Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Primitive Skills => Topic started by: bjrogg on February 19, 2018, 09:52:03 am
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I was given two bear hides last year. They have tags all legal and were skinned really well. they left extra flesh around sensitive areas. They basically skinned him so he could be stuffed and left paws on cutting them off at "wrists" leaving the rest unskinned. I couldn't seem to get a grip on the wrist to finish skinny by turning inside out so I made a cut from wrist through pad to toes and claws. Then I skinned out the rest of paws cutting toes at last knuckle joint. I cut all the fat off the pads and am pretty happy but there is still individual pads at base of each claw. Should I slit these pads and cut off fat from them to? I have him in picking bath righ now. He has to stay in there for at least 72 hours (he's been in for 24) I can take him out to work on him and put him back in. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with him yet but I'd like to keep his paws and claws on if I can.
Bjrogg
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For taxidermy purposes or a wall hanger, there is no need to flesh the toes. The pickle and tan will penetrate those areas and for the most part they will hold their shape when dry... For mounts or full rugs I pack clay in the toes after rehydraiting..
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Thanks so much for the reply Mounter. I'm surprised by the answer. It seemed liked the pad was all fat. Sometimes I think I'd like to get into taxidermy. I just don't have enough time for all my hobbies.
Bjrogg
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18 years now bjrogg... It has moments when I still enjoy it.
Just to clarify... I do flesh the main pads just not each individual toe... Bones and meat are removed to the actual claw. Good luck... I finally got my bear out of the freezer from 2013 last year. Fleshed, tanned and open mouth rug mounted... It's been waiting to be finished for 6 months.. One of these days.
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Pretty sure I know what your saying mounter. It's one thing to do it because you feel like it and quite another to do it because you have to. I do love fur and making as much use of animals as I can but it is hard work and some people might even say messy.lol. I'm sure there's faster methods and my fleshing beam really was way to small for Yogi but it took me most of a day to flesh and finish skinning him. How do you get the paws skinned when try cut off bone at wrist joints. I was tempted to screw a handle on the bone and use it to grip for turning inside out. Thanks again for your reply
Bjrogg
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For actual rug mounts I just remove the pads, they're not needed. Everything else, just like you did..Slice around the outside of the pad and pull. The pads are usually too thick and stiff to turn.
I have sharpened s hooks attached to an overhear beam I hook into the foot, gives you something to pull against. Still alot of knife work, I use replaceable scalpels.
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Thanks again Mounter. I've skinned a lot of animals but not with paws attached and I've never done a bear before. Is there anyway to measure head for skull form after it's skinned? I see them in Van Dykes catalog and curious about measuring for one. Also do you sew felt on or glue it? Hope I'm not asking to many questions here but it seems like I'm talking to the right person.
Bjrogg
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I don't want you to get the impression that I'm a bear expert. I don't live in bear country, so only get 4 or 5 a year. Also there's as many ways to do taxidermy as there is to build bows, so I'm sure someone will read this and probably have different advice...
It's a bit of a guessing game. If it's in the pickle or even tanned it shrinks approximately 25%. Once rehydrated with water it will stretch if it's thinned properly. I'd wait to your done tanning, measure it flat and go one size bigger. If it measures 4inch, get the 4 1/2 in form. etc... that should be really close. I generally have a few sizes to test fit, and that an option, order 2 sizes you think will fit and return the one you don't use.
For most of my rugs hot glue if they want flat felt... if they want a pleated look I send them off to be sewed at about $60 dollars a foot..😳
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Thanks so much again mounter. That's 4 or 5 more than I've ever seen before now so I appreciate every bit of advice I can get. I wasn't planning on making a rug since I didn't shoot this bear anyway but maybe. From what I could see the fur looks great but I didn't see entire hide . Had one hole in the head that I don't think would be to hard to fix. Possibly even just stick together with pins and let dry? If not I can close it with about 3 stitches. I have some ideas for making stuff by cutting him up to. I've got another one in the freezer if I get this one done. I haven't seen it yet curious what it's like. I could see black through hide but not like root folicles when you scrape to thin. I did get one swipe with the fleshing knife to thin and could see hair.
