Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: half eye on September 09, 2018, 10:06:48 am
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Thanks to my friends I have many bows to hunt with, and at this age ya never know how many more hunts ya got left. I am building a set that is simple (minimalist, practical, and a homage to the Native American Culture).
The bow is tillered out, and a knife nearly done, thought maybe some of you would like to see it all come together. Here is what we are going for.
1. 48ntn osage scrap 5 curve between 65-70# @ 25, sinew backed with timber rattler, and a small grip wrap of American alligator, and a rawhide string.
2. Simple coon arrow quiver, with rawhide cordage shoulder strap and 2 rawhide cordage tie-downs for the bow,
3. Flint knife with antler handle (perhaps a bark sheath, maybe rawhide)
4. copies of the various war arrows I am familiar with such as turtle claw, splinter head, and some stone tip hunting arrows.
When it is done it will be going to it's "forever home" out in South Dakota. This is going to be all natural materials, and as much hand work as I can muster up. Hope you like the idea of coming along on the ride. By the way the title is Oglala Sioux for "old man's last bow. If your not up on your Sioux here it is in Norther Ute...."Utch mahs nah-nah-putch".... all comes out to my last hunting bow.
Here are some teaser pics of all the necessary "makins". some of you may not know that I tiller out my bows over my knee that is why my "tillered" stick has no string knocks at this point.
rich
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Rich have enjoyed seeing your projects over the years.always envied the scalloped bows you make.
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Simple hunting bow hehe! ??? ??? ???
I sure these weapons will come out in highest quality.
And yes, I'm curious and thankful if you post some of your working steps. You always was one of the wise masters when it comes to short bows.
Oh, and do not say the last bow - we all have to learn a lot from you.
Good, you post again your work.
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Can't wait to see the finished kit :)
Del
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Rich,
I for one know you do all your tillering in hand and by your knee...I have a picture of a friend of mine I would like to share, hope you don't mind...Can't wait to see this build...I must say that I hope it is not your last Sir...
Don
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This is exciting! Looking forward to this.
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I'm next on the list for a set
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Glads to see you post again and looking forward to seeing your process. I have a few of your bows and an arrow you made that are in a place of honor in my collection. :OK 8)
On a side note, there is enough snake skin from that rattler for at lease 2 bows. That is one of the nice things about timber rattlers. They even give you a center line to divide it.
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Look forward to seeing what comes of this
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I know this will be special!
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Watchin close..takin notes...keep it comin Rich!
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Great to see some of your work. I look forward to seeing it all finished up. Your post and Don's coyote hide set remind me of why I love this forum. It is like a window to the past to look at the creations that get posted here.
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Looks great! I'm still dealing with the 65#. Most impressive. Jawge
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Thank you all for the kind comments, much appreciated. George...ya notice that I said the bow is going away....thats because there is no way in hell this old man can draw and shoot a 65 or 70 pound bow. :o But my friend Oglala Bowyer shoots them regularly and likes 'em heavy. Will be getting to the sinew job tomorrow.
Thanks agin,
rich
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Beautiful work all around!tiller looks spot on already!nice kit! On the go!
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True beauty in the works my friend. I have few friends, but I’m blessed by those I call friends. I can’t wait to see more of the pics
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This is going to be a good ride!
Patrick
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Nice,,,,,,I miss you brother. Jeffw
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I'm tuned in, and wishing you all the best with your project and many more hunting seasons to come. )P(
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Looking forward to seeing more. That looks like an interesting project. I'm sure the outcome will be amazing. I appreciate you sharing with us.
That looks like a Carolina Rattler to me. I think I have his brother.
Steve
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Rich is that the snake skin I sent you? Can't wait to see how it turns out.
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Thank you all for the very nice comments.
NC....you nailed it about the skin, it is in fact a big ole fat Carolina cane break .
Trapper....Rob that rattler you sent me, went into making a couple of very fine holsters for a couple of 1887 & 1891 top-breaks ...check the pics out and hope you approve.
Thanks again fellas I'm spreading glue today should have pics tonight.
rich
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I'm sorry but you're completely off with your Oglala
Translation is "Old man with bruised knee bow " (lol) (lol) (lol)
I'm following you Bruised Knee! keep scraping sticks :OK
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Well now Mr. Gliss, my title (including spelling) came directly from an actual living Oglala. The problem with "translators" they are not able to speak ANY of the Native American tongues, after all the best minds available from Germany and Japan couldn't do anything with Native code talkers. So I am going to stick with my Oglala friend, you can stick with your computer.
rich
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No no please dont blame me. You got my complete and sincere apologies. It was a joke!
I love your bendy bows and sincerely hope to keep seing you make bow and share your knowledge
the oglala joke was referred at your habit to tiller bow on your knee
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Rich those holsters are beautiful.
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I'm really liking the shape of the bow you got there. And I love that you tiller over your knee. Reading post like this makes me realize how much I have yet to learn!
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Got the sinew on today and ready for it's 10 day dry period. Only seven pics so here is how I do this part.
