Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: bradsmith2010 on November 10, 2017, 01:20:25 pm
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on the 2017 hunting pics is a post,, an archer in Finland shot two deer with his primitive bow and had to take an exam to get the permit,, had to shoot three arrows into a 23 cm circle from 18 meters,,
just for fun I made a circle yesterday shot at it,, I think it would be some pressure to only get 3 shots to qualify,,,I am going to practice till I can do it,,, I started at 10 and 11 yards,, this is my best group at 11 yards,,I had warmed up and shot some good and bad shots,, but hoping this will forshadow what I can do at 18 meters,,,, please post some pics if you want to try it,, and how far you shoot is not an issue,, its just for fun,, and it does give you a reality check on how far you might want to shoot at deer,, my goal is to be able to do this at my chosen distance on my first 3 cold shots,,,
the bow is hunting bow, 66 inch osage 55 at 26 inches ,,, arrows mahongony about 540 grains or good hunting weight,,
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Oh well, i see he post's in this forum! :D
Anyway, if you can repeat that test even in your homeground, very well done!
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Nice group! I remember when we had a Bow Hynter Instuctor seminar in '95, the instructors told us to be proficient, we should be able to hit a grapefruit every time at what ever range we were planning to shoot while hunting. I think they all had the latest "wheelies", though. It does sound like a good test osskill, and might make some folks practice before they hunt, or reconsider all together. Wonder if I have any 23 cm targets!
Hawkdancer
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I just measured it out. It is about 9.5". I also tried it this evening. I had a blast but had a hard time getting all 3 within the 23cm.
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for me its shoot closer or practice more, or maybe both,,I love shooting so no problem )P(
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I think a lot of both. 18 meters is 20 yards(actually 59.4 ft). Bad news, there is a city ordnance against shooting bows and guns in the city limits - good news, we are only 2 miles or so from the archery/atlatl range (SH) (AT) :NN. Got to check some measurement from the garage door to the shed. What can't be seen or heard, can' be reported, sure can be fun, though >:D!
Hawkdancer
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Well, I won't be hunting in Finland, that's for sure. I think it's a good test though.
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just for fun i tried this using a bamboo backed hickory longbow i made. 64# @ 30". i could get all 3 into the circle back to 26 yards. after that i was a little more sporadic....id get 2 then 3 or 1 then 2. After that, it was not pretty. This is well outside my hunting range for a stickbow, of 20 yards. Now, with the Bob Lee longbow i could get all 3 in out to nearly 40 yards. There is a lot to be said for a laminated bow!
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there are guys that shoot a well made wood bow as well as the laminated bows,, so there is alot to be said for that,,
look at the scores of the field archers before fiberglass,,,, you may shoot the bob lee better ,,,,,, all wood bows are not made equal,, and if there is something to be said bout fiberglass bows that would be on another forum,, :)
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not really. i was making an observation about my experience. i prefer my handmade bows but that doesnt tske away from the fact that a laminated bow will have more range.
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great,, this thread is about primitive bows,,, thanks,,
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First 3 arrows, and 4th is a flyer high & right, 10 yards! Self bow by Badger, arrows by Hawkdancer!
Hawkdancer
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can you try again, I cant see the pic,, want to see those arrows
I can post the pics if you send them to me,, brad@bradsmithgallery.com (SH)
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Finnish Archer test -2nd try
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that looks great,, nice arrows and great backstop,,,,
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Wrong arrows! The backstop/range is at the Lon Hagler State Wildlife Area operated by the Big Thompson Bowhunters. Those are my old arrows. Will try to get correct pic as soon as I devour plate of steak and eggs! -C- :)!
Hawkdancer
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ok Today I worked on shooting further, ,, about 19 to 20,,, I had three arrows two the same and a new heavy maple ,,, just wanted to see how it flew,, it hit the paper as much as the two matched ones,, 60# spine 520 grains,, the heavy 700 grain 70# spine,, you can see a wood bow is pretty forgiving in what it will shoot accurately,,, this is my best group and would qualify me to hunt,,
ok but need more practice to hit that my first 3 shots under pressure with people watching ,, whew,,
I have a lighter bow and thought that might give me an advantage ,, but it didnt so I shot the heavier osage ,,,hope you guys are practicing,,,or shooting and having fun (SH) give me a few more days and I will try it on video )P(
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https://i.imgur.com/Rg3Il2Y_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
Maybe this works, crest is about 7 inches.
