Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Badger on July 09, 2018, 01:57:41 pm
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I was looking at some published literature from about 20 years ago on how much yardage you could expect from a self bow. It said a straight bow with 1" of set should hit about 150 yards, with a little reflex 160 yards and a recurve not more than 170 yards shooting 10 grains per pound. I am curious how this will compare to the yardages you guys achieve. It should be interesting.
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I bet we see a couple 170s
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What are the rules? I hadn't given it much thought but Aarons trophy's are cool.
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I can't wait to see how far everyone shoots. Steve and Aaron both know that when some guys get online and post how their new selfbow is shooting way over 200 yards, it's always a little hard to believe. :) This is their chance to show the world! (SH)
The rules are posted here under the events threads and then find the mojam thread...post 91 :OK
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Outlaw, bow will be measured at 28" draw and arrows should way 10 grains per pound. There will be some loaner arrows on hand if you just want to give it a shot. We will weigh your bow and give you the right arrows to shoot. They may not be as good as the custom arrows you would make yourself but they will get you pretty close. Its all fun, no charge to shoot.
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Steve, I only have a 27" draw and was planning on shooting just that. The arrows I'm bringing measure exactly 27" from the base of the point to the throat of the string nock. These are permitted under the rules correct? Also this means that my bow's weight will be measured at 27" draw as long as no longer arrows are shot from my bow, right?
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Clint, I bet you still got time to throw some arrows together that match one of your bows. Just saying ;)
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Man wish I was going. Do you have to shoot broadheads? Any rules on points? Might have to play by myself here at home.😢
Bjrogg
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Clint, I bet you still got time to throw some arrows together that match one of your bows. Just saying ;)
Yeah, but how's he going to get 28" draw lol
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202-205-203-207-190-196 could be some shots. Just guessing. But I think 218 will win it. How's that for going out on a limb! I'm in see y'all there. Arron I am pretty sure your right on the 27" draw. 50@27 equals 500 gr. Arrow 27" back of point to throat of knock. That's the way I read the rules. Arvin
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That's what I was thinking, bubby. ;)
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I got stakes every 5 yards starting at 170 made out up to 235 yards.
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I'd be surprised if nobody got over 200.
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My personal challenge is to demonstrate that a hunting bow not streamlined for speed can hit 200 yards. I plan to bring a stack maybe 8 bows or so, all plain Jane crude with conservative simple designs. I wouldn't be surprised if someone hit 235 with a composite recurve. I am hoping I hit 210 with a few shots. You get enough arrows flying anything can happen.
Aaron, yes you have it right. Your bow will be measured to your longest arrow.
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150 yards then, 200 yards now without heat treatening or steambending - thatīs a huge improvement!
What are the most important reasons for this improvement in your opinion? ... is it the use of Fast Flight strings? Narrower tips? (even though I recently read, that very light tips are overestimated for 10 ggp). Or the ways bows are tillered (mass formula or no set tillering)?
Whatīs the most important reason in your opinion?
greetings, lonbow
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I think the biggest reason is underestimation in the first place. Then we have all the same things you mentioned giving some slight improvements. More people who know what they are doing will give much higher results. I think this is the case now, just a lot more qualified folks. .
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Lonbow for me. When I started 2004 I built the slowest shockiest bow of the day. I was trying to hit 150 yds. With a 50# bow. Now I hit 200 yds on occasion. Just what you said. Chasing mass off the outer limbs , trashing B50 for D97, straightening, and heat temper. But I am glad I improved my bows. Arvin
Oh and forums like this . Sharing info. Arvin
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I was looking at some published literature from about 20 years ago on how much yardage you could expect from a self bow. It said a straight bow with 1" of set should hit about 150 yards, with a little reflex 160 yards and a recurve not more than 170 yards shooting 10 grains per pound. I am curious how this will compare to the yardages you guys achieve. It should be interesting.
I think the main difference will come from shooting style. I'm pretty sure that they were not using a flight shooting release back then
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I was looking at some published literature from about 20 years ago on how much yardage you could expect from a self bow. It said a straight bow with 1" of set should hit about 150 yards, with a little reflex 160 yards and a recurve not more than 170 yards shooting 10 grains per pound. I am curious how this will compare to the yardages you guys achieve. It should be interesting.