1. I lightly scuff the back of the bow (dry) and then rub the bow's back down with a wet finger. I check this in the "glare line" of the overhead light. I'm looking to see that the surface of the back has accepted a complete even water stain ( if the water sticks then so will the hide glue.
2. I use my finger to apply a good coat of hide glue and cover the back with a fairly heavy coat....let that jell up till it wont stick to your fingers.
3. I use backstrap sinew on my bows. The ones you see on the towel in front of the box Are the ones that I soaked until good and soft, and then wiped off any excess water. I then take a piece of sinew and completely submerge it in the hide glue and as you remove it I use my thumb and finger to wipe off the excess.
4. I lay these back straps starting at the middle of the bow and going toward the tips. Usually there will be six pieces used. Three in the first layer then 2 then one. Once the first layer is on it gets another "good coat" of glue over it, then repeat for subsequent layers.
5. I put the bow up for about an hour or so untill the sinew has jelled up (jelled to the touch)
6. Next step is to wrap the bow with "bandages" made from torn bed sheets. Start in the middle and wrap like a barber pole out toward the tip and pull it tight, then come back down the same limd wrapping in the opposite direction. I let this sit wrapped up for 5-6 hours
7. I now very carefully un-wrap the bandages to see if everything is laying down well and everything looks well bonded to shape. If you are not satisfied at this point, remove the still wet sinew, wash it, and start over.
The last pic is after the bandages come off....the small white threads are NOT stuck to the bow. I just leave them untill the sinew is starting to dry well and then carefully unwind the "ravels.
That it set aside for 10 days in a dry room.
Heres the pics...any? please ask.
rich
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rest of the pics
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Gliss, my apologies to you sir...hate computers ....I miss-understood your intent so I apologize to you sir.
Trapper, I am very glad you approve of the use, the old girls sure do like their new homes.
Bayou, nothin special going on here, just the way I do things, hope it inspires some more folks to go natural too.
rich
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@half-eye
I look on this with fascination. Go on with this impressive building :)
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Nice job on the sinew Rich...Looks smooth and even...
Don
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You make it look easy rich. Also I found out what you mean by it being hard to string those highly reflected short sinew backed bows!
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I've always loved your work Rich and hope this will not be the last we see.
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Very interesting. I’m wondering how you prep your sinew? From the pictures it doesn’t appear to be shredded?
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I use complete "as is" backstrap. It is all ready thin and flat so never saw any reason to shred it. I feel it gives me a lot more control on making the sinew even on each limb. Also it very easy to trim width to fit the bow, usually leaving thinner (width) pieces for the outer limb area. Also you can work a lot of trapped air out from under a flat "sheet" verses a bundle of loose strands. I have made several bows that did not need any re-tiller after sinew by doing this....guess I'm lazy and try to keep everything as work efficient as I can.
rich
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Rich,
Excellent tutorial on your technique! Dodo keep passing on the Oglala tidbits, it may help preserve the language by encouraging others to learn it! Too many languages have already been lost! Old guys learn very slowly and forget faster, young folks don't get the encouragement to learn another language, it seems like! Great job on the bow!
Hawkdancer
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While waiting for the sinew dry thought I catch up on some other parts of this project. Going to be 3 posts of pics so please bare with me here.
I cut 2 circles from my whitetail raw hide. One is 8" circle, and the other is a 9" circle. The 8" is the one I cut up for these 2 items. I cut 8 feet of 3/8" wide and 4 feet of 1/4 inch wide strapping and stopped when I had a circle that would fit the bottom of my quiver. I hafted the knife and have 6 feet of 3/8 left. I then took the small "circle" , punched a few holes and laced the bottom of the quiver together with 6" of the 1/4" left.
The hoop for the quiver bottom is a small branch cut from some small ironwood about 2 years ago. I cut a flat side and then wrapped the green twig around a butt cut from the tree. It dried like you see in the pics. Enjoy the pics and please, if any questions or points not covered please ask.
Tomorrow , I'll cut the 9" circle and twist some cordage for the quiver strap and tie down units.
rich
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Forgot a couple of things....sorry. The reason for rawhide hafting on the knife is more to keep my fingers off of the blade as the glue has the blade "locked" in plenty good by itself.....can start carving the antler handle at this point.
I usually do not make "round" bottom quivers, but rather fold them flat.....the reason is simple stone heads do not "bounce around if carried in a flat envelope. Since this quiver will also carry war arrows, they do better in a round flat bottom and not so good in the flat envelope type. So this quiver is round bottomed, and be stuffed with moss for the stone hunting heads and plain for the war arrows.
rich
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Yes, moss! It was hurting my brain to think of a natural way to keep the arrow heads from damaging each other.
Thanks for putting this together. I'll be following closely.
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Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with this build. Great information here. Looking forward to the rest. Mike
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Spent about half a day in the Hospital with my wife this morning so not much done, but here is what went on.
