Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: ty_in_ND on March 22, 2018, 07:41:25 pm
-
Hey all! I've been trying to figure out how I want to build this bow, so I figured since I can't come to my own conclusion, I'll see what is advised from you guys.
My goal is to build a straight limbed bow that is around 50# @ 30". My ipe belly is 72" long by 1 1/4" wide by 1/2" thick and my boo is planed down to 1/8" right now (I'll be tapering the thickness down to 1/16" as soon as I get the side profile set).
Would I be able to make a bow into more of a "Hill-style" longbow? That is, using a constant thickness and width taper and having a somewhat longer handle/riser section. If so, what dimensions would I use for my desired final product?
If it's not advisable, I understand. I just like HH bows and would like to try to replicate one without using "the F-word". I would be willing to make this more of an American flatbow or even a pyramid bow.
Thanks!!
-
I recently made a BBI, it is 62 inches n2n, 1 1/8th wide parallel out to 8 inches then tapers to 9/16 at the tips (could have went narrower) and it is #49 @26 think it had a 10 inch riser. I glued in a couple inches of reflex and still has an 1/8th after a few hundred arrows. Don't know if this helps. Good luck.
-
I saw that one and thought it turned out very well! I think your dimensions are more in the "flatbow" territory. If I don't end up making it as a Hill-style bow, I'll be using dimensions similar to yours... Maybe a touch longer, since I need to get 4 more inches of draw length!
-
Never had a hill style bow, what would your dimensions be? I know from others ipe does better with narrower designs. So long and thin would be good. Don't know about the 1/2 inch though.
-
Sounds totally reasonable. Pearly made a nice Hill style in Hickory and Ipe.
-
I can't see anything wrong with your plan. 72" is plenty long for a slightly longer handle, and the design is proven.
-
John, Hill bows taper continuously both in thickness and width. They also are fairly narrow. Modern glass HH bows tend to be around 1 1/8" wide. I'm struggling to find the specifics on the early bows Howard made that were laminated bamboo, but these were also similarly shaped. And I'm not too worried about the thickness of the ipe. It doesn't take a lot of ipe to make a stout bow! I also won't care if it ends up a little lighter.
PatM, thanks for bringing up that bow! I saw it a while ago, but I forgot about it. While using the good ol' Google, I came across a multi-lam hickory Hill bow by Ryoon, but Pearl Drum's bow did not appear. I'll go and find it again.
Thanks for the encouragement, Springbuck. If anything, I'll wing it by using the dimensions I've found on other sites describing the dimensions of fiberglass HH bows.
-
I think you have enough wood to make a good weight. Like you said, it doesn't take much with ipe. One thing to watch out for with a longer bow, make sure you get your tips nice and narrow. BBI bows can be prone to handshock because it's easy to leave the tips wider than they need to be without really realizing it. Especially on a 70+" longbow, you could get away with going very narrow, probably less than 3/8".
I have a set of ipe and boo in the rafters right now, so I'll be watching your progress for inspiration!
-
Sounds good Ty, keep us posted. Id like to try one eventually. I'm starting to like the narrow designs, an HH would be perfect.
-
I think I can post progress pics! I also found PD's bow and will use it as a reference. And I'll keep those tips narrow. I was thinking of ending around 3/8".
-
Early Hill bows would not be quite so rigid in dimensions. He used a lot of varied materials through the years before the final stage of glass.
You can see his bows quite clearly in old pics and video as well as some surviving bows.
-
I like the idea. I've always heard people talk about HH style bows, but never paid them much attention as I considered them to be FG bows.
Do you plan to do a backset, flat, or string follow bow? I believe most recreations are offered in those 3 choices. It should make for a sweet shooting bow either way.
If I were making it, which I think you just inspired me to give it a try, I would do 70", 1 3/16" wide straight taper to 3/8", ipe a little under 1/2" tapered 3/16" to the tips, 12" riser.
Let us know how you proceed!
-
Ben, I've heard string follow HH bows "shoot sweeter" (I think they mean not as much hand shock) and with a 30" draw, I don't necessarily need it to have a huge amount of backset. However, I really love the look of the straight as an arrow after being unstrung profile. My thought was to glue in 1-2" of reflex and see where she settles after I've shot her in. This is a bit of an experiment for me, so it'll be a good place to see where it ends up. As long as it ends between 1/2" on either side of being straight limbed, I'll be happy!
And Pat, I'll hunt down some pictures of Howard and try to see if I can garner anything from them.
-
A few years ago John Schulz did a limited run of bamboo Hill style bows that closely follow the Hill non-glass form. Google "John Schulz parting shot" and you will see some clear pics.
-
I have a similar draw length (29.5") and I find that I gain considerable set going from 28" to 30". I would do 3" reflex and hope for even profile but be happy however it turned out, but you may be better at tillering than me. At that length and style it will be a good shooter however it turns out.
-
If you are getting considerable set from 28-30" its because your bow design isn't adequate for 30". Adding more reflex is just lipstick on a pig. Just because a bow hols reflex doesn't mean a darn thing. Id rather have a bow start flat and follow the string 1.5" than to have a bow start with 5" of reflex and hold 2" of it.
-
Ty, Id stick around 1" wide, maybe 1.125" max. Keep as much depth to the ipe as you can. Thin the boo down as much as you safely can.
-
Pearl, so what dimensional differences would you make to this bow if you needed to go from a 28" to a 30" draw?
-
At least 2" more length, or another 1/4" of width, or both depending on how much set you are seeing.
-
Realistically 72" of Ipe left a bit wider can easily handle a 30 inch draw.
-
No doubt Pat. But not knowing what Bens bow stats were, I gave general advice to keep excessive set at bay.
-
That's what I wanted to know Pearl. Hopefully it helps Ty and others with long draws too.
-
Basically, do everything PearlDrums just said.
"I'll wing it by using the dimensions I've found on other sites describing the dimensions of fiberglass HH bows." It's hard to exactly copy fiberglass bows, but what you are looking for is very similar tiller and finished unstrung profile.
I might have suggested 1.25" wide, just because wood is wood, not F/G, but ipe is indeed fantastic wood for this, being both quite stiff and pretty darn elastic, so as mentioned, it doesn't take much to make a bow as far as thickness, etc.
I also have a long draw, which is a source of occasional frustration when harvesting staves. There are SO many that are perfect otherwise, but not QUITE long enough for 29" plus, or the higher draw weights, or whatever else. But, you either add width or thickness, and in this case, more length probably.
But, 72" is pretty long already, should be ok.
-
Pearl Drums, thanks for chiming in! Your HBI "Howard" looked amazing and if I can get one even close to looking like that, I'd be happy. After I get the side profile on the boo taken care of, I'll take it down to a "knife edge" and see how thick it is after that. I'll also go easy on the belly thickness (I'll see how the ipe is bending with just the width taper taken care of before I glue the bamboo to it).
-
Its easy Ty. I have no doubt you can make a perfect Hill style bow. I think I glued about 1.5" of reflex in and I believe the ol' fella held about 1/2". I haven't touched it in a long while and cant remember. The width taper starts about 10-12" off the fades, typically I would go out to mid limb then taper, but not with this type of bow. When it comes time to seal it up, Id suggest wiping a coat of Bullseye on first, then whatever else you want to finish the job. Ipe can be oily as hell, other times not so much. Every piece I've used was different in that regard. Ive used URAC and TB3 and never had issues with either. "Howard" was all TB3.