Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bradsmith2010 on October 20, 2018, 01:11:19 pm
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my friend Randy went to a ranch in New Mexico to get these, they had come from Texas and were to be re used, but were not for some reason,, I thought they looked very old,, as they had been in the ground a long time in Texas, ,then lay on the ground in New Mexico for who knows how long,, I think the wood is well aged,, :),, and hope to see some staves and billets out of those soon,,
what a find,, (SH) hope I can buy one,, (lol) the trailer is 8 feet
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There is gonna be some great bows with character in that pile of fence posts. :OK You'll be surprised how hard that wood is. (A)
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Nice find. I hope we get to see what those post are turned into. Like Pat said, there's going to be some serious character in those staves.
Bjrogg
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What wood are they?
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Those look pretty crispy. I hope you are able to find some solid wood in there. If it's checked to bad for bows you can make some cool bow racks out of it. I used an old black locust fence rail for a bow rack. I took a draw knife and removed the grey wood until I got to the nice brown color with the black cracks all through it.
(https://i.imgur.com/WYcr6Ww.jpg)
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If those are usable, It makes me wonder if burnt Juniper from a fire could work.
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If it is not too badly burnt, there should be some good wood under the charring. Depends on how fast the fire went through, and whether or not foam was used. I think a slow moving fire would leave less good wood behind. Maybe a lot of nice charcoal, though!
Hawkdancer
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I picked up some about a year ago in southern Oklahoma. I looked at them for yard art then decided to cut them up for fire wood. when the saw barley cut those son of a guns I realized how solid they where. I have one left and am thinking about trying a bow and if not a bow rack. John
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Brad when you go to work on one ,take us along for the ride.
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Cool.....Like said they can make bows.You got some length to work with and that's good.Longitudal drying cracks to work with.I'm sure in New Mexico they are as dry and hard as you can get.If not a bow they are useful for other projects too.Beautiful wood.You'll need to sharpen your draw knife Brad.They are tougher than all get out.You'll get a good workout.Some people make family name signs out of them too.They'll still last a lifetime for sure.
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Hey Guys... Thanks Brad for starting this. I am Brad's friend that picked up the wood. Brad is my bow making mentor and my hunting partner. I have been able to try different bow making methods thanks to Brad's assistance.
I unloaded the posts this morning. They are solid, if the weight has anything to do with it.
Most of them are 8 footers with a few shorter. A couple appear to have very straight grain.
Due to the weight of the corner posts, I split one this morning before moving it. I need to learn how to post a picture so i can show you what I found when I split the post.
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I'm guessing a golden yellow color hidden inside
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I am having a bit of a problem getting the picture of the split loaded. let's see if this works.
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Looking at the color I'd say that is very old osage. Gonna make some nice bows. :OK
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Should be interesting. Make sure you take lots of pictures as you go. I'm with ohma2. I'd like to see the transition from post to bow. (-P
Welcome to pa RandyN
PS that one reminds me of my "Walking Stick" stave. That horizontal limb your probably going to want to get behind and find some nice wood that goes around it.
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I plan on taking a lot of pictures along the way. Maybe someone that has a chance to get old posts will take advantage of it and make some nice bows. They looked a little intimidating when I first picked them up. After the first split, they look more like bows already. I hope I can do them justice.
Pat... Brad thinks they have been around for a long time. You can see were they were in the ground as a fence post. But not a lot of rot compared to other woods.
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I hate to be a downer, but I don't see anything I'd try to make a bow out of... and yeah, I've made bows with osage so old I would have sworn it was petrified... to this day, still by FAR the hardest stuff I've ever used, and I've yet to see osage again of the same color. Just because it's old and weathered doesn't mean we can ignore the requisites we adhere to any other time. I guess what I'm saying is... not that there isn't maybe a bow in there somewhere... but good luck finding it.
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It's not the destination, it's the journey. 8)
Those staves are excellent wood and wood bow educators.
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I think there is a bow in that pile somewhere,, maybe some billets,,maybe some bow racks,,etc,, it will be fun to split some and see,, probably alot more work to get it out,, than some staves, but a bow made from that stuff will really be nice,, and worth the effort
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I think there is a bow in that pile somewhere,, maybe some billets,,maybe some bow racks,,etc,, it will be fun to split some and see,, probably alot more work to get it out,, than some staves, but a bow made from that stuff will really be nice,, and worth the effort
Well said. Looking forward to seeing the results!
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Forgot to make a welcome aboard on my reply! Looks like a goodly amount of usable wood, rustic art from old wood is a popular item, even if you can't get bow wood! Waiting to see what you are able to do with it! Keep your tools sharp! Good luck!
Hawkdancer
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Thanks for the positive input. Like Pat B says, "Its not the destination, it's the journey". I always tell my archery student if you say you can't do something, just means your not willing to try. If you don't try you never know what the outcome will be. I always learn something weather it is a shootable bow or not.
Thanks for all the welcome messages. I have followed this site for years and have learned a lot from you guys.
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I split one of the posts yesterday. Split it along a natural check in the wood. Gave me 2 equal staves. After looking at them I decided to split one in half again. Came out nice with 2 equal staves. This pic is of the staves before I split one of them a second time.
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I cut the bad end off the stave. It has some nice rings.
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I was excited to see the nice rings. Took a draw knife to see how far into the stave the weathered wood was. I only had to go down a couple rings to find a nice back. I am going to take another ring off for the back of the bow to be safe.
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:OK gonna be a fun journey.
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thats beautiful wood,,, (SH)
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I can see a bow in there. Congratulations thanks for the pictures. This is gonna be cool. Don't forget to show your fence post to who you got it from when it's shooting. Enjoying this . (-P
Bjrogg
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What an awesome collection of wood!
Please post updates on the journey, it's going to be fascinating to watch the progress.
Best of luck,
Matt