Thanks again
Bjrogg
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Just guessing but it seems like the leather might be similar to coon? Not as grizzly behind the neck maybe. It seems like it should soften up nice.
Bjrogg
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Good score BJ.You can get all sorts of nice projects done out of a decent sized black bear hide.Quite a jump start on something larger to make out of it compared to using tanned coon hides.Turning the eyes,ears,nose,lips,& feet are'nt all that necessary for projects for the hide itself.Just so the pickling has gotten through those areas good.
Usually fall hides will be thinner then spring hides leather thickness wise.At least it's that way with most animals.
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Yup Ed a whole lot more hide to work with than a mink or muskrat that's for sure. I'm really not set up that's good for hides this big yet. I should make a lot bigger fleshing beam. Getting kinda excited to see how it turns out.
Bjrogg
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This has been a major project. I finally have my bear pickled, tanned and softening oils massaged in. He's been drying since Friday if I remember right. He's finally getting close to done. I have been working him over a 90 degree edge on a piece of steel and brushing with a steel wire brush stretching twisting working everywhere and special attention to places that are just the right moisture. The hide should turn white when stretching if right. To dry it turns stiff to wet it won't break fibers. It seems if you don't keep teasing it when it's wet it gets hard even when it's just right. the whole hide is never perfect at the same time and you have to keep working till entire hide is dry and white.
Here's some pictures Paws
Bjrogg
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Hide as I'm working it's one spot to wet the other almost right.
Bjrogg
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Not going to be able to finish him tonight so I turned him fur side out overnight to slow drying
Bjrogg
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Looks great!!! Almost there..... :OK
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Like Mounter said..It looks great.You got yourself a bear hide!!!
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Thanks mounter, it's getting exciting now. Burned a lot of calories to get this far still need to burn a few more. I'm hoping he'll be really close to done by tonight.
Thanks Ed just for the heck of it I looked on Muscow hides and was very surprised to see what black bear with paw and claws sell for. Of course I'm not planning on selling him. Still not sure what I'm going to do with him yet but I've got some ideas.
Bjrogg
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My son and I shot bear this past fall with our bows. We skinned the bear out, leaving the skull in the hide. We will skin out the skulls this spring and do our own European mounts with them. I am looking for a business to send the hides to so I get them them tanned. I want then nice and soft for project use.
A couple of very generous folks on here made possibles bags using the paw as the flap so I am going to give that a try and maybe quivers out of the hides. Couple of ideas I have for bear hides Brian.
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I do wish I had his skull jeb but I'm happy to have what I have. I have a small animal skull collection I enjoy. I'm hoping he'll turn out nice and soft. His fur looks great so far but I wonder what time of year he was harvested. It does seem like hairs are close to leather or in some small cases even a few sticking through. I normally just tan my own smaller fur barriers that are harvested during prime fur season. Hopefully hide holds fur good.
I've got a few ideas on what to make jeb. I'm thinking the front legs would make a killer quiver with the claws and paws at the bottom
Bjrogg
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I found and I'm sure your experienced enough to know that taking your time/looking around etc./staying involved with this hobby and hobbies like it that you will see and get good ideas of what to make from the bear hide or just leave it as it is as a display somewhere.Just make sure your measurements are correct of course before cutting it up.I usually like to make stuff that is practical and useful but that's just me.
Here's 1 idea....Years ago I made a pair of prime coon hide vests.Took 9 of them for each XL vest only using the 6" wide center cut from the backs.Gave 1 to my dad.He would wear it around in public along with the coon hat.At the cafe/at the grocery store etc./all over.....lol.I just wore mine at rendezvous's.
(https://i.imgur.com/z1VFKGP.jpg)
Again congrats on your job well done there.I used to have a pair of bear hides years ago but traded them away for some odd reason.Did'nt tan them either.I think I traded them for more teepee poles.....lol.Used to put them across as is on some willow rod back rests.Not very good backrests but they worked great back in the day.It's gratifying to get yourself in the situation your in now so take your time.
