Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: half eye on February 21, 2018, 08:53:48 am
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I haven't been posting for quite a while but have been checking in occasionally. I noticed that a lot of members / friends have not been posting either. I lost my fire when it became obvious to me that there just was no room on PA for my approach to, and interest in, archery. I am mostly interested in Native American bows and culture.
Lately I see the areas of expansion in topic areas and that's always a good thing, but the regular bow section is still the same techno-approach, modern material, computer analysis things that made me go away originally. That is when I really noticed that a lot of my friends were not posting either.
I made this post to see if any of them were still around and had any input on this subject. I feel bad that there was not / is not, any room for the "primitive" bows and methods. I'm attaching several pics of my type of bow interest. I think the bows are well made, and beautiful as well. These bows have been proven in the hunting woods and as far as I know they are still shooting. They were all traded to friends that I thought would like them, but more importantly, use them.
So, if any of you guys are still checking in once in awhile let me know what you think.
Rich Rousseau
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a few more
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I'd say there's definitely an interest. I would agree though, there seems to be a lot of analysis of specs, force, draw weight, charts of all kinds, and technical info that goes beyond what I care to worry about. I've always been more inclined to just keep it as simple as possible. However, I can't fault somebody for wanting to learn more about the technical aspect of bow making. But, where do you draw the line between primitive bow making and modern bow making? Your guess is as good as mine Rich.
You make some beautiful bows, and they work damn good. That's all I need know.
Tattoo Dave
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I feel the same Rich. I could care less about the analysis, ect. and prefer the simplicity of a good ole' primitive bow. I have 3 of your bows and they are in a place of honor in my collection. I don't shoot much any more like I used to but I'm still occasionally making a bow or two.
We've missed you and your perspective on Native American bows and your fine examples of these bows and the accessories that go along with them. Please stay in touch. :OK
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Half eye I don't know you personally but I love your bows you've posted in the past and would be very interested to see more of them. I think there's plenty of room here for them. I don't get into all the charts and formulas either but don't worry myself about those that do. I do like the look and feel of Native American bows. I don't know nearly enough about them. I build my bows with some of those styles influencing them but I don't make historical representations of them. I don't have the knowledge to do that. I do believe I probably stumble upon some of the same designs purely by accident simply because I tend to use mostly hand tools and rarely measure anything. Granted not stone tools but draw knife, rasp and scrapper. I very much hope that you and your friends return to the site and fill in the space that is there for us to appreciate your works.
Sincerely
Bjrogg
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Those are the bows I miss seeing the most. My interest in Native America culture since I was a young kid is what got me interested in making bows, although not just NA style. The simplicity is what makes it so fascinating. The physics and science aspect is very interesting and is a great way to get a better understanding. I love math, but if I could build a bow with a formula, I probably would have lost interest long ago. Thanks for bring this topic up Halfeye.
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The great thing about this form is the diversity of the bows
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I do appreciate the information that comes from these in depth threads but I must admit to glossing over any math. To me any knowledge, whether it comes from history or modern means, is good knowledge and I will pay attention. If it gets too deep I can click "Mark as read" and continue on. I do miss your bows Rich, nobody makes bendy bows like you, and I definitely noticed you weren't posting anymore. So stick with us and just ignore the stuff that bores you :D
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Good thread. Very nice equipment that you put together. It was finding my first stone point on the ground that gave me the desire to advance my archery towards primitive ways, making my own self bows, arrow shafts and stone points. I am on a facebook page called Hardcore Traditional. Well kind of as many of the posters use carbon arrows and they about as far from traditional as you can get. I am just a guest so I let that go. Been shooting a bow for over 60 years and I really enjoy the traditional/primitive ways of archery. Thanks again for the postings.
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As an old(er) guy, my interest is in the NA and older European styles, I am not "abo" by any means, but use mostly hand tools, except in rough out. I do believe the threads on techie stuff can get overwhelming at times, but some guys get their jollies with that. Enjoy the builds and info on the more primitive bows and equipment much more! Your bows and gear are very good, and I'd like to see more like them!
Hawkdancer
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Hi Rich, I always enjoyed looking at your bows as well as reading your posts. I also enjoy the more technical topics, and would hate to see one type exclude the other. Just keep on posting.
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I very seldom read much of the technical stuff. Not what I was after when I started making these bows. I have two bandsaws but usually just rough a bow out with a hatchet. You should post your bows Rich, they always looked great to me except I'd never be able to shoot one with the short draw.
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The great thing about this form is the diversity of the bows
I think it's like bubby said. There's room for everyone here. It seems to me like every time they put a special section in for ABO knapping or horn bows or war bows nobody goes to them and you can't post those in the regular bow section. I like looking at what I like and might check out some stuff I'm not really into if it doesn't get to over my head. If it does I just don't read it. If you want to post your Native American bows here I see no reason not to. I think there's plenty of room for everyone. I would look at them and I'm sure others would to.