Cut the 9 inch circle of raw hide to make some cordage (not string material) I cut the strap between 3/8 and 1/2 inch and got 16 feet from it. This is going to be simple single ply but I was not sure how much twisted cord I would get.....you wont believe how it came out 16 feet of finished. I think this is because the twisting shortens the string but stretching during the twisting must pretty-much equal out. It is my understanding that the old way was to twist it up between two saplings enough to have some tension on the twisted string, and as it dried the tension would be kept up through out the process.
The second thing I thought I would do is treat my quiver plug to water-proof it before it gets installed. Kind of goes along with Jakes question about the finishes. This is the same stuff I sent to him. I have melted the finish into a shoe polish tin. I heat this gently with a heat gun/ hair dryer until it is soft enough to get onto a rag. I then spread this paste all over the object ( quiver plug ) I then add heat a second time just enough to liquefy it and make it run into all the little nooks and crannies. I then buff all the excess (it sets up a little very quickly) I then re-warm a little to make sure everything has a nice evn coating....buff out once again and there it is..
Here are pictures, as always if any questions please ask.
rich
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I forgot to say that the finish drys to the touch very nicely but never does get real hard. The ratio of pitch, wax, and rendered deer fat are varied based on geographic location. I had to make mine so it would stay pliable in very cold conditions but not get tacky or sticky in the summer. So, no it is not hard, brittle, sticky or any of that....and yes it does require that you check it once in awhile...redo if the object starts looking "dry". Also by keeping your application rag it will have enough embedded into it where you can simply "rub the object down" where the finish will be renewed.
rich
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Sure is nice to see you back working on another bow Rich, and it’s no surprise you’re making it for someone else. You do some incredible work my friend, and the information you’ve shared over the years is priceless, and appreciated more then you know!
Tattoo Dave
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Nice to see you post again, and thanks for he detailed descriptions on your methods.
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I use complete "as is" backstrap. It is all ready thin and flat so never saw any reason to shred it. I feel it gives me a lot more control on making the sinew even on each limb. Also it very easy to trim width to fit the bow, usually leaving thinner (width) pieces for the outer limb area. Also you can work a lot of trapped air out from under a flat "sheet" verses a bundle of loose strands. I have made several bows that did not need any re-tiller after sinew by doing this....guess I'm lazy and try to keep everything as work efficient as I can.
rich
Thank you sir. I like the way you think!
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Very nice!! look forward to watching the progress.
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Only had a part of today so decided to complete the quiver. The pics are sequential and will go along with the explanation (3 or 4 posts...sorry).
First thing I did was dry fit the "bottom" into the lower end of the hide. I kept inserting a little at a time until the bottom plug was able to be turned perpendicular... this spot was just behind the ears. At this point I randomly made 5 tie points through the hide and around the plug with thin split sinew. When it was tied down, I sealed the hide/plug with hide glue.
Next I whittled the bark off of a black ash small limb ( only dry "stick I had). I inserted the stick into quiver until it contacted the plug rim. At this time I decided where I wanted the lower strap to attach. I punched the deer bone awl through the hide and then marked where the lower end of the stick would tie up. At this point I carved in a "V" slot. I then took the cordage from yesterday and ran it into the inside of the quiver (from the outside then into it) pulling the cord on out the open end. Now tie the cord around the stick at the "V" notch and draw it up tight. At this time I put a small "glob" of nearly jelled hide glue to cover the cord, stick and knot. I then draw the cord tight pulling the stick into position and sealing the cord hole on the hide from the inside. I then measured how much cordage I wanted and cut it off the "roll". I figured where I wanted the "high" tie to be and used the awl to punch another hole and repeated the process as used on the other end.
If you notice the way the shoulder strap is tied in a knot. This shortens the over all strap. This allows it to be put "under the belt" for hip quiver or can also be carried over one shoulder.....and of course the knot can be untied and carried conventionally.
That is about it....plain and simple, but effective and accurate for some of the North Eastern tribes. Going to have to just put the pics on with several posts.
rich
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Man, I am in awe of your attention to detail and steadfast natural approach. Thanks so much for taking us along for the ride. :)
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Great job on that Coon quiver Rich...I like the rounded base, it will last forever...
Don
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Thank you upstate....
Thank you Mr. Burchett glad to see you didn't get blowed away or drowned
Made up a knife sheath today for the flint knife. This is a plain design ( stole the idea from a birch bark sheath I saw on the National Museum web-site). The leather is cow hide, but is about the same weight as either Elk or Moose that I am out of.
Lay the knife out on a scrap piece of leather, and made up a pattern to fit this blade. I then folded it over and checked the "fit". Everything looked good so I applied some pitch glue, folded the sheath over again and squeezed to the 2 halves together. This allowed me to cut off the leather so it was even all the way around. The thin layer of glue also held the edges of the open side together, making it easier to mark for the holes. Next I inserted the knife and formed the soft leather as close to the knife as I could and scribed a line around the grip and blade with the point of the awl. Then removed the knife and marked (started) the lace holes with a knife point. At this time I took the short section of lace I cut from doing the quiver plug and split it again down to about 3/16" and soaked it soft again. I then used the awl to temporarily open each "cut" open enough to pass the wet lace through. I did this because when the rawhide is hard again it be more resistent to being cut than regular sewing. Next was to punch holes and sew up the outer edge with a needle and sinew.