I think the main difference will come from shooting style. I'm pretty sure that they were not using a flight shooting release back then
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Marc please explain more detail. In primitive today do we not use fingers, tap, glove?
Arvin
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Good point Mark, one year at Bonneville a first time shooter showed up and beat me by a few feet for a new broadhead record. He actually copied my shooting style. The guy that built his bow told him to copy me. He practiced the release for a couple of days and it made a big difference. I think it might be a good idea at this flight shoot to demonstrate the simple method for anyone interested. It just amounts to pulling through your release. You can loose 20 or more yards with a static release.
My biggest curiosity would be how much difference does it make shooting at sea level as opposed to the 4,000 ft we shoot at Bonneville Salt Flats. I have head people say about 10% but my experience tells me almost no difference.
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I did not see a difference because of elevation. I am curious about that release though. Do you short draw often Steve. Arvin
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Arvin, I release the second my broadhead makes contact with the bow and my hand never stops pulling back. I get off the string quickly.
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I can see me pulling the string out of the arrow with my lack of coordination :-[ :-[
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Me to D.C.! Have to practice on old bow that you don't mind dry firing. Arvin
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The motion itself is not a fast motion, you can be slow and deliberate as long as you pull your hand off the string instead of just opening up your fingers and letting it slide off.
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My biggest curiosity would be how much difference does it make shooting at sea level as opposed to the 4,000 ft we shoot at Bonneville Salt Flats. I have head people say about 10% but my experience tells me almost no difference.
Don't know about the effects of elevation but I'd wonder about the effect of the difference in humidity..?
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My biggest curiosity would be how much difference does it make shooting at sea level as opposed to the 4,000 ft we shoot at Bonneville Salt Flats. I have head people say about 10% but my experience tells me almost no difference.
Don't know about the effects of elevation but I'd wonder about the effect of the difference in humidity..?
From what i understand arrows carry better in moist air, not sure why, it would seem the opposite.
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My biggest curiosity would be how much difference does it make shooting at sea level as opposed to the 4,000 ft we shoot at Bonneville Salt Flats. I have head people say about 10% but my experience tells me almost no difference.
Don't know about the effects of elevation but I'd wonder about the effect of the difference in humidity..?
From what i understand arrows carry better in moist air, not sure why, it would seem the opposite.
Huh, I did not know that. Then you guys will do fine down there by the tracks.
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We are still not sure what to base the award certificates on. 170 yards is a good shot for a self bow. 200 yards is world class, most of the shots at the salt flats are well under 200 yards that I have seen. I am thinking straight self bows 170 yards+ recurve self bows 180+ and composite bows 180 for straight and 190 for some curves. The committee will discuss this after a couple of days of shooting.. Never been done before so we are kind of shooting from the hip here.
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Related but unrelated. Does the park have any RV dump - fill stations? If I'm there for a week I might need to dump fill once. You know how those Texans have plenty to process! :-) Arvin
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We are still not sure what to base the award certificates on. 170 yards is a good shot for a self bow. 200 yards is world class, most of the shots at the salt flats are well under 200 yards that I have seen. I am thinking straight self bows 170 yards+ recurve self bows 180+ and composite bows 180 for straight and 190 for some curves. The committee will discuss this after a couple of days of shooting.. Never been done before so we are kind of shooting from the hip here.
I'm realling looking forward to the results
..Steve. Please post any and all info on the results. Wish I could make it this year. I might have a bow or two that could compete....
Thanking you in advance for posting the results..
DBar
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Ooohh, Arvin! Body slam! >:D (lol)!
Steve, I for one would like to see/learn the release technique! Might help my shooting in general! I'm not even sure of the best angle for release in flight shooting. (SH)
See you all next week!
Hawkdancer
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the flight shoot was crazy fun and there were some great shots made...4 composite bows and 5 selfbows made shots over 200 yards! I even shot one of the early MoJam selfbows made by Joe Mattingly and the old black locust bow shot 186 yards... it was amazing to see a 20 year old selfbow that is still slightly reflexed and has tiny tips...
