Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: SixRabbit on December 31, 2017, 12:42:11 am

Title: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: SixRabbit on December 31, 2017, 12:42:11 am
My favorite arrow wood is hazel. Dogwood works next best in my experience. I don't have any experience with ocean spray but others say it is good. I have a bunch of oso berry shoots drying, too. I would like to coppice(prune to the ground) hazel bushes. Will they more reliably produce straight shoots this way? I would also like to try coppicing with dogwood, chokecherry, serviceberry and wild rose. I am curious if anyone knows about coppicing and suitability  with these species. Also, if you have any experience with wax myrtle(myrica) and buckeye(aesculus californica) salmonberry and elderberry, I'd love to hear.  I've seen straight shoots from these plants. Can I prune side branches from straight shoots to grow a straight knot free trunk for bows too? Thanks
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: Pat B on December 31, 2017, 07:58:20 am
In the wild you can cut shrubs to the ground and in many cases they will produce straight shoots. I wouldn't do thin in a landscape because it is unattractive. For the landscape cut out crossing shoots, damaged shoots and the older shoots. This will keep the plant looking nice and is actually better for the plant. Spring, when buds begin to swell is the best time for this.   Plants in the shade or shaded areas are more likely to send up straighter shoots.
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: loefflerchuck on December 31, 2017, 01:20:24 pm
Elderberry was a mistake made by historians and since quoted many times. I even read some elderberry arrows were self arrows with no fore-shaft. Just try to find one elderberry arrow shaft and you'll see what I mean.
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: DC on January 01, 2018, 11:47:24 am
The Elderberry around here is much like celery(except round) until it gets to be around 3/4" in diameter. It really doesn't harden up until it's almost bow size.
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: loefflerchuck on January 01, 2018, 03:20:49 pm
DC- it's like that everywhere in the west
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: DC on January 01, 2018, 05:39:31 pm
I wonder if it's different in drier climates. Or does it even grow in drier climates?
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: loefflerchuck on January 04, 2018, 02:37:27 pm
It grows in parts of the Utah desert and is the same. It was an mistaken species. Maybe mock orange.
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: SixRabbit on January 04, 2018, 11:04:03 pm
A shoot I took for a hand drill is pretty firm. , I'm not sure if it's possible to get a 5/16" shaft that is strong enough. This piece I have now is less than 10mm thick. It seems very hard and tough. If you can find some that has an even diameter and enough length, I think it would work. It's from sambucus caerulea and the bark was purple when I cut it.
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: SixRabbit on January 04, 2018, 11:09:35 pm
I think severe pruning or coppicing would help the elderberry make more straight shoots. I should collect some more and play around with it(maybe even coppice a few, hehe.) I'd also love to try arrows of wax myrtle(morella Californica). Anyone know if this species or genus is a good bow wood?
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: SixRabbit on January 04, 2018, 11:12:56 pm
The problems I'm seeing with this elderberry shoot is the major tapering, it's also pithy. That might compromise the arrow if it's shaved down to even diameter.
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: SixRabbit on January 04, 2018, 11:19:37 pm
At longer than one arms length, the base is 14mm and the top is 8mm. So major tapering. But even at 8-10mm diameter the elderberry appears to be strong enough for arrows, about like dogwood strength I'd say.
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: Pat B on January 05, 2018, 09:46:39 pm
A sinew wrap would support the self nocks in a pithy wood. I've made arrows from horseweed, a perennial weed that dies to the ground each year. Thin walls, large pith but the sinew wrap supports it enough to shoot. You might not get 100 shots from one but it only takes one shot through the rib cage to kill a deer.
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: Ryan Jacob on January 07, 2018, 12:01:23 am
Pat B
Isn’t that plant basically a long tube of sandpaper? If that will work anything could :o
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: Pat B on January 07, 2018, 08:25:05 am
Horseweed is a long tube of lengthwise strands similar to cane. It's not as strong as cane but still strong enough.Add sinew wrap at the nock and around the head it strong enough to kill. I have a horseweed arrow that Jamie Leffler killed a deer in New England with that had a stone point and shot from a 45# sinew backed hickory bow. The only damage to the arrow is where the head was mounted. Even though the stone point was never found the arrow killed it.
 Years ago in PA Magazine a guy wrote an article about making horseweed arrows.
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: DC on January 07, 2018, 11:32:47 am
Pat B
Isn’t that plant basically a long tube of sandpaper? If that will work anything could :o
Maybe you're thinking of Horsetail?
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: Pat B on January 07, 2018, 01:18:10 pm
Yeah, you are thinking of another plant like DC said.   
Horseweed(Conyza canadensis) is a perennial weed that dies back to the ground each winter but comes back from the crown each spring.
Horse tail, aka scouring rush(Equisetum arvense) is the tube like plant you described that has lots of silica in it and is used as sandpaper sometimes.
 Google horseweed. You may have it in your area and you could harvest it next fall for arrows.
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: loefflerchuck on January 10, 2018, 11:08:00 pm
SixRabbit, you sure you are talking about elderberry? "like dogwood" would not be elderberry. Elderberry shoots grow like cane but have a thinner wall and the nodes are more crooked than most cane. It is very hard to find a shoot under 1/2" that is hard enough to shoot out of more than 30# bow.
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: GlisGlis on January 17, 2018, 03:37:58 am
Quote
I think severe pruning or coppicing would help the elderberry make more straight shoots

I read somewhere that an elderberry sapling was bent and tied so it had to grow almost on ground and that induced alot of straight shoots.
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: Pat B on January 17, 2018, 07:31:22 am
Glis, I'd think that laying a shoot parallel on the ground would encourage side shoots to grow.
Title: Re: California arrow woods and pruning and coppicing questions
Post by: Ryan Jacob on January 22, 2018, 07:59:45 am
Ah yes, my bad. Also I live in the Philippines so bamboo branches are go to