Right now it is just plain jane but may decide to add some "bling" later on. Here are some pics from making the sheath. Enjoy the pics
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Looking good Rich!
Really liking this post.
DBar
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Rich,
Using wet rawhide on my Plains quiver I noticed it would get sticky and want to hang up in the hide and hard to pull through...I started wiping the rawhide lace with wet fingers dipped in water and it slid through like it was greased...Did you experience any of the same troubles with your sewing?
During the power outage I made 2 arrows last night using light from Coleman lantern...I was off grid for a while from the Hurricane...
The knife and case look awesome bud...Is the sinew backing shrinking and drying nicely? Really enjoying your work...
Don
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Thank you D bar..
Don, The wet lace would not even start into the knife slits ....but the awl would "round out" the hole and the lace would pull right through...then the hole went back to flat....so yes my experience was identical to yours with the exception I wasn't smart enough to use the wet fingers.....The sinew is doing very nicely and may not take the full 10 days.
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Thanks for that interesting thread.
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Thank you again for the comments fellas, much appreciated for sure.
After 5 days in the air-conditioning the sinew backing is ready for the skin job. So I took some pics of what it looked like. The way I tell where the drying process is at is by visually, feel (watery conditions make the sinew feel "cold" to the touch) and by banging my finger nail on the sinew all over. When it is dry it makes a hard "clicking" sound and if it is not it makes a very dull (soft) sound.
Next I split the snake skin to be slightly wider than the bow, and then put into some warm water. In the mean time I gave the bow a light coat of fairly "dry" hide glue (meaning really thick and not very watery at all), I then take the snake skin out and towel dry it, and then wipe it with some paper towels. It gets a thin coat of the same mixture as the bow. When the skin is placed down on the bow it has very good "grab" meaning there is not very much sliding around....so get it real close right from the git-go. I then rub the skin down hard with my thumbs to purge any trapped air, and make any little alignment issues that might have occurred.
At this point I use scissors to trim the edges of the skin to within about 1/8" too large. Enough to make sure it "rolls" over the edge. At this point the whole thing gets the double "bandage wrap". Wrap in opposite directions so you dont move anything out of alignment and wrap it tight. Here I do it slightly different from the actual sinew....in that I'm going to unwrap in about 4-5 hours, to complete the drying time. The reasoning here is that excess glue worked out will be thick and in direct contact with the bandages so I want it partially dry but not so much so that I cant get the wrapping off.
Will pic up again when the bandage come off this evening.
rich
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Mighty fine, half eye. Thanks. Jawge
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Coming along great!
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George, Howard...thank you sirs
Took the bandages off and trimmed the excess off the edges. Everything looks pretty good with good grab and adhesion as well as a tight fit across the limbs. I did some preliminary edge cleaning but did not want to screw anything up so it will set for a couple days and then I can cut in the string knocks. This bow is a beast...because I added too muck sinew so I think there is a chance that it will need a tiller tweek. Anyway that has to wait a couple more days.
I took some more pics after the bandage came off. The skins on these Carolina Canebreaks are really beautiful and I could not seem to get any good outdoor light but you can get the idea. Will shoot a picture tomorrow and just add it without comment to try and give a true idea of the color.
Don, cant possibly thank you enough my friend
Here are the pics.
rich
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Wow Rich, I was waiting on the second half of your skin post..You done a fine job sir...That was a big snake, have to say Canebreak is my favorite on a bow back and that you are more than welcome buddy...How many pounds do you think the sinew added? Keep it coming man!
Don
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So much knowledge being shared unselfishly here. Thank you very much! Just amazing skills You have Rich.
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Thank you Don
Thanks hoosierf
Here are pics of the skin in the day light.
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Went ahead and checked the tiller and it was very close so a little sand paper brought it around to what I wanted. The bends are even and smooth so it's all good on that point. I am posting 3 different tiller shots so you can get an idea of where it is. The next thing here will be to make a string and get her to final full draw status, although I dont believe the tiller will change from what you see here.
Next I put the alligator handle wrap on. First 3 pics are the "doing" and the last 3 are the "done". Basically, this was treated just like any other raw hide, soaked the gator back to soft and a thin piece of whitetail rawhide strap and sewed it on. I dried the hide and strap down to "damp" so water would be run all over the sinew job. Now she gets her belly smoothed down, the side knocks single pin smoothed up then apply the bow "finish" with several coats heated and rubbed in.
I need to get with Joe and see about the final string for this bow....I'm not sure that my whitetail rawhide stings are up to this much weight so a second opinion is really needed here.
