Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: simson on August 07, 2018, 09:52:36 am

Title: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: simson on August 07, 2018, 09:52:36 am
dw/dl:   41#/22”
ntn:    44”
bh:    4Ό”
reflexn:   1½”

mass:   244 gram
max. width: 1⅛”

06”:   04,8
08”:   09,2   (+4,4)
10”:   13,2   (+4,0)
12”:   17,2   (+4,0)
14”:   21,4   (+4,2)
16”:   25,8   (+4,4)
18”:   30,5   (+4,7)
20”:   35,6   (+5,1)
22”:   41,0   (+5,4)

This bow is heat corrected for string alignment and untwisting (particularly). It got an additional set back handle, I started with 2” and now after shot it still holds 1Ό”.
After roughing out the stave was fumed for three days (back was prepped with osage soup). A slight sanding after the fuming process brought out an appearance like bark.
The belly got an additional iron-chloride staining after the tillering, and the combo of stain fuming and sanding brought a more or less olive tone.

A knot hole from a dead little branch in the lower tip was used as an unique looking string fixing (string has an ear here too). The upper tip is a common triangular shaped pin nock.

The handle got a glued on fish skin from atlantic cod.

How the string is mounted at the knot hole is here: http://primitive-bows.com/how-to-use-a-knot-hole-in-a-tip/

How I did the fish skin handle is here: http://primitive-bows.com/how-to-make-a-fishskin-handle/



(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-1-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-2-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-3-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-4-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-5-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-6-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-7-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-8-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-9-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-10-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-11-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-12-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-13-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-14-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-15-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-16-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-17-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-18-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-19-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-20-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-21-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-23-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-24-von-25.jpg)

(http://primitive-bows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/104.a-Osage-plains-fumed-fishskin-25-von-25.jpg)

Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Aaron H on August 07, 2018, 10:33:21 am
Nice work Simon.  Your finishing technique on this one gives a lot of depth, very neat fish skin grip too.
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on August 07, 2018, 10:52:15 am
That hole for the string loop is clever, one less hassle to deal with.
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: bjrogg on August 07, 2018, 11:03:42 am
Awesome bow Simson,that is a beautiful bend, finish and pictures.
Thanks so much for sharing
Bjrogg
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: upstatenybowyer on August 07, 2018, 12:16:38 pm
I really love the bend on this one Simson. Beautiful work as always.
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: timmyd on August 07, 2018, 02:56:11 pm
just stunning. I grew up immersing my childhood mind with Indian stories and lore. I've always wanted a replica bow and plains quiver. this is on my bucket list to build. very well done sir.
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: burchett.donald on August 07, 2018, 02:59:49 pm
  Nice shorty Simson...Excellent bend and looks very balanced which is so critical on these short bows...
                                                                                                                                                 Don
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Stixnstones on August 07, 2018, 03:15:09 pm
Very cool lil bow..that knothole string keeper is perfect.
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Parnell on August 07, 2018, 04:32:58 pm
What’ll you think of next...clever is right.  Very interesting nocking and beautiful bend, but I think my favorite part is the color work, especially the cod skin.
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Danzn Bar on August 07, 2018, 05:37:45 pm
One word...………..Amazing!!
DBar
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Danzn Bar on August 07, 2018, 05:39:40 pm
You are a master of your craft...…
DBar
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Danzn Bar on August 07, 2018, 05:44:38 pm
If I can make a bow that looks as good as yours and preforms well for years.....that is my goal.
Thanks for the inspiration...….
DBar
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: penderbender on August 07, 2018, 06:27:56 pm
That looks great Simson! I love making and shooting the shortys. Cod skin is a great touch as well. Cheers- Brendan
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Rākau on August 07, 2018, 06:52:42 pm
Holy smokes that is beautiful
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: M2A on August 07, 2018, 10:17:48 pm
Wonderful finish on that top shelf bow. Thanks for sharing. Mike
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Del the cat on August 08, 2018, 02:00:08 am
Top class work as always :)
Del
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: leonwood on August 08, 2018, 05:30:53 am
Lovely little bow Simon! The combination of fuming and the soup works really well, nice warm tones in the wood. Beautiful tiller and nice detail with that knot hole!
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: dolgima on August 08, 2018, 04:40:27 pm
Great bow !!
I have a question. By applying osage soup on the back of the bow, it adds more tannin on the back and makes darker color after fuming ?  soup itself also works like wood stain (?) or dye ?
is there any other wood that can be used as dye like osage orange ?  maybe black locust ?