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202-205-203-207-190-196 could be some shots. Just guessing. But I think 218 will win it. How's that for going out on a limb! I'm in see y'all there. Arron I am pretty sure your right on the 27" draw. 50@27 equals 500 gr. Arrow 27" back of point to throat of knock. That's the way I read the rules. Arvin
Arvin, remind me to never bet against you! The bow you gave me, you shot 202, 204, i shot 196 with my bow, and i dont recall the winning shot but i vet you do!
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Congratulations to the winners, Bob and Arvin". That was an experience. I will have to make up a set of flight arrows and get out to the grasslands to practice! There were a lot of surprising shots made! It will be interesting to see the results by bow weight.
Hawkdancer
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Well i shot two pyramid bows. One was 62.8# @28 with 625 gr arrow 217.5 was the distance within 10-12 inches. The other bow was 42.8 @28 with 450 gr. arrow 217 yds was the distance. So I guess I got better distance with the heavier gr. per pound. The 62 # bow took some set the 42# bow took almost none. The set could have made the difference. Interesting how close the two bows were. Arvin
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I imagine in time Steve will post the results of the shoot.It'll take a little time.Many did not state their distance.Steve could correct me here.A sneak preview here from what I remember for myself.I shot 6 of my bows there.4 self and 2 composites.Self bows made of 2 osage/KCT/and winged elm.All my usual parallel width lever tipped type bows.All well seasoned shot in bows with 1000's of shots through them.Anywhere from 2 to 4 years old.I did not make a special new bow for the event.Next year I more than likely will.These shot from 195 to 203+ yds yet.
The composites were made of sinew/hickory/and horn.Made some time ago.One composite shot around 205+ yds.The other shot 214 yds and 2'.The later bow I've shot better with but not at this event anyway.All bows ranged in poundage from 44 pounds to 47 pounds.
I made 18 barreled and tapered broadhead DF arrows spined appropriately ranging from 455 grains to 477 grains and spined the same and used them according to match the poundage of the bow at 28" to be 10 gpp when shot.
A number [I don't know how many exactly] of fellas' bows highlighted here shot over 200 yds and then some into the teens like Arvins',Steves'Scotts',and Aarons' bows with their self bows that I recall.Aarons' bow was a hickory and the rest osage.All bows made just prior to the flight shoot for this purpose.Bobs' figures are probably right too on those over 200 yds.Steve says that's world class shooting according to what's shot at the salt flats or at least a higher number of participation of shooters anyway.
A 180 to 190 yd shot is still a heck of a shot too.There's a lot of excellent bow makers out there.It was fun seeing the anticipation of the shooters after shooting.Many had different releases which could make a difference in distance also.
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Ed, when I got back home the bottom had fallen out of my little world. A few more days I should be able to get back on this. In the mean time could everyone who shot 190 plus yards please send me a message or e email with the particulars about their bows. Most of it I have memorized but I know I would leave someone out. The registration sheets were not filled out in most cases but as I said I do remember most all of the long shots.
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Very cool stuff!was there a bow design in particular that seemed to have a slight edge?those are very good results bowed from bows that where not exactly fresh!
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Steve....Sorry to hear that.That's not exactly what you need right now.
bushboy....that's rather hard to say until all the results and info is stated.
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Very cool stuff!was there a bow design in particular that seemed to have a slight edge?those are very good results bowed from bows that where not exactly fresh!
I shot a bow by Bob Barns that was 11 years old and got 211 yards. He uses the bow all the time.
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Very cool report particularly hearing about the well shot in bows doing so well, that impresses me because well shot in bows that performs like listed are truly a mark of the men that made them and in the spirt of durable hunting bows congrats to the winners ! I'm realy going to try to make it next year !
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Steve has always stressed this point about execution of design and durability with any kind of wood used.Backed bows shot broken in seem to hold up better over time not being fresh more so than self bows.Arvin was a big help in the process here setting and staking up the range.Another mathametcian teacher fella was helpful figuring shooters shots' distance also.Seems we all had to go back to school to get the distances close to right....lol.Help did occur for us and are grateful for that.
I watched Bob shoot at the range at night.A deer at 20 yards is in trouble in his area.I think I might loose my shorts shooting money tic tac toe against him,but it's only money right???
Just some things to mention here that stuck out in my mind too during the event.