Once the bow is mostly done I'll try pulling it by standing on the string but use a luggage scale to see about the weight.
rich
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Rich,
The bend looks spot on from here...That Gator handle looks beautiful and it will dry up nice and tight...It looks deadly against the Canebreak...I didn't miss the turtle claws in the background either...Enjoying this build
Don
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This makes me smile. :) Jawge
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Looking spot on Rich. I’m enjoying this build along immensely. That thing looks like a real doozy taboot. I think the rawhide string should hold up. I’ve used them in the past with no real issues
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Thanks Don much appreciated....ya aint supposed to see them war-heads
Thanks George
Joe, I,m sort of nervous of a two ply whitetail rawhide string. I'm not sure what the full draw weight will be but I'm thinking somewhere north of 70#. It seems to be real smooth though. Maybe I can call you this evening sir?
rich
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Drooling a bit over that bow
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it may be the silliest thought but I often think in amazement how a man can combine different materials
who would have tough that that reptile, a living gator swimming in a swamp would have joined a canebreaks and a whitetail and some wood (and Rich) to produce such a beauty?
I can almost see the line of their lives move in space and time to meet their final fate
ok ok time for me to get my pills again :D
awesome bow. love that gator handle :OK
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Excellent work sir. So nice seeing all these pieces come together. Looking forward to the rest. Mike
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Thank you all for the very nice comments.
Spent most of the day with my wife in the local hospital, but did manage to start on the bow string. Started with a 10" circle of whitetail rawhide. This was just like the other cordage I showed before. I did scrbe each circle cut at 3/8" all the way around and repeated this until I had about 12 feet of 3/8" strap and a roughly 3" circle left in the center. Next I tied the rawhide to a nail at the mid-point of the strap.
Next you want to place the two straps one on top of the other and give a few twists....continue down the strap to the other end making sure you maintain both straps flat and even to each other. When ya get to the end tie a knot (double over-hand and work the knot tight) I use this knot to hold a spring clamp at the end without sliding off.
Since the rawhide is slippery this clamp helps this old one hander to keep tension on the line and continue to twist.....the most important reason is that the clamp can be fastened down (so the cord cant "unwind") and I can keep the tension AND still use the good hand to work the string. By work the string I mean use your hand to grab the sting and squeeze the string as you work it back and forth. This helps even out the wraps, the diameter, and trains the cord to be what ya expect out of it. You repeat this "pull,twist and rub" until you are at the diameter you want, the twists as even as possible, and good tension on the string. The string wrings water out as you twist it and the rubbing down spreads this liquid out evenly. If you think about it this liquid is actually "hide glue".
When you think you are where ya want to be ya got one more job. With the string all twisted and good tension on it, get your hands wet and shake 'em off then put the string between your palms press pretty hard together and roll the string back and forth ...repeat this progressively down the entire string. The reason for slightly wet hands is by now the string will actually be getting "sticky". Now just keep your eye on it for a few hours and it needs to get rolled again etc. ya can continue to do it. Once the string is barely damp it wont change much any more.
Two sets of pics, hope I took enough maybe not, please if any questions make sure to ask.
rich
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Rich,
Thanks for the build along...You make a fine string, I can attest to that...I have one you sent me on my Ocean Spray in the upper 50's, and the only wear showing on the string is where it polished itself on the inside against the pin nocks...Been shot over 1000 times easily practicing for the upcoming season...
Don
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Never used a rawhide string ,do they stop streching after a while ? What is the diameter of it?
You have made a beautifull set sir, museum quality for sure allthough i hope they are used and not confined to a display case.if you ever get the bug show us another of your scallopped bows they are beautifull.
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Ohma2....the dried rawhide does not stretch (when dried) think in terms of a drum head. Usually the only issue with a heavyweight bow is the string will tighten up the knots, loop and half hitches, and usually that can be dealt with by adding a twist or two ....or retie the bowyers knot and retie shorter.
I gave away all of my NA bows with the vast majority going to members that WOULD use them, that's what they are for. Take a look at Mr. Burchett's posts he and others can attest to the effectiveness of the equipment. I'm attaching a photo of the string diameter....now I have to scrub the "high-tech" off my string ::).
Most probably not going to be anymore bows,
rich
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Very much so enjoying this thread. I have an elm sapling destined to become a Cherokee style bow, it will be strung with a string like this because you shared how to do it.
Thank you.
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Thanks Morgan....ya made my whole day sir....
rich
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I've never seen a string like that. It's awesome. Is that a technique used by native tribes somewhere in North America? Thanks so much for showing us how you do it!
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really a great job showing by a master, thanks a lot!
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Thanks for showing the rawhide string technique - that sounds like something I need to try! Did you cut it into the 3/8" width because of the high draw weight, or is that a standard size?
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Lookin good Rich
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Never used a rawhide string ,do they stop streching after a while ? What is the diameter of it?