Can I use persimmon tannin as well ?  because in my country it is used for traditional dye for fabric
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: simson on August 09, 2018, 08:48:02 am
Thanks fellers! Glad you like that little stick.

Great bow !!
I have a question. By applying osage soup on the back of the bow, it adds more tannin on the back and makes darker color after fuming ?  soup itself also works like wood stain (?) or dye ?
is there any other wood that can be used as dye like osage orange ?  maybe black locust ?

Can I use persimmon tannin as well ?  because in my country it is used for traditional dye for fabric

Yep, the osage soup makes a bow look older within some minutes (even without fuming) and the tannin makes the color darker or better let the color get quicker dark in the fuming process. I've never used other woods for making a soup like osage, but I'm sure it can. Possible woods are mulberry, black locust or oak - all these woods have a good content of tannin acids.
I have no access to persimmon, so I cannot say if it works. Just try it out and you will see, I'm interested what you get and pretty sure some others also.
Tip: When you will store soup in stock, add some alcohol. Otherwise the thing will be affected by funguns soon.

Btw.: I'm interested what you said about the persimmon dye for fabric. Do you have some info or link?
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Thunderlizard on August 09, 2018, 09:39:06 am
Is it ill advised to drill a hole on a stave without a knot? Does the fact that yours is from a knot make it stronger than if it were drilled in a clean stave? Beautiful work!
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: simson on August 10, 2018, 02:19:47 am
Lizard,
I'm pretty sure it can be done, in that manner I did. As the string (around the tips) prevent the wood from splitting. The horizontal string at the belly prevent the cutting in. Drill a hole with a diameter just to fit the string, sand out carefully and round the edges of the hole.

I wouldn't do it with soft wood like yew, eastern red cedar, juniper.

edit:
Just remember, I have seen African bows (long bows, not short San bows) with a drilled hole in one tip. But the string is only secured by a big knot on the back.
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Hawkdancer on August 10, 2018, 12:17:19 pm
Real nice little bow!  Do you make the soup by just boiling chips and sawdust?  Haven't heard that phrase or technique before. What do you mean by fuming, haven't heard that before, either.  But I'm still learning this bow making stuff.  Thanks,
Hawkdancer
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: dolgima on August 10, 2018, 02:27:54 pm
Thanks for reply
I don't know much about persimmon dye. we use specific species which contain much more tannin than sweet persimmon. Because of high content of tannin it taste bitter. We harvest when it's green before it ripe for more tannin.  Then crush or grind persimmon and extract juice of it. The juice color is green but soak fabric in the juice and dry under the sun makes color orange. After drying, we sprinkle some water on fabric. By repeating this procedure the color gets darker. Instead of using juice immediately, if we ferment green juice about 1-2 years, green color juice became brown. I heard that for fermentation, we put some kind of yeast.

This dyeing method make fabric stiff because of tannin. I think there is many natural dyeing method that using fruit or plant which contain tannin. And by using mordant we can get different colors

I'm Korean  and in Korea we  use normally it for dyeing cloth but I saw on the internet that Japanese uses it like wood stain.