Bjrogg
Bjrogg
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I always enjoy looking at your works of art.
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Make them and post them buddy. There are lots of people that will appreciate them. I don't post much because I'm not smart enough to figure out the picture posting thing. Maybe someday I will figure it out and post more. I think I recognize one of them bows ;)
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I've missed your posts. Keep doin' what your doin' and posting the pictures. :OK
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Where did I see that coyote bow & arrow quiver along with that bow before. It's hanging in my house thanks Rich.
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I love ballistics and long range shooting and all that technical stuff with my firearms but the beauty of primitive archery comes with the simplicity. I loved watching the movies and reading the stories of the natives when I was younger and it was the coolest thing finding an atlatl head when the water was low on the river. So far I’ve made a few bows and they’ve all been the scrape and pull. Judging tiller with my eyes. Not the most efficient and best but I like em. Yours all look great!
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I love the quivers and bow cases that you have made. The bows are outstanding . one day God willing I will try my hand at a coyote bow case. they almost look to good to take out of the house, i could look at this type of art all day and never get bored. I need you to tell me how you tanned the hides with the fur on without it slipping.
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+2 on the hair on hide tanning!
Hawkdancer
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I enjoy both ends of the spectrum, and am not sure why some of those that focus on primitive would feel marginalized if the discussion gets technical. That said, I have noticed the loss of interest by some like Rich. There is always an ebb and flood of members and participation, but if folks are hesitant to post, who would otherwise participate, then perhaps it is time for a dedicated primitive bow section.
My view is that this forum follows the interests of the magazine and it subscribers, and primitive archery was the original focus, so Primitive Bows should get top billing, especially as we have recently added forges and muzzleloaders.
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I do miss seeing and reading about your bows Rich and others that build that type, I am not much on the tech side either but appreciate those that are, their is room for both, as was said where do you draw the line, I tell folks " I make wood bows" That is about as far as it goes for me. ;) :) :)
Pappy
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It is obvious that I left the wrong impression in the initial post. Willie makes a good point, so let me clarify.
I do not think there should be a special section for primitive bows. The entire site is supposed to be about primitive archery. The point I was trying to make is that a post on primitive doesn't need a lot of comment on how fast-flight would make it shoot faster, using the modern epoxy glues will make it better, etc. Basically if a person posts a primitive bow they dont need the techno-speak questions. Likewise there is no need for all the attitude about they are simple, too easy to make, have a load of vibration, are too slow and never going to win a flight shoot etc. The analogy would be to try and explain why a person wants to shoot a flintlock smooth-bore and go back in time and enjoy the experience of doing so. No body asks why they are not glass bedded, synthetic stocked, scope mounted etc. most people just get it.
I am not good at picking examples etc. but please do not think I am advocating a "special section" for primitive bows, or that it's a matter of being a "primitive snob", there is way to much of that stuff anyway. Maybe a little more respect all around would help.
rich
PS: I am going to shut up now, but Willie maybe you were correct on that matter also. Just a natural order of recycling people, probably a good thing in the end.
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Rich, bows like yours are what I love about this site. The bows you have posted in the past are what get my bow making juices flowing. I have many future projects in my head and most of them are of similar styles to the work you do. I hope you continue to post more in the future.
Mike
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I don't think we need a separate thread either. Like stated the name of this site is primitive archer. Sometimes I feel as though it strays a little too far from that.
There was talk a few years back about a sticky on actual Native American bows, and picture references. It'd be awesome to be able to reference what tribes made what type of bows, shooting styles, and all that good stuff. I'm thinking that has always been and still is a good idea for the forum. Not sure why it never happened. We've got stickies about all kinds of other stuff.
Tattoo Dave
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I don't make a lot of bows for myself. When I do it can be anything from a high performance recurve to a simple D bow. Makes no difference to me, I like them all
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guess I follow what you are saying a bit better, now Rich. One thing that I have noticed is that some folks present their work with a well documented post, something that takes no small amount of time and effort, just like the building of bow/kit. Some of the threads created by European members come to mind. Perhaps the professionalism? of this "presentation" theme implies a more elegant response is called for? I think we can all agree it is a bit annoying to see some posts get derailed by irrelevant comments.
Here is a thread that I have hoped would come back to life more often....
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=58067.15
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The only thing about calling a comment irrelevant is that sometimes the person asking it is new to this lifestyle and doesn't know. If the questions are answered and explained by the people that build these bows in a non condescending way they will learn quicker the attitude of the person building the style bow that Rich and a lot of other people enjoy building. I like building a bend in the handle bow occasionally and when I teach someone the first time I meet them that is usually the style I go too. Simply, because you can make a shooter in a very short time with simple tools. This allows a newby to grasp the fundamentals of bow building with simple tools, feel good about a bow that shoots and hook another one ;D. Like said, there's room for everybody and different style bows here.