You have made a beautifull set sir, museum quality for sure allthough i hope they are used and not confined to a display case.if you ever get the bug show us another of your scallopped bows they are beautifull.
ohma2, These rawhide strings that Rich makes are top notch hand cut and hand stretched...Mine are well used, I own 4 rawhide strings that Rich sent...They are tough as nails...Here's a link to a bow that has one of his strings http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,63412.0.html 1000+ shots and still shooting on the original string in the post...No need for string silencers with rawhide, it's by far the quietest material I have shot...They do finally settle in after some careful adjustments...Realize they are twisted and not under the strain a bow would put on them...The first stringing will move on you visually until the twist tightens...After a few shots you may need a few twists to settle your brace height...These are primitive strings and need to be adjusted accordingly...I use pine pitch, bees wax and tallow mixture to keep moisture away and help with conditioning...Mine are safe in the rain
Don
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Hey Fellas,
Got the strings and bow sealed with my spruce-goo. Before mounting the rawhide string I thought I needed to know the weight range of this bow. I made up a artificial sinew string and got her braced.
The only scale I still have is a 55#'r. so I tied the scale to the porch rail hooked the bow string to her and yanked it on back.....well to 55# that is. This little girl hit 54# at 14" of draw. so at 25" it is going to be above 80#. Here is how I figured that.....I have 54# at 14" which gives me another 11 inches to go so if it gains 2# / inch you have to add 22#...if it gains 2.5# you have to add 27# so I'm calling it between 75 and 81# @ 25.
I had something happen that has never got me before. I braced it up and was pulling it on the floor and damned if did not pull the string into the knock shoulder hard enough to start a crack. attached pics for you to see. After gluing and clamping the split, I will put rawhide wrapping on @ tip to put an end to that nonsense. It will probably be tomorrow and I can takes pics of the repair and a braced up pic. I have never had the string damage a limb before, but now I see the reason some NA bows have sinew/rawhide reinforced limb tips.
Sorry for the delay fellas but we'll catch up and get this rig ready to send out to Joe for a "proper work-out.
rich
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Sorry I forgot the ?.....The raw string was widely used across the NA Range. Some were twisted, some not, and some made from sinew, or reptile hide or groundhog hide, Some made from split cane.....I have to assume that every region had it's preferred string material and method.
Some of the Eastern bows had single strand strings some twisted some plain. Any bow that is near to 50# I make a 2 ply 3/8 twisted string. Probably overkill but that size made me all warm and fuzzy. Speaking of strings another really good material is some animal gut (intestines) I have heard that racoon gut was quite common in the Eastern and Mid Western areas.
Also keep in mind that twisting (that is not overdone) and then drying makes a dense and strong cord. Meaning the diameter when finished is a lot smaller than when it was stretched out wet.
rich
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Rich, I had wondered if intestine was strong enough for string, also if it could be split and used for a rawhide back.
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Morgan, I have made 2 "gut" strings....they make a damned tough string sir. The work comes in cleaning them inside and out and being able to get a good split for their entire length. I can make you a drawing of the "splitting rig" if you like. My other personal faveorite is snapping turtle neck skin. I have not had a craving for turtle lately and dont want to kill one for a string....can make you a drawing of how to do that if you would like.
rich
PS: ya know that once you go to the dark-side and harvest that first deer with all natural you are going to get odd looks and questions.....and the absolute greatest feeling of satisfaction.
Forgot to add that regarding strength...in the day cat gut strings is all the professional tennis players used for string (might still be that way) their rackets and I know some were tensioned around 100 pounds. You can still buy gut string if ya dont want to make your own.
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Rich, I’d love to see your splitting rig. I have something similar to a tail splitter envisioned. I hear you on not harvesting without need, I’m the same way.
Thank you
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Got the bow repaired and a new string installed. Took pics. Also got pics of the rawhide string after it was treated. The rawhide wrap on the limb tips seems to be dry but I will string it up tomorrow. A little extra time wont hurt a thing.
Also made up the sketch's for the gut splitter, and how I cut a turtle neck skin for strings. This actually works well for any cased hide like ground hog, etc. basically it works well for anything you can peel the hide off of whole.
be a few pic posts hope you like.
rich
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more pics
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Rich,
Nice repair...That makes it even stronger than it was before the split...Did you wrap both ends?
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yes Don I sure did, upper and lower.
rich
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my apology's fellas I just noticed I put the wrong string pic on this post. The one above is the single ply cordage I used on the quiver and it has not been treated. Here is the pic of the 2 ply bow string and this HAS been treated. sorry
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Looking good! I was going back through to try to find what type of knot you use for the top limb - I think you said timber hitch/bowyer's know for the lower. Glad the repair worked out!
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TimBo....there is no "normal" way to string NA bows. This bow has a sliding loop top and a form of timber hitch (w/two initial wraps) on the lower. This was a common way to do it in the areas where the NA people were horse culture. A tied off lower limb and a sliding loop is necessary because the Sioux (among other plains tribes) strung their bows while mounted. Just think about that for a minuet, I cant even imagine stringing a 60/70/80 pound bow while setting in a saddle....hell, I cant hardly do it standing up on the ground. :o
rich
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Wow Rich, great save on that limb. Like you I've never had Osage split down the nock on me but you sure pulled it off with that awesome fix. Come to think of it I did see a plains style bow with a rawhide sheath on the horn of the bow near the nock. Perhaps it was a similar fix as well. Looking good my friend.