These are Japanese videos so I don't know what they are saying...
https://youtu.be/ltXshxYcmOk
https://youtu.be/y6NU0GU7jXM

In Japanese it is called kakishibu  you can find some informations and even products on the internet site.

http://www.kakishibu.com/en/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=1

In this site you can find some informations in English and  they sell persimmon juice. I think there is fundamentally not much difference between osage soup and persimmon juice in terms of using tannin.
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: selfbow joe on August 10, 2018, 09:25:44 pm
Wow nice work
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on August 10, 2018, 11:23:02 pm
Gorgeous
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: simson on August 11, 2018, 05:53:28 am
Real nice little bow!  Do you make the soup by just boiling chips and sawdust?  Haven't heard that phrase or technique before. What do you mean by fuming, haven't heard that before, either.  But I'm still learning this bow making stuff.  Thanks,
Hawkdancer

Hawk, you're on the right track -  osage soup is made by boiling osage saw dust in a bit of water. Use the solution with some alcohol (prevents fungus affection). You can make a strong dye from this stuff, aging osage in minutes is no problem.
Here is some info about fuming: http://primitive-bows.com/fuming-experiments/



Dolgima: Thanks for the interesting info about Khaki.
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: George Tsoukalas on August 11, 2018, 09:22:58 pm
Outstanding! Came out great! Jawge
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Hans H on August 12, 2018, 02:50:34 pm
hello Simon,
I`m always impressed when I see your craftmanship!

very nice shorty

Hans
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Halfbow on August 13, 2018, 06:44:15 pm
I love this bow! Great work. I'm going to have to look in to that osage soup.
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: simk on August 14, 2018, 08:15:33 am
Stunning work again Simson! Why do some of your bows have numbers and some don't? Cheers
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Bayou Ben on August 14, 2018, 10:00:38 am
That's one heck of a bow.  Beauty in its simplest form.  Always shocked at how thin/small your handles turn out.  Never tried a bendy, but I imagine it's quite an art to make sure that area isn't bending too much.  Inspiring work.   
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: simson on August 14, 2018, 10:31:32 am
Stunning work again Simson! Why do some of your bows have numbers and some don't? Cheers

All my bows here and on my website have numbers, just to make it easier to find. besides are a lot more bows which are not yet or never posted.
I like more to build bows than to make pics, texting, computing and so on ...

That's one heck of a bow.  Beauty in its simplest form.  Always shocked at how thin/small your handles turn out.  Never tried a bendy, but I imagine it's quite an art to make sure that area isn't bending too much.  Inspiring work.   

Ben, let the handle and fade area first stiff  -  do that in the end stadium of tillering. Let it not so much bend than the entire limb, or in other words don't go for the exact circle, more for a shallow ellipse. This prevents hand shock.


Thanks guys for your nice comments and compliments - it's only a little stick ...
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: loefflerchuck on August 14, 2018, 08:13:14 pm
Not sure we can call this a plains style bow with all the Simson style in this bow ;).  Always love to see your work of creative efficiency.
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: ntvbowyer1969 on August 16, 2018, 09:11:22 am
Great short bow! Great bend,color, and i am liking that hole tip. The tiller is spot on.
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: sieddy on August 19, 2018, 06:02:45 am
Absolute poetry Simon.  :)
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: selfbow joe on August 19, 2018, 08:34:59 am
Nice work
Title: Re: Osage plains bow (No.104)
Post by: Thunderlizard on September 11, 2018, 10:23:29 am
Lizard,
I'm pretty sure it can be done, in that manner I did. As the string (around the tips) prevent the wood from splitting. The horizontal string at the belly prevent the cutting in. Drill a hole with a diameter just to fit the string, sand out carefully and round the edges of the hole.

I wouldn't do it with soft wood like yew, eastern red cedar, juniper.

edit:
Just remember, I have seen African bows (long bows, not short San bows) with a drilled hole in one tip. But the string is only secured by a big knot on the back.


Just got back to this after looking at BOTM. Thanks for the response, and as always, for sharing your knowledge and experience as bowyer!