Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Stick Bender on December 05, 2017, 05:00:27 pm
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I made my 3 rd osage bow this year for the 2017 hunting season and it was the first one I made with out any induced reflex that actualy held reflex ,but when unstrung at first it would have about 1/8 soft set and then return to normal reflex after about 15 min. after several months and probably 700-800 or more arrows it actually gained reflex and instantly returns to full reflex when unstrung, at first I just chalked it up to decreasing RH mine is averaging 42% inside now but talked to a friend about it and told me he experienced the same with most of his osage bows after post curing but it surprised me as this stave was 2 years off the stump and inside for almost a year before I started on it ,I was just curious what others have experienced , I had another pick up a lot of draw weight but not more reflex ?
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I'm guessing the moisture had a lot to do with it
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Osage seems to cure and improve with age, your may have had moisture but maybe not. My broadhead flight bow I used for about 10 years. I used it for 3-d and occasional hunting and target practice most of the time. Every year at the flights I had to scrape off about 2 or 3# to make the 50# limits. I didn't go every year but at least 5 times I had to reduce weight. Also every year it shot progressively further by just a tad.
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i have an osage bow that was heavy,, 20 years ago, I am afriad to weigh it ,, if I get it strung,,:)
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Brad, you should string it up an weigh it for the hell of it. I find the majority of my bows stay pretty consistent over the years. I like the ones that improve with age
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Osage orange is by far my favorite!too bad it is so expensive to get shipped north of the 49! It's gold colored for a reason!
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I always suspected there is somthing else going on to if the some bows still needs adjustment years later and what I didnt mention in the opening post is I dried this stave in my make shift hot box over severale weeks to, but if its years later with some bows what maybe ? harding of the resins in the wood I relies its hard to talk apples to apples as osage quality varies a lot and some are not affected the same , but its some thing I think about when designing a bow.
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I had two osage bows made from wood seasoned for 10 years gain poundage after I made them, one gained 10#, go figure.
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It can seem a little like a mystery but I feel there is something to this seasoning thing.The mystery is how it seems to affect some and not others.It's one thing to watch and check though before grabbing a laid up bow favorite to shoot.
I feel some woods don't handle it as well either if there is any borderline issues about it.Logical thinking sways to the reasoning that the back has become dryer,but I think there is more to it than that yet.
I have the same thing happen to a few of the bows here too.It's like an old timer here making a pond and putting in large osage posts in for structure for the fish told me once about osage.In time they will turn into iron.....lol.
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30 year old wood can be too wet to make a bow. The day it was cut means absolutely nothing, its where its kept after the fact that matters. I've never had a bow change to the point I noticed it, but I've heard of it a few times.
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Good topic Ritch....The bow you referred to gaining reflex over time from natural reflex after tillering is the best kind I think.Better more so yet then heat induced reflex bows.You got yourself a good one there.I had that happen with these sapling bows from osage too.Showing close to a gain of 1/4" of reflex after shooting and resting today more so then when originally tillered.Unbraced after shooting it showed around 1/4" soft set to be returned to it's new reflex of a scooch over 3"TTT in well under 2 hours.I tillered it after being inside roughed out to only 5 to 10 pounds above my intended draw weight for 2 to 3 months at 50% humidity then stored at 50% humidity over the next year.It was made last november.I just checked the draw weight on it here and the poundage did not increase much though.Maybe 1/2# at the most.How about yours?
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I didnt re weight yet Ed but shot it a bunch the weekend before and at the end of hunting yesterday if it picked up weight its minimal or maybe Im just not noticing but seems more snappy I will check it at the end of season still have a pocket full of tags to fill yet hopefully ! This is the bow I beefed up the lower to mids on really seem to help with the profile pulling to 29 1/4 !
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Yes we must not forget that it was tillered well too for the design.
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David Miimms sent me an elm bow blank several years ago. It was really just a few scrapes away from being finished. It was my go to bows for years. Same thing I had to keep lowering the weight at least a couple of times a year. I attributed it to moisture but I never needed that much time for my wood to reach an equal Librium.
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Yes I gotta agree it usually does'nt even take hardly a month to equalize if roughed out close to the draw weight for me to tiller it.When after being tillered the time is less yet.When a person finds a way to store them in a stable enviornment it seems they find their place to stay.
It's the only time it's advantagous to keep a slew of bows around to check on them.I try to keep a record after tillering what the bow was and what it did with what it was in a notebook.A little more than just the poundage at what draw length signed on the limb.As I don't do that as often as I should.