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Rich, the snake skin came out great. You mentioned split cane strings. Can you tell me a little about that process?
And that's crazy to think they braced these bows on horseback....and I didn't know they made bows 80#'s (A)
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OK guys, here is some money shots....sort of. Ya know I cant draw this bow so had to settle for the "stand on the string" method which has a couple of problems. Cant get my wife to "square up to the bow so, sorry for that... the other problem is that the sole of my shoe is a lot wider than 3 fingers on the string as well as getting a full two handed grip. Also the bow is only drawn to about 21/22" so this not a "real" full draw....ya gonna have to wait for Oglala Bowyer to show you how it is done after he gets it. The numbers on the pics do show however that the bow was strung "braced", then drawn, then a resting unbraced. Anyway here are the pics (2 posts) then I'll try to answer the questions....hey I'm old and dont multi-task real good so bare with me.
rich
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next pics
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Bayou B, I gave away my NA books to a member on the site so I'm sorry I cant post a picture. I do believe that the inner bark (cane would be the thin "rind" or hard outer cover. That was stripped off in long strips and then wet like doing cane backed chairs. That way ya can "wrap tie the string" to form a knot, The ones I had pics of the "string was 2 ply (2 strips) back to back and was not twisted. Also the bows they were on did not have string knocks either as the string was simply tied to a sharp tapered bow tip. The same type of string can be made out of basswood inner bark in that case the outer bark was beaten with a stick while it was still on the tree. Then the bark was pealed off. Most of the time the inner bark stays on the tree and peals off easily....it is realy suple and strong and can be used "flat" or twisted like a hide string.
About the bow weight, the same book related an early report to the Smithsonian where "a well ossified" buffalo vertebra was found with a "hoop iron arrow point" the bone had been completely penetrated. When you analyze that the arrow would have to have penetrated the buffalo's tough hide, then about a foot of heavy muscle and then the bone....that means the bows were indeed heavy weight.
Oglala, I'm satisfied that the limb will not be a problem again . There was no movement at all after the repair....just like it never happened. Also the hide glued sinew wouldn't allow the split to go past it So I dont believe that it is not as strong as it ever was. I pulled a chest muscle stringing this beast so I'm all done with it ...you can pull these babies all day long so have some fun with her....and thank you for your friendship and knowledge sir.
rich
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Thanks again Rich for that super interesting post.
I've learned a lot from you over the last years!
Oh, and the bow and the other stuff looks just great, like fresh from ancient natives.
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Very good post. One question, can a rawhide string be adjusted for length by twisting after it has dried?
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DC,
Yes they can be twisted when dry....but only to a certain extent. What I mean by that is a double ply twist string can be twisted a little (maybe one or two revolutions and then they will try to knot-up. A single ply string can be turned more than a 2 ply but still not a whole lot. When I get the new string stretched out on the braced bow I will only twist it if it is still close to proper, if not I will re-tie the lower knot to get the proper brace height (or at least close enough that a twist or two will do).
Simson,
I dont believe that I have anything to teach professional bow builders sir, but thanks for the sentiment.
rich
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Wow Rich...! 80 @ 25 on a 48" bow is an amazing accomplishment...All the profiles are excellent on that 5 curve...Full draw on the floor looks even and balanced...Beautiful job on the skins, handle, knife and the whole kit...Superb all natural build brother...I really enjoyed this build along, thank you...
Don
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Mr. Burchett,
The balance will have to be commented on by Joe. But I am pleased with it for sure. This last build would not have been possible without you and Trapper Rob. Trapper gave me the coon hide and of course you supplied the rawhide, that beautiful cane break not mention the encouragement to do "one more". Your a good friend sir.
I will be posting up the "prep" of the rawhide string just to cover that base though. Probably not necessary to post about the arrows....guess everybody on the site knows how to do that already. Hell of a ride for a dime though.
rich
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Thanks for the explanation. I have some dried river cane I'll try and strip a few of the ones not suitable for arrows just to get a feel for the process.
Amazing about the arrow head found in the vertebra...
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Ben, you can do an internet search of South American bows and I'm sure they will have a couple of pictures that might help. By the way the South Eastern tribes have some connection to those tribes and the "mound builder culture" which spread as far north as southern Michigan. This was in the prehistoric time frame of course. A little side note....by the time the Spanish came in through Florida the Native Americans made them very afraid because it seems that they would use a cane shaft with no head....just split the cane shaft forward section and lightly wrap with sinew....when they hit their chain male the shaft splintered and penetrated between the rings....a week or two in the high humidity and heat and when they died it was not too pretty.
rich
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Here are some pics of how I tie the "loop" end of the string. I first cut the knot off of the "lower end" and then pass the string through the small loop that was formed when I tied the wet rawhide around the nail for twisting. Make this formed circle loop about how large you want your upper loop to be....then add 1" more for binding. I took a flat piece of 3/8 rawhide left over from the quiver cord, soaked it and then split lengthwise into 2 roughly 3/16 rawhide "strings".
