Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Arrows- Sponsored by Trueshaft Archery => Topic started by: jeffp51 on December 06, 2017, 06:22:09 pm

Title: some new arrows to look at
Post by: jeffp51 on December 06, 2017, 06:22:09 pm
my last set of arrows was down to three from the six I started with, so I decided to make a new set. these are red osier shoots harvested from the river bank. I bare shaft tuned the first one here, and it came in about 10# lighter than the formulas would have me think--but I haven't been accounting for off-center shooting.  All six are matched to withing a thousandth of an inch--which is probably as accurate as I can get with my caliper spining method.  the shafts were matched to within a grain of each other, but adding feathers and sinew wraps threw that off a little bit.  I stained them with a light honey colored oak stain sealed with some boiled linseed oil--this to take off the pure white color.  The cresting is enamel paint, which meant they needed a top coat of polyurethane spray (oil sealers would smear the paint).  The fletches are primaries from a turkey my neighbor shot, although I think one or two of them are from Mullet, too.

When I shoot them, the fletches are a little loud--with a hum, but since they aren't hunting arrows, it doesn't matter.  They seem to fly as straight as I can shoot them.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: Pat B on December 06, 2017, 06:26:52 pm
Those are great looking arrows. Do you know the physical weight? Red osier is pretty heavy.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: jeffp51 on December 06, 2017, 07:04:24 pm
So a few more stats"
Length is 30.5"
Shaft weight is about 447grain, give or take 2 grain -- except for the #5 arrow, it was 433 grains
finished weight is between 597 (no. 5 again) and  617 grains.  The fletches make the other arrows vary by no more than 9 grains.  Close enough.
spine on all of them is 61#, with a deflection of .424"-.427" as measured with my digital calipers and a 2 lb. weight.  I am shooting them from a 55# osage bow.  So based on spine, they fit in the 10 grains per pound, but slightly heavier if you base it on the bow weight.
points are 125 grain glue on field tips --11/32" diameter
The shafts are mildly barrel shaped, as I sand the tip to fit the point and the nock to fit my jig, and then I sand the middles to meet weight and spine.
Balance is at 18-18.25 inches measured from the nock end.  I am not sure what that is as a percentage, as I don't know which end that is usually calculated from.
I added a grain of rice behind the cock feather as a physical index, and I like how that lets me nock an arrow without looking at the string.

The arrows shoot pretty flat at 20 yards, and hit what I look at, if I look at the broad side of a barn. --Right now I can put all six in a 2-foot target, but not in a 9-inch circle.  Safest place to be is still right on the bulls eye-- you would be pretty safe there when I shoot.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: Hawkdancer on December 06, 2017, 07:05:41 pm
Real nice arrows.  It takes a bit of work to get them matched that close!
Hawkdancer
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: jeffp51 on December 06, 2017, 07:09:45 pm
spining takes me about an hour per arrow with this method.  If you mess one up and have to start over (some shafts just don't want to make spine and weight together) then it takes a little longer.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: willie on December 06, 2017, 08:34:43 pm
Nice looking work. getting primitive arrows to match weight and spine isn't the easiest.  I think I read somewhere that NA people put a lot more work into arrow making than bow making.......  must have been a good reason for that  ;)
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: TSA on December 06, 2017, 08:38:02 pm
those are beautiful arrows- veritable works of art!
did you use a cresting jig?

foc is measured from the front of the arrow, in as much how far, as a % is the actual balance point ahead of the physical center of the arrow
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: jeffp51 on December 06, 2017, 08:48:30 pm
I should post a picture of my creating jig. It is an 8 inch 1x2 wit two finish nails at crossed angles to each other at either end. Very primitive. It leaves the work a little uneven, but I like that they don't look factory made.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: Aaron H on December 07, 2017, 03:15:35 am
Very well done Jeff.  Making arrows to these standards takes quite a bit of time, effort, and talent.  :OK
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: PEARL DRUMS/PEARLY/PD/DRUMS on December 07, 2017, 03:18:43 am
Fantastic work, Jeff.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: penderbender on December 07, 2017, 06:20:56 am
Beautiful arrows Jeff. A lot of time went into those and it shows. Cheers- Brendan
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: DC on December 07, 2017, 06:58:37 am
Beautiful job Jeff. But I have a question. You said the shaft is 447 and finished weight is 617. That's a diff of 170, but you say the tips are 125. Do the fletching and paint weigh 45 grains? I've never checked my own but that seems like a lot. Maybe not though ??? ???
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: jeffp51 on December 07, 2017, 09:23:18 am
DC, that seemed strange to me too.  It has two coats of poly and three coats of linseed oil.  The quills on the feathers were a little thick, and curved quite a bit, so I was not able to thin them down as much as I would have liked.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: DC on December 07, 2017, 09:46:57 am
I'm doing some in a day or so. I'll weigh them before and after. I thought fletching had negligible weight, maybe I'm wrong.

