Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: gfugal on April 16, 2018, 10:29:20 am
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This spring I discovered some wormholes in some of my wood stash. Here's a picture of the culprit, I don't know if any of you could identify it.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KI6JejY2u1cEtNjbHTFcFvRMvilDnymaqLuPMKXee7O797CyiHBYu02sOlPjQvS85FJUeSYpHs3VIBo8ziSob-gPQDaFDef5yOiA_ZCufUlHn_bt-XTVm2xWG7I0KGuK-xYtzBlbcXHBYIqEfTNtb5pbyndu4t5HLGNew-wWS5rdpiohtxQn5aCWXN21YhtqEuK0B_brSGzGfbA8_qgR3iZJ3Fbfpd1Oq0DmIv7REYwljY-U3hCug_CR5MU5MUq19hEusoyqGFvg54kGbu4S3R44jdY8cDZT1KyYG8tvSBeJTHAqkWEGYCAANNn7pG31LIORORhjspF2fwX2QKqnDXeHPDhIosFKpq4hAhy9tRyFuTlb7v6byJ4qNisgL-BkJKBnqpeCyu-P0Y2582AilWx_KkJD44wlmLVf1AkQqHyPLbjtFZaIZrEousNY8CLUM2cvwcxqwgNTX5WNX_AN9vb8nnPXPlcIwYUMaQOmk2xUt3mWwFdXyj02KMlCPNsBRIxvxS7CRqr-brd18LtouWG40bEvgymNZDNQmoJc4HcvFFdU9L2FE3f1q9bISOIIezjkWdMktC-zZjaIY_GXGc_oi9VjH8HUcfSOIUXxuikv5aMfpVQ-O7yhJgiUErI6aKo7TEfHYsX-FY0t_qtsXkd-nLs1fWc7w=w674-h741-no)
I store my wood in the rafters of my parent's shed, but I think I was the one that introduced the bugs when I stored some juniper I harvested last spring that I failed to take the bark off of. I went over each piece and either discarded it, or took my drawknife to it and uncovered all tunnels to make sure no larvae remained. I recently got some more wood, and don't want this stuff to get bugs if they happen to still remain, since maybe they are in the shed now. I thought about doing a bug bomb but according to this site (https://www.powderpostbeetles.com/bug-bomb-powderpost-beetles.html) it might not be the most effective. It recommends Boracare instead which is an insecticide like substance you add to water and spray on the wood. However, I can't find anything less than a gallon's worth and it's close to $100 for that much. I don't think I need that much nor do I have $100 to drop on it. I noticed on Amazon's website that it lists under the description this information (Disodium Octaborate Tetrahydrate (Borate) 40%.How Bora Care Works Boracare contains an inorganic borate salt, soluble in water, with insecticidal. Wood Destroying Fungus, Termite Control and wood-destroying insects such as termites, carpenter). It got me wondering if I could just mix borax with water and get the same results, since borax is also made from borate salt? However, I'm not sure what the inseticidal is, and if it is essential for the boracare to work. I also don't know if the borate salts are processed in a certain way that borax is not. I am seeing that boric acid is what's commonly used in insecticides, whereas borax is I believe alkaline. Anybody know where I can find boracare in smaller quantities, or do you know of another product that will work?
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Found more information on how Boracare works.
Bora-Care contains an inorganic borate salt, soluble in water, with insecticidal and fungicidal properties effective against wood destroying organisms. A patented carrier system allows Bora-Care’s active ingredient to diffuse into wood. This system makes Bora-Care more effective than products designed to treat only the wood’s surface. It is particularly suited for seasoned or kiln dried wood.
Bora-Care provides double protection by acting as both a toxicant via ingestion and a deterrent to termite tubing. This means that termites are kept out of structures, preventing wood damage. When termites or other wood-destroying insects ingest Bora-Care, the borate active ingredient poisons the microorganisms in the insects’ digestive tracks that are needed to break down the cellulose in the wood. Essentially, it causes the insects to starve to death. Insects have shown no ability to develop resistance to borates.
Sounds like borax would work, as it's often used in home remedies in treating ants because it's poisonous when ingested. So if it was on the surface of the wood it would kill the bugs that tried to eat it. However, that is only if the bugs eat the surface, and if there is enough of it on it. Sounds like Boracare has an ingredient that allows the insecticide to penetrate into the wood, therefore, it's not just the surface that is protected but all the wood up to a certain depth. I could see this being essential at getting rid of borers that are already there, but maybe borax would work fine as a preventative measure. Or maybe not, since if they can get past the outer surface they could just eat the wood underneath. PLus I don't know how to mix borax so it stays coated on the wood. Too thin, and it might not be concentrated enough, or may run off. Maybe some of you have worked in the inseticide business, maybe I should just find someone who does, or go to a shop and ask there.
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Could it be a wood borer wasp larvae? Either way, shellac the back and you should be ok
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https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?233066-Home-made-bora-care-amp-timbor
I found this form that has a DIY make your own Bora-Care. Sounds simple and much cheaper. I think I might try this.
Update*1
Seems like the expensive ingredient is the glycol which is hard to obtain in smaller quantities (same dilemma as before). It would be cheaper per oz, but I would still end up with a lot, and pay more upfront. Unless someone knows of a glycol that you can get for cheaper and in smaller quantities. Antifreeze might have been an option, but he recommends against it since it doesn't penetrate the wood as well (which is the whole purpose of the glycol) as well as takes several days to dry.
Update*2
I found Propylene-Glycol on Walmart's website (not at most locations). It is $20 for half a gallon and $30 for a gallon with free shipping to your local store. So if I did make it with boric acid, borax, and glycol, it would be considerably cheaper than to buy Bora-Care (maybe $40 a gallon vs $100). Although $40 is still a lot, it would last a very long time cause I don't see myself using more than a diluted pint spray bottle at a time (50% bora-care 50% water, so only a cup of Bora-care per use).