Pass the end of the "lace" through the same loop as ya did with the main string about an inch or so. Now take the skinny rawhide and pass a wrap or 2 around the bow string just below the small loop and then commence to wrap up over the small loop and up the main loop until your bow string loop is the proper size. Next you keep winding but back down your initial wrapping until you are back down over the small loop about 3 turns, then secure with 2 half hitches.
When you do the wrapping put a lot of pressure on the wrap cord (dont break the wet rawide) now you need to set it aside to dry. When the wrap is dry (or very nearly so) and coat generously with "thick hide glue. One note: when you are done wrapping the bowstring loop it will be somewhat "miss-shaped"....so make sure you get the loop in direct line with the bow string.
Here are pics hope the idea is clear enough, if not please advise.
rich
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Thank you half eye, that was fantastic.
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Incredible fix half eye and a beautiful bow. )P(
I am beside myself at the sheer force necessary to lodge an arrowhead into a Bison spine. :o
We are discussing NA history in my 5th grade social studies class and we're just about to move from Paleo into Archaic (the period in which the bow and arrow first appeared). I'm really trying to stress how the people used the materials they had available. Hope it's cool if I use this thread as a reference. :)
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Thanks Helmet
Upstate, you are welcome to use or lose any of the post you see fit. I'm glad to see somebody teaching some respect for just how ingenious these people are/were. Especially how good their equipment (clothing to housing to weapons to food gathering etc.) was. No fiberglass, carbon fiber, epoxy etc etc necessary, and especially not an electronic device or computer in sight ::) Thank you for keeping "primitive" alive sir.
rich
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Rich it turned out really nice.
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Rich, I like everything about that.
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Rich, I’ve been watching and really enjoyed this thread. The set came out really nice. Made me go down and look at the otter set you made me along with the BL bow. For those of us Lucky fellows that have received a Half-Eye bow or set can call our selves extremely lucky. Rich you truly are a Master of your trade weather it’s bows, guns, or carvings.
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Thank you sir - those photos and your description help a lot! I think I've got it now...time to go cut some rawhide.
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Thanks everybody for the kind words. Gutshot, I hope your surgery went well and you are on the mend sir.
rich
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Rich,
I would love to see the war arrows if you haven't sent it all off yet...
Don
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Learned a lot from you over the years on PA and always enjoyed seeing your craftsmanship. This bow and set is a great piece of living artwork.
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Thank you Peacebow_Coos much appreciated
Don, decide not to make the real arrows ....but did make examples to be used as visual aids for a school program.
Here are the pics. First are the 4 major fletching styles from Eastern tribes. The first pic...left to right Eastern split shaft (one feather in a split shaft) next Eastern woodland two fletch next 2 fletch glued and tied cut lower than the folded full feather two fletch and finally Eastern woodland three fletch glued and tied. There are of course variations of these four but you can consider this "the basic food groups"
The arrow heads show two types of "war heads" and the flint hunting head. Here is the scoop on the diference......a hunting head is built to do everything possible to kill quickly the war heads on the other hand are made to kill positively but slowly, generally through septicemia. Notice that the war heads are partially blunt...only want them in 3-5 inches....then got a big problem. The arrows are to blunt to push through, and if you try to withdraw them they leave the nasty behind. In one case it's fine toxic slivers (usually these are made from cedar, tamarack etc there resins are real bad inside your body.......now for the turtle claw, the front of the shaft is first cut to form a pair of connected cylinders, that is "grooved" so that the turtle claw has a sort of "nest" where it is tied with very fine sinew using the cut shoulder as the tie point. This arrow is too blunt to completely penetrate the body and the claw fish-hooks the fine sinew gets wet from warm blood and softens very quickly but again that is not necessary....it cant be pushed through and trying to withdraw it the turtle claw and sinew are left behind to fester. The sinew and the skin end of the claw are particularly toxic because of inherent bacteria.
The last thing I got say here is this....before you feel sorry for the French, Yanks, and Brits....both the Brits and Americans unleashed "presents" to the Chippewa and Ottawa that contained small pox which killed a large percentage of the population and that's Men / women / and children. They did that purposely and on two separate occasions These arrows were made to make a statement.
Enjoy the pics....and let this thing go away
rich
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I hope Rich doesn't mind if I sing his praises a little...
As many of you know, the sheer volume of knowledge this man possesses is mind-boggling. I've had the pleasure of speaking with him some over the phone and not only does he know precisely how Native tribes used the natural materials they had on hand to make tools, weapons, ect, and how to reproduce them, he fully understands the history behind how and why these technologies were put to use.
Rich, you have enabled me to teach history in a way every student in America deserves to be taught- by seeing, holding, touching, smelling, and wholly experiencing artifacts that tell stories of how man lived deeply within nature. A way of life that is falling into oblivion more and more each day.
Thank you many, many times over my friend. )P(
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Rich,
Awesome work...I wouldn't want to receive a wound from any of those arrows...I give myself about 3 days max? That turtle claw we have discussed many times...Excellent presentation Sir...Thanks for going the extra mile on this thread, I have really enjoyed the ride bud...
Don