PS I went and weighed 3 rough fletches =12 grains. So less when trimmed.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: jeffp51 on December 07, 2017, 10:28:33 am
I did the same thing when you pointed it out this morning.  11 grains.  32+ grains for paint and sinew wraps seems like a lot.  I don't know where the weight is coming from, but I made multiple measurements on each and recorded the weight in my notebook when I was sanding the shafts, so I am certain about the raw shaft weights (this weight was after the tapering of the tip for the points).
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: Knoll on December 07, 2017, 10:57:00 am
Fine fine looking arrows, Jeff. Don't "misplace" any of 'em!
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: Danzn Bar on December 07, 2017, 03:49:12 pm
Wow those are great looking arrows.  Bet they shoot good too...
DBar
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: BowEd on December 07, 2017, 05:16:07 pm
Good looking set of shoot arrows.Seems like I almost get at least an hour into each of mine from scratch before they are finished and shooting.Fletching and finish I always figure anywhere from 20 to 25 grains extra on mine.The feathers are a constant.It's the amount of finish a person puts on them that'll make that more variable.Your extra weight is probably the cresting added too.Sometime I'll start decorating mine too.At least stain them some anyway.I think there's been a time or two the bone white of them has spooked a deer at times for me but probably not too.
Mine balance 4" ahead of center making them only in the lower teens % wise FOC.From a 30" long arrow.I figure mine cross multiplication wise.4/30 by x/100%,400 divided by 30= 13.3%.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: ksnow on December 07, 2017, 05:59:24 pm
Wow, that is an impressive set of arrows. Quite inspirational. I now have a target to strive for. I hope those serve you well.

Kyle
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: jeffp51 on December 07, 2017, 07:06:40 pm
Thanks for the kind compliments.  Here is a picture of my "cresting jig".  Also my homemade arrow wrench and my heat gun that I use for straightening.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: jeffp51 on December 07, 2017, 07:14:42 pm
Good looking set of shoot arrows.Seems like I almost get at least an hour into each of mine from scratch before they are finished and shooting.Fletching and finish I always figure anywhere from 20 to 25 grains extra on mine.The feathers are a constant.It's the amount of finish a person puts on them that'll make that more variable.Your extra weight is probably the cresting added too.Sometime I'll start decorating mine too.At least stain them some anyway.I think there's been a time or two the bone white of them has spooked a deer at times for me but probably not too.
Mine balance 4" ahead of center making them only in the lower teens % wise FOC.From a 30" long arrow.I figure mine cross multiplication wise.4/30 by x/100%,400 divided by 30= 13.3%.

Ha!  that makes mine just 6% FOC.  I could use heavier points to help with that, but then I would need more spine to compensate, which would make for a heavy arrow indeed.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: BowEd on December 08, 2017, 03:29:25 am
As long as they fly clean that's the no.1 priority.A friend of mine does the FOC balancing here with carbons which are easier to get higher numbers FOC.He's got his out to almost 30%.Balancing around 6" just back from the tip.He swears by it for helping with penetration and I really think he's right.Most times the best you can hope for on wooden arrows would maybe be into the high teens or low 20's and that would be full length tapering with it being footed with a heavy tip too.
These arrows can be as much work to be as a person wants to put on them for different uses.For target shooting as long as they fly clean that's no.1.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: Swampman on December 09, 2017, 06:13:11 am
Wow. Another set of beautiful arrows Jeff.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: jeffp51 on December 09, 2017, 09:20:06 am
Mike!  nice to see you.  I haven't seen you on here for a while.  What have you been up to?  Those arrows I sent you still working?
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: Swampman on December 10, 2017, 09:49:22 am
Hi Jeff. I haven't had much time for anything archery related lately. I started a new job, sold out house, lived with my mother in law for 5 weeks and then moved into a new house. Then I had some work to do in our new house and still have more to do. I hope to have a new work area built in my garage sometime soon to get back to building bows and arrows.

Unfortunately with all that is going on, the bow and arrows that you built didn't make it into the woods. They defiantly will next year though. All these changes will give me more free time in the future. It looks like you are keeping busy with bows and arrows. I really like the veterans day bow you made.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: jeffp51 on December 10, 2017, 03:17:54 pm
Sounds really familiar.  All last year my job was killing me, and all my spare energy was going into finishing a garage.  Now the Garage is finished, some of my responsibilities at work have lessened, and I am starting to have a little more time.  Living with the in-laws is always a challenge, even when the situation is really good.  You are going to love having the workshop back up and running.

Really good to hear from you. Keep at it.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: Trapper Rob on December 10, 2017, 05:27:19 pm
Those are some beauties.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: bjrogg on December 12, 2017, 03:41:21 am
Wow missed these. Those are some really nice arrows Jeff. I just love the look of really well made Red Osier arrow and those are some beauties. Ed I know that I've had the bone white catch the eyes of a nervous doe before. I really like its look for target arrows but will dull it down for hunting from now on. Those look like some real good shooters Jeff. Keep shooting and that bullseye will end up punched right out of your target.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: Stoner on December 29, 2017, 10:35:00 am
I really like the crest design on those arrows. But I really like the celtic knotwork on the quiver. Have done quite a bit of that in stone. John
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: jeffp51 on December 30, 2017, 10:10:33 pm
That quiver was a lot of fun to make. I like how it fits and looks too. I like the look of old Celtic art and if you are doing it in stone, I am very impressed.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: neuse on January 01, 2018, 04:20:29 am
Gorgeous looking arrows, great job.
Title: Re: some new arrows to look at
Post by: Scottski on January 13, 2018, 10:23:05 am
Nice arrows.