(https://i.imgur.com/SHB575g.jpg)
When cutting up self done brain tan hides for projects I go through the same dilemma of decision making.
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Personally BJ I like the idea for you of a quiver and possibles bag for your self.A set!!
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Thanks Ed. Man you sure do beautiful work. I'd wear that coat and hat to church. Bet your dad was proud as could be.
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Well still wrestling with the bear yet. He's still putting up a good fight but I'm winning. He's been a lot slower drying then I'm use to. The white areas keep getting bigger it's probably good it hasn't dried real fast. I've been spending a couple hours a day working hide. I stretch him all over using corners of my flat steel.
Bjrogg
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Awesome BJ.It's a lot of work I know but you'll get it done.It's quite an undertaking that's for sure.
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Cool thread. Lots of info and ideas. :-D (SH) (AT) )P(
Zuma
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Thanks Zuma believe it or not I'm still wrestling that bear. Got him pretty good up to neck and shoulders and they are pretty close I think. Sure taking much longer than I'm use to for smaller animals. He's getting white everywhere now but still has some moisture in some spots. Might put him in the dryer with heat off and tumble him in a day or two when he's dry and broken.
Bjrogg
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Well finally done bear wrestling. He turned out pretty good. I may still split him up the belly but for now I'm just going to let him hang around the shop till I figure out exactly what I'm going to do with him. Gonna get real busy again and he's gonna have to just wait. Was a big job but I'm happy with how he came out.
Bjrogg
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Congrats BJ!!!Glad you perservered through the job.Now you can sit back and ruminate over what you want to make.Good feeling for sure.
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Thanks Ed, I know you know more than most how much time and elbow grease this takes. I know it took me more of both than it probably should have. I'm not really set up for these big critters. I don't think I'm gonna get to the second bear till next winter but I already know I'm gonna get better set up for big critters before I start Yogi II.
Anyone thinking of doing this it is rewarding but a huge amount of effort over a extended period of time. Nothing you can't do but there is a reason they charge so much for Bear Hides.lol.
Hope you all learned as much as I did.
Bjrogg
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Well said BJ.The thing is the way I see it those tanneries once they get their overhead paid for and doing hides in massive numbers they got the advantage then.That was quite a task for anyone out there BJ.Don't doubt that a bit.
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Haven't been here for a while so I won't go much further to fatten your ego.
See Mahogany point in Flintknapping, That bruin is fantastic, oops! >:D
Zuma
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Thanks Ed and thanks for the encouragement along the way. I really underestimated th e time this one was going to take.
Zuma your making me blush again. Thanks my friend maybe some day I'll get to show you how good I am at fishing to.
Bjrogg
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:)"Come on down" or how about a goose hunt?
Zuma
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I'm going to have to try take you up on the fishing some day Zuma. I've got all the geese I can handle outside my door. Your sure welcome to come thin them out some time if you'd like. My brother hunts them with his buddy. His buddy is a outfitter for deer and goose hunts. He always wants my brother to come help him so the shooters who don't shoot so well see birds fall out of the sky and claim them as theirs.lol. Took my brother awhile to figure out why he always wanted him to tag along. They have about three or four seasons here. I'll try let you know when and how much$. I'm amazed what some of these die hard goose hunters will sit through. We have a season in winter and I've seen them sit in my field from dark till late afternoon. Temps hanging around zero. Those guys don't need anyone to drop birds for them. They had a big crew and filled up a pickup load of birds. I'm thinking youd probably rather do one of the early fall late summer hunts. Could be wrong though maybe you'd like the winter one. (S)
Bjrogg
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Nice job Brian. That bear looks to be a good size one. I am still going to seek out a tanning company to do mine and my sons. He doesn't want the hide so that will give me two hides to make a few things with.
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Thanks Jeb. Yes I would say unless you really like doing this kinda stuff I'd recommend sending it out to. I learned a lot and am sure I could do a bit better on the next one but that's not going to be till next winter. By then I'll forget how much work it was.lol
Bjrogg