Hawkdancer
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those are nice arrows,,,, I like the two fletch,, looks like it shoots pretty good for you,,what are the shafts made of,,,?
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Got those in the trade last year - pretty sure they are red osier dogwood. Plan to try some more two fletch with some shafts I cut. Only have 4 feathers like that, but have some barred. Got to move arrow making up the do list. The older arrows are POC.
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Nice shooting! And great to see your interest about Finnish bow shooting test.
Here are the rules for Finnish bow shooting test;
3 arrows in 180 seconds from 18 meters into a 23cm circle. Target is just a light circle with no bullseye or anything else.
In same event you can try max 5 times. Bow must be at least 40,5 pounds. (180Newton)
All bowtypes are legal except crossbows, which are not legal in hunting in Finland.
Every try costs 20 (24,09 USD)
(https://i1.wp.com/riista.fi/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Jousikoetaulu.jpg?ssl=1)
Itīs actually quite hard to even see the circle from 18 meters. We are trying to get this official target to change more bow friendly. This light circle is same as is use with rifle shooting test.
Also primitive bowers and other have criticize the shooting distance because itīs way too much compared to real hunting distances.
There needs to be at least two official supervisors who approve the exam. Im also official shooting test supervisor(rifle and bow), but of course I can not accept my own test.
Many have said to me that they usually can shoot 3 arrows in 23cm circle while shootin at home. In shooting test there comes quite a lot of pressures; supervisors are watching all the time and usually there are other watching too. Also that every missed arrow costs you 20 euros, is not relaxing feeling at all.. =D
The firs video is a video I made almost exactly two years ago. In that time deer legalizing for bow was not in law yet and the shooting test was still under work and talks were that the distance will be 20 meters and the circle will be 20cm wide.
(First there are some talks about bow and hunting and also criticizing the exam to be made just for compound bowers etc, at the end of the video I shoot)
The second video about year ago where the dimension and target are the same as the exam today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPM_Gx_Zbdg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YZ_e7yf3aU
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Hello Rautasarvi,
Are non-residents of Finland allowed to take the test and get a licence to bowhunt in Finland?
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Hello Rautasarvi,
Are non-residents of Finland allowed to take the test and get a licence to bowhunt in Finland?
Strelets, sorry I didnt notice Your question earlier, so here You go;
Foreign people can hunt in Finland as any finnish people. There are few things you need;
You need to have hunting license in your own country. You first send a copy of your own hunting license and the official workwr from game-care-organization will order you a finnish license. After you have get this license, you are exactly in the same position as any finnish hunter. License costs the same as it costs to finnish hunters 33euros and itīs for one year.
Also you need to have a permission to hunt in certain area. In Finland the right to hunt is based on land owning. Landowner can rent this right and most lands are rent to hunting clubs. So best way to hunt is to ask hunting permission from hunting clubs. Small game is normally very cheap to hunt or even free.
If you want to hunt whitetaildeer, roedeer or wildboar, you need to have shooting test done. If you have made similar shooting test for these animals in some other country you donīt need to shoot this test in Finland. Even my opinion is that if you hunt with primitive bow, you shoot the test also with primitive bow, itīs obvious that itīll be better for foreign hunter to shoot this test with compoud bow even he hunts with primitive bow. Itīs really difficult test for primitive bow and it would be a huge disappointment if someone makes a lot of work to come here to hunt and then fail this test.. So itīs possible to shoot this test with any bow. At the moment Im the only person who has pass this test with primitive bow. And my opinion about this test is, that it has been made purely for compoud bows. I even know some people have think that this is the way to get rid of traditional bows from hunting bigger game. Iīll make them disappointed again and again.. >:D
So itīs not difficult at all for foreign people to hunt in Finland. Defenetly best way is to get in contact with some finnish hunter who will be the contact person. He can find out if there is possibilities to give a visitor permission for foreign hunter and also he can handle the lisence.
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Thank you Rautasarvi,
I agree that it is a difficult test. With a wooden longbow, wooden arrows and no sights I estimate my chance of getting all three arrows in the circle would be about 25%. However, if allowed up to five attempts then the probability of my passing on at least one attempt would be about 76%; it might cost me 100 Euros though. However, if I used a modern recurve with stabiliser and sight then I would probably pass the test at the first attempt.
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Forgot to mention:
Whitetaildeer neefs license to hunt but its posible to hunt whitetails as a visitor, as I explained on topic "hunting pics 2017".
Wildboar is "free game" and I bet you can go and hunt wildboar in Finland just with a very small costs or even for free. Wildboar population is growing and we try to do everything that it will not grow too much. Still there is no single one wildboar kill with bow. Hunting wildboar with bow became legal in autumn last year.
Roedeer is also "freegame". Places where the population is big, its easy and cheap to hunt as a visitor. Actually there are quite often organizared hunts all over Finland which are specially for bowhunters.
In my area there is quite little population of roedeers and we usually make a decision that wisitors are not allowed to hunt roedeers. We shot just few roedeers/year.
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Raut- great information. Hunting somewhere like Finland sounds fun. How would a non resident go about making the contact with a landowner there? One that might charge a fair price to hunt on their land, as opposed to a full on guide service where a guide helps get you get on an animal?
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There are companies in Finland who offers commercial hunts. Some have land of their own and some organize places for customer. Game to hunt is based on the animals in these areas. I think roedeer-hunts are at the moment the most popular as a visitor hunts for bowhunters. In some places also beaver. There are usually all kind of stuff including these kind of commercial hunts and the taxes are based on services.
Hunting clubs are, I think, the easiest and best way to get hunt in Finland. Asking possibilities to come hunt as a visitor, goes simply that you first contact some club and ask if there is a possibility to come hunting.
At the moment hunting clubs visitor hunts are the only way for a visitor to get hunt whitetaildeers. Thats simply because the need of the solid lands size. For whitetaildeer, there needs to be 500hectars solid area before itīs possible to get licenses. For moose this area needs to be 1000hectars. Thats because the size of the animal population is then better to see and its then possible to make also very effective hunting so that the population stays strong and healthy. Clubs usuallly have rent thousands of hectars of lands. Our club for example have about 7000hectars lands to hunt. Also we are a part of 7clubs system and for example lynx-hunting can be done in this whole area (about 40 000hectars). Also we got our whitetail and moose licenses for this whole area and then clubs shares these licenses for each club based on how much there are animals in certain area. Our club gets usually about 200licenses for whitetail deer each season. That usually makes about 350 deers.(fawn is 1/2 license and adult doe or buck is one license).
Clubs buys licenses from ministry and then some of the licenses(if there are enough licenses) can be sell to visitors also.
In state lands there are not so large populations of whitetaildeers that it could be possible for state to sell whitetail-licenses for these lands. Whitetaildeer population is growing all the time and I think in few years there will be enough whitetails in state lands also.
Clubs are taxing differently. In some clubs(like my club for example) itīs possible for members to have visitor by themselves to hunt fox, badger and raccoon dog. And thats totally free! There are a limit of three visitor at the time with one club member.
Little game like rabbits and birds etc costs are 5euros/day and itīs possible to hunt as many little game as you can get.
One year visitor license for all little game is 100euros and that needs a permission from hunting clubs government.
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there are guys that shoot a well made wood bow as well as the laminated bows,, so there is alot to be said for that,,
look at the scores of the field archers before fiberglass,,,, you may shoot the bob lee better ,,,,,, all wood bows are not made equal,, and if there is something to be said bout fiberglass bows that would be on another forum,, :)
I actually shoot a selfbow better than modern laminates. The selfbow's that I have made thus far have a slower cast which means that my arrow point is not pointing at the dirt when I'm taking shot's within 30 paces or so. They are also smoother on the draw (less stack) and are custom fitted for me personally.
I like a nice slow bow that can shoot a heavy arrow when shooting close distances. For longer distances a faster bow is better because the fletching has more time to correct the flight of the arrow. At close distances a fast bow can lead to some really erratic misses and poor arrow flight in my personal experience.
That being said, while these shooting exam's are good in that you can get a general idea of an archers grouping accuracy. I have personally found that my one shot accuracy is far greater than my grouping accuracy.
If I really bear down and put all of my attention on the spot and take special care to hit my spot I can hit a good shot when it count's. Some people might shoot tight groups but might buckle under pressure.