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I haven't posted any bows for a while now, but I am still building them I have a few in the works now.
And like you Rich I drop in once and a while just to check things out.
I don't get into all the technical aspects when I build my bows. I do very measuring with a tape measure, mostly eye balling, I like to feel the taper of the bow limb with my fingers.
And as long as the bow feel good in hand with a smooth draw man that is perfect for me.
Oh ya that first otter quiver set looks familiar. lol My son sports it when we attend our local archery shoots. You do amazing work thanks my friend.
I haven't posted this bow its the one I made in the Native bow challenge the thread willie is referring to.
Maybe when the weather warms up I will gets some pics posted.
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My thoughts.... We all share the same passion. We come from different areas and walks of life, but all have a desire to take a raw chunk of wood, horn, or bamboo and make it bend suitable to cast an arrow.
I love the native bows, particularly the eastern Cherokee and creek styles. My personal taste is a modestly finished bow, stiff to slightly bending in a very small handle section. I make that bow very much personalized to me, with no desire to replicate any other style or historically accurate artifact. When I rough that bow out of a tree split stave and spend hours making it bend evenly, and put a string on it......that is a primitive bow regardless of the material it is strung with or oil it wears. I put little no thought into the mathematical aspect of it..... There are those that do, and they do so for the purpose of getting the very most out of the raw natural material they are working with.
The bows they make are also primitive.
I would wager that those of our ancestors that were truly masters at making bows, took their own approach to achieve a fast shooting, low set, long lasting bow.
My heart will always lie in the more simple bows, but I’m in awe of the works of art others produce, and do not believe that they are any less primitive in function or base materials.
I think we are a small community and all have so much in common whether we use tite bond or hide glue.
I want to see all the bows that y’all can make, from the simplest sapling D bow to the elegant recurves.
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Rich,
Been friends with you a long time now, we have gifted bows, knives, sinew, staves and the list goes on between us and hope it continues...Through talking on the phone and sharing thoughts and ideas with you over the years, I understand perfectly where you are coming from...I guess it is how one would define Primitive Archer or primitive bows...For "me" it is using all natural products, trying to make a bow you might see if you could walk back in time 200 years ago into a Native American camp or maybe a European clan of some sort...It's kind of romantic for me...I started out with compound bows then started making glass bows through bingham projects and killed many deer with these bows, but something was missing for me...As a young kid I made bows, bent hickory I would split in half after cracking the limb and river cane shafts...I always wanted to make a bow out of all natural material and take a deer or some critter with it...Well as you know my friend, I accomplished this in 2015 with Osage and Chert points... (SH) :-D
Like said, it is how one would define Primitive Archery..."I don't know if it can be defined"...My state of South Carolina says in-line black powder and the latest high tech compound bows are primitive weapons for primitive hunt seasons...
I must admit I have also held back on posting some bows also that only my family and friends like you have seen through emails...I am now in the middle of an Ocean Spray sinew backed bendy which you know about and will think about trying to post it up...
Don
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The great thing about this forum is the diversity of the bows
Preeeeecisely!
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The great thing about this forum is the diversity of the bows
Preeeeecisely!
Yep.. :OK
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+3 guy's, guess I'll jump on the ban wagon myself and agree that the Native Americans, Europeans and others also had a lot of diversity in their primitive bows... ;)
Don
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I thought I would chim in and say if it wasn’t for Rich I would’ve never made a bendy handle bow or wouldn’t have been lucky enough to have 3 half eye bows. I would like to see more bendy handle, native bows posted. I also like all those critter sets. The last one is in my basement holding a Half eye bow and all my trade arrows I’ve recieved.
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Half eye it's the work that you do (and others) that keeps me grounded and coming back for more,,,I started with wood bows ,then fancy glass bows,,,,,,lately the trad scene is getting too ,uppity for me ,,, I wish I had a drop of your knowledge and skill,! ,,,,,,,I have been trying to build more primitive lately,,,,,and not having much luck ,,so I hope you keep doing what you do it's appreciated more the you think thanks Jeff
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Rich, I'm still here. Checking in with you. I haven't been on much either. Family obligations, etc. etc. I have sensed the migration to technical aspects of bow building. I still enjoy most making a stick and a string. Although I gravitate towards sinew backed for my shorties. Hope all is well. Good to hear from you. And my "Halfeye" bow is displayed proudly in my living room.
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Your work has been an inspiration, Half-eye, your bendies are awesome. Like quite a few here, I love a piece of wood and a string. Nothing fancy, no engineering, just wood bows. Thanks for resurfacing and I look forward to seeing more of your work.
Kyle