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Yeah...we have Michael Jordon for basketball, Wayne Gresky for hockey, Jack Nickolas for golf, Babe Ruth for Baseball and Osage Orange for selfbows.......need we say more.
DBar
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Yeah...we have Michael Jordon for basketball, Wayne Gresky for hockey, Jack Nickolas for golf, Babe Ruth for Baseball and Osage Orange for selfbows.......need we say more.
DBar
Lance Armstrong was like heat treated Elm for cycling. ;)
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I'm just starting to work with the yellow wood. I got a log from my cousin last year. I split it into four staves and removed the Bark and sap wood. The staves twisted and became anything but straight. I roughed one out kinda close and did a little straightening on it and then put them both in the corner. About a week ago I started working on the roughed out one. I chased a ring and my brother asked me is that wood really that color? I told him yes, it's Osage. They say it's King. He looked at the twisted crooked stave and said looks like firewood to me. I got the stave roughed out closer and put a d profile on the tips for steaming in static recurves. I had my aluminum foil directing the steam up the limb. When it was ready I had my brother help me clamp it to the caul. It was definitely going to be a two person job. Now I'm used to HHB so this was a very pleasant surprise. This osage Bent like a piece of copper wire I was amazed. I let it on the caul for several hours. I stared removing clamps and was again amazed as it stayed right tight to the caul. My brother was even more surprised. I worked on the second stave useing the same process and again the same results. I can't say what these staves will turn into but I don't think it'll be firewood. Compared to working with HHB this stuff is a dream. I made another caul that's 48" long and doesn't have tips bend just a inch of reflex put both of the staves on it. I like the unbraced profile. No wonky kinky starting profile like my HHB staves. It's been a interesting change up and I'm getting anxious to see what else I can learn from the wood that keeps giving.
Bjrogg
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Here's the second stave on the new caul. I should have taken before and after pictures
Bjrogg
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Looks like the start of pretty good bow BJ.
Osage has had many things said about it and compared to it.Part of its' reputation I guess.That staying after heat corrections is one of them.I've always nick named that it bends like rerod.
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BJ I really enjoyed your post with the osage suprise let us know how that one goes when I first came around I stared at a wavy stave for 6 months figuring it would be dificult to straiten & my suprise was like yours Upstate calls it Play doe !
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I've never had bow gain weight but I use my moisture meter right up to the first stringing. Jawge
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I wonder if the volatile oils and turpentine like stuff takes years to work their way out of the resins. Especially in Osage as it's so resiny. That would very slowly harden the resins and possibly lead to increase compression resistance. I know a lump of pine pitch takes forever to harden, especially if you're waiting for it.
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I think what I'm remembering about a little weight gain was when I first started making bows.Did'nt have any seasoned wood/in a hurry to get a bow made etc.Could be the situation Ritch was in too.Nowadays I don't think it's quite so much or noticeable.
From remembering what Tim Baker wrote in TBB book every ounce of moisture reduced increases the woods strength by 6%.I could have that wrong though.So a couple to a few points of moisture would make the bow anywhere from 12 to 18 per cent stronger.That has to take in account that the thickened handle would dry out the last but still have no affect on the limbs though I would think.
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I dont think all osage is created equal not talking the obvious knots ,early late ratios,Pins,ring thickness etc. but Badger spoke before about what wood he called superior that outlier bows made from them but in my humble exsperience I have noticed some a few scrapes and you can have pretty much a instant tiller change and some you can scrape & scrape with little change maybe the better is just denser and holds moisture longer hence the long cure. Who knows but when you get a good stave you know it !
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I dont think all osage is created equal not talking the obvious knots ,early late ratios,Pins,ring thickness etc. but Badger spoke before about what wood he called superior that outlier bows made from them but in my humble exsperience I have noticed some a few scrapes and you can have pretty much a instant tiller change and some you can scrape & scrape with little change maybe the better is just denser and holds moisture longer hence the long cure. Who knows but when you get a good stave you know it !
I don't run into that often mostly I think because I don't shoot most bows years later, I also seldom mark my poundage on a semi finished bow so I would not have any real stats on this but it does act like wet wood for sure. I tend to believe there is a slight hardening of the resins in the wood during the curing process but I know very little about how those chemical behave.
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This thread got me thinking so I pulled a few old bows out of the closet and checked them. One in particular was a bamboo backed osage that was about 7 years old. I just checked the draw weight and it is 68#. When I put the bow away I doubt it was over 54# no marked weight so I don't know for sure but I usually leave semi finished bows at about 54#.