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Good protein source!
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Could it be a wood borer wasp larvae? Either way, shellac the back and you should be ok
Bora-Care may only necessary if you have an active infestation in wood you want to save. But if you are only taking preventative measure maybe only a coating will suffice? From what I'm reading shellac is a plastic-like resin produced by insects. It forms a hard waxy protective coating. Are the bugs just unable/uninterested in eating through this coating, or is it poisonous to them? I wonder if regular polyurethane spay would work just as well, or even other sealants people use to seal the ends of wood like titebond, or latex paint, but wouldn't that slow the drying process significantly? Shellac is about $8 for a spray can, but probably cheaper if you get the liquid version, or even cheaper as flakes. I wonder if a coating of liquid borax and boric acid would be cheaper to make.
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Good protein source!
:o haha no way! I Just ended up squishing the two or three I found.
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One more update (sorry I'm posting a lot). Bora-care penetrates into the wood because of the glycol. This makes it useful for killing borers that are already inside the wood that won't be affected by fog spray or other surface insecticides. Due to its penetrative nature, you may be able to use it on wood that still has bark on killing any larvae or eggs that may be under the bark (maybe it depends on the tree and whether it's bark is watertight). It's worth a try. If it works you could leave the bark on your wood so as to prevent rapid drying and getting checks. I think I might try this in the future and see.
If you don't need to kill borers in infested wood, but only want to prevent it does sound like a mix up without the glycol would suffice to reduce the cost drastically. There is a recipe on the link I posted earlier. This formula is essentially a homemade version of the product Timbore. Since I got rid of the already infested wood, I think I will do this rout and put this cheap protective borate salt coating, since I would want to save the more expensive shellac or polyurethane spray for finishes.
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Good protein source!
:o haha no way! I Just ended up squishing the two or three I found.
roasted is traditional, but the kids like them better fried in butter
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Someone is fan of Bear Grylls :D
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Grilled bear?, not so much. you have to be careful it it cooked well. I prefer well done in a stew.
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The eggs of these critters are laid in the bark by the parent. When the egg hatches the bore begins to eat.Generally if the bark is removed the bores don't attack the wood.
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Just strip the bark and seal the back before you store it, lot of trouble but is the only safe way to be sure. The eggs are usually in the bark when cut and when they hatch they do there thing. I have tried lots of things over the years and the only sure way is take off the bark and seal. Good luck, nothing worse than wait a year for wood to dry and season and find worms in it. :( The up side is if you take the time at the start it will dry quicker. ;)
Pappy
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There is a cheaper product called Timbore, essentially water and boric acid but does the same thing as Boracare but doesn't penetrate as well.
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There is a cheaper product called Timbore, essentially water and boric acid but does the same thing as Boracare but doesn't penetrate as well.
Yeah, I just figured that out haha. Like you said it's essentially the same thing as Boracare, but without the Glycol, so it doesn't penetrate as deep. You can buy it for relatively cheap, But that site also gave a recipe. I'm going to make it by combining Roach Away and Borax in the proportions it gives. Super cheap. I still might make Boracare one day to see if it penetrates through the bark and kills the eggs when they hatch, just out of curiosity (considering I already debarked all my stuff anyway).
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Good protein source!
:o haha no way! I Just ended up squishing the two or three I found.
Osage Outlaw's got a priceless picture he might be willing to share. ;)
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I think it was lost in the photobucket mess.
At the Classic a few years back I found a borer in a stave I was working on. I roasted it over the coals for a few seconds and then ate it. It wasn't bad. I figured it was eating my bow wood so I would return the favor.
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Its a Beetle larva. Flat head borer(metallic wood borer family) or looks to me more like a round head borer larva(long horned borer family). Google and you can find pictures of the adults of species in these families.
I had some hickory with the bark still on this spring, in the rafters of a pole barn. One day I came in and it was snowing at 70 degrees. When I stopped to figure out what was going on I could hear the chewing from 15 feet away. By that time wood was too far gone to keep so I burned it. Not sure how they taste tho :)
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So, I live near you, of course. That grub you posted is the BIG borer I mentioned. Usually found under 5he bark and in first ring or two of sapwood. These guys, and also the beetle borer (bronze birch bkrer, locust borer, mulberry borer, etc. ) types come to us as eggs under the bark. Removing bark and sealing with shellac will prevent these guys.
Terrible protein source if you ask me, but not half bad icefishing bait.
The other issue is those little tiny ones, which I assume are the powder post beetles. I have had them eat right through every type of finish, and removing bark won't prevent them.
They seem to like dry wood that has been sitting awhile. Heat treating white wood seems to invite them in, it's almost like they prefer it. I have had elm sit for two years with no issues, heat treat and straighten it (which would kill eggs and any existing larvae) and had it riddled with these small bores a month later. They seem to love to eat winter rings, as I have had them literally delaminated a bow for me before, between thick growth rings. Just popped in half. They also bore straight down into the face of prepped staves, leaving small holes like a pencil lead size.
The second kind is the type that comes in waves and suddenly a lot of my wood in unusable. They never touch black or yellow locust heartwood, but LOVE my plum, mulberry, elm, and ash.
If you can find a way to make them go away forever, I'll thank you.
Also, you seem up on this stuff, but ALWAYS be careful mixing chemicals. Aside from the active ingredients, the additives and stuff might give unexpected results.
I mention this because I have seen a good dozen people over the years come in to our ER having mixed various household chemicals and being overcome by fumes. One lady actually mixed bleach and ammonia while trying to kill ants.