burchett, I'll give that a try. Didn't know arm slap could put you in surgery! :(
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: burchett.donald on October 08, 2017, 06:54:51 pm
 If you bust that vein you will need vascular surgery, wear an armguard or sleeve until you work it out buddy...
              don
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: bjrogg on October 08, 2017, 08:31:15 pm
Morgan is it just your wrist or whole arm? I don't hold my arm totally straight. I have a slight bend in my elbow. I sure hope you figure it out, I hate getting those wrist slaps.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: Morgan on October 08, 2017, 10:18:21 pm
Morgan is it just your wrist or whole arm? I don't hold my arm totally straight. I have a slight bend in my elbow. I sure hope you figure it out, I hate getting those wrist slaps.
Bjrogg
BJ, was just the meaty part of my forearm till I started playing with brace height. When I had it braces low, mid forearm to wrist fell victim. I don't hold my arm straight either. Haven't had a problem with slap in a very long time. I think it is the way I'm holding it, although I'm unsure what I'm doing different, but it feels different in the hand, and I think I'm adjusting my grip odd or something. I may have my wife video me to see. Bad part of it is that I can shoot Better than my average with it and I hate the thing  ::) I'll play with it some more sometime when it don't hurt lol.
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: loon on October 08, 2017, 10:23:09 pm
Grip a bit more askew (rotate arm+hand clockwise for a right handed shooter), increase brace height slightly, use an FF string?
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: Eric Krewson on October 10, 2017, 08:41:03 am
I have one of those arms that the string always finds on a release. I used to make my bows with the string a little to the rest side but found the alignment would literally wear my cordova arm guards out. I am making them now with a centered string and get much less string slap.
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 10, 2017, 01:03:31 pm
a thick arm guard will fix the probem,,it maybe be the way you hold the bow with the heavier draw ,,, but arm guard is the answer,,
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: DC on October 10, 2017, 02:32:56 pm
Does anyone have a slick way of telling if the string is hitting your arm guard. I thought i would cover it with chalk but I've oiled the guard and chalk won't stick.
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 10, 2017, 05:43:12 pm
the string is hitting my arm or arm guard on all my bows,,
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: Eric Krewson on October 10, 2017, 05:55:23 pm
If the string is hitting your arm without a guard it is making contact with the guard but harder.

When I really whop my armguard my shot goes a foot to the left.
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 10, 2017, 06:32:38 pm
Eric in my experience shooting bows for 50 years,, on a low braced bow there is some slap on the arm guard, not throwing the shot off at all,,
if the bow is throwing the shot off a foot,, I dont have any experience like that,,and would not know what to recommend,,
when I am wearing hunting jacket,, the arm guard is keeping the string from catching on the heavy jacket,,
even the best shots in the world wear an arm guard,,Byron Ferguson for example,,
I do rotate my hand to a 45 degree angle on the bow handle, and that moves my arm away from the string a bit,,
I dont think the string  is hitting the arm guard harder,, but that is just my experience, and  yours and others may vary,,,
but there is a good reason an arm guard has and is an important part of gear for shooting a bow,, its serves a purpose and on a well set up bow, does not impead accuracy or performance,, )P(
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: DC on October 10, 2017, 07:18:36 pm
If the string hits your guard after the arrow leaves it I can't see it doing any harm. If the string hits the guard before the arrow leaves I can't see it doing any good. The trick is knowing the difference and I don't.
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: Morgan on October 10, 2017, 09:00:17 pm
Thanks for the tips guys. When I had the bow braces low, my wrist got the slap. No harm to accuracy, braces high it hit my forearm, and I would shoot off. Badly. In drawing the bow a lot, and comparing it to others  the past few days, I've decided that the bow is rotating slightly in my hand just before full draw. 1 1/2" before full draw it doesn't. It is 100% a me thing and the way the bow fits my hand or rather doesn't fit. Like holding a 1x2. Literally. I may build it up with some leather or cork or something flexible. Really wanted to leave it true to style though. :-(
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: bjrogg on October 11, 2017, 06:19:37 am
Morgan just a thought here might not be the problem. I think you said this is a heavier bow than you've shot in the past. Are you using heavier spines arrows? Maybe they are to weak in spine and bending to much causing the string to act like a bad release. Just a thought. I actually don't use or own a arm guard. I probably should have one especially for hunting with a coat on to keep sleeve out of string. Gotta go to city today for wife's root canal. Maybe I can get one if we get there early.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: burchett.donald on October 11, 2017, 07:45:38 am
Morgan,
             That rotation in your hand sounds like limb alignment problem at full draw causing a twisting...Have you flipped the bow yet...just try the flip over and shoot a few...these primitive bows can do some weird things once fully drawn...Short bendy bows are more critical to your shooting form and design, they can be touchy and need practice...Flip just for kicks and see...Kinda like going from a rifle to a pistol...
                              Don
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 11, 2017, 12:19:36 pm
try to round the edges a bit,,
hold it with a loose grip,,rotate your hand so the arm comes out a bit,
shoot it for a week exclusively,, it will come around for you,,
it is a great design, and will shoot well,, ,, it just may take a bit of time to get used to it,

there is no need to build it out,,,, that design has worked for thousands of years,, it will work for you,,
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: Morgan on October 11, 2017, 04:16:33 pm
Bj, the spine could be a factor. About 10# weak for this bow.
 Don, I haven't flipped it yet, letting my arm scan over a bit more. This stave was a bit wonkey for my skill level and the bottom limb might be a bit stiffer than it should be. It don't look terrible at full draw, but is really noticeable at brace. Part of that is from a slight natural kink in my top limb causing a little natural deflect. The bottom limb has a wave to it when looked at from the side view. I almost had a hinge there when tillering so I left it a little stiff. I'm also probably bending more in the middle than I should, but that's hard for me to tell cause there is a kink there too that makes it look bent before tillering ever started. I think if I shoot it flipped what is now bottom limb will be too stiff on top. Don't know though.
Brad, I'm not going to give up on this bow, it's the hardest shooting bow I've made to date, just gonna get somearm protection before I go any further with it. I did try drawing it with an open hand with the grip just resting in the crotch of my thumb and hand. I didn't see the rotation that I was earlier.
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: loon on October 11, 2017, 04:25:29 pm
Thanks for the tips guys. When I had the bow braces low, my wrist got the slap. No harm to accuracy, braces high it hit my forearm, and I would shoot off. Badly.
interesting. I'm also worried a high brace height would strain the bow too much.
I used to have a twisted b50 string on a hickory flatbow that slapped the heck out of my wrist. Not a problem with FF.. guess the b50 just stretches too much or was too twisted
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: Morgan on October 11, 2017, 04:35:04 pm
Thanks for the tips guys. When I had the bow braces low, my wrist got the slap. No harm to accuracy, braces high it hit my forearm, and I would shoot off. Badly.
interesting. I'm also worried a high brace height would strain the bow too much.
I used to have a twisted b50 string on a hickory flatbow that slapped the heck out of my wrist. Not a problem with FF.. guess the b50 just stretches too much or was too twisted
There is a lot of twist to this string. It is a single loop string that I made a long time ago and has more twist than it needs. I thought fast flight would harm bow tips? I don't have any interest in doing overlays on this bow. How high would be too high of a brace?
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 11, 2017, 04:50:07 pm
Morgan,, just untwist the string,, and re tie at the bottom,,
how long is the bow and how far are  you drawing it, you may have said that earlier,,
7 inches is a far as I would go,,
fast flight is ok,, but not necessary,, I shoot it on some of my bows,,but when i started it was all b 50,, it worked fine,,
i think most of the issue is your form,, and if you practice with that bow a bit more you will sort things out,,
can you post a pic of how you are holding the bow at full draw,,
we are all just guessing ,but that most simple of designs ,, should not be difficult to tune,,
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow
Post by: Morgan on October 11, 2017, 05:01:52 pm
Brad, hadn't measured it till just now. It is 62" ntn. Didn't take any measurements at all when I made it, just started cutting. I draw 27" at my anchor. If I snap shoot it's about an inch shorter.
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow (FD pic added)
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 11, 2017, 05:43:26 pm
that looks pretty good,looks like our left elbow is a little stiff or maybe a bit too straight,,
did you untwist the string,,
where are you shooting the arrow,, in the middle or above center,,
also I agree the spine being light is a factor,,
can you cut the arrows shorter to see how the bow likes them a bit stiffer,,

Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow (FD pic added)
Post by: Morgan on October 11, 2017, 05:52:07 pm
Brad, I haven't untwisted the string yet. The arrows I have are too short to cut down. Making a shaft making jig now to whip out a few more arrows. My arrow is passing probably 1 1/4" above center of bow.
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow (FD pic added)
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 11, 2017, 06:04:45 pm
ok sounds like a good plan,, if that bruise on your arm is from the string, then you were turning your arm into the string too much,,
and that may be from trying to draw the bow too far,, or from the extra weight,,,
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow (FD pic added)
Post by: Marc St Louis on October 11, 2017, 06:39:15 pm
You should twist your wrist over so that the base of your thumb is supporting the bow and the heel of your hand is barely touching the outside of the bow.  That should do it
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow (FD pic added)
Post by: Morgan on October 11, 2017, 07:45:23 pm
ok sounds like a good plan,, if that bruise on your arm is from the string, then you were turning your arm into the string too much,,
and that may be from trying to draw the bow too far,, or from the extra weight,,,
Brad, that bruise is from the string. I know what you're saying about turning into the string, it felt like the bow was turning in my hand toward my arm, but it was probably me. I'll get it figured out.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow (FD pic added)
Post by: Morgan on October 11, 2017, 10:13:42 pm
You should twist your wrist over so that the base of your thumb is supporting the bow and the heel of your hand is barely touching the outside of the bow.  That should do it
I just saw this Marc, I'll try that. Gonna run to the archery shop in town tomorrow and see if they have an arm guard.
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow (FD pic added)
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 12, 2017, 11:58:21 am
with arm guard and what Marc said you gonna be good to go,,,
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow (FD pic added)
Post by: Morgan on October 12, 2017, 12:05:54 pm
Bought a cheap arm guard this morning and followed y'all advice. Shot for about an hour and a half. Zero arm hits that I know of. Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow (FD pic added)
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 12, 2017, 01:42:23 pm
hey great news ,, glad you got it shooting,, without the pain,,, )P(
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow (FD pic added)
Post by: Morgan on October 12, 2017, 03:40:23 pm
Thanks Brad. I'm glad it's sorted. Changing my hold is making me re-learn to shoot and I think I'm going to have to aim with this one. Soon as I get the accuracy figured out with this hold style, I think this bow will make meat.
Title: Re: Help please. Arm Slap D bow (FD pic added)
Post by: bjrogg on October 12, 2017, 08:54:50 pm
Glad to hear that you found a solution Morgan. That's how I hold my bow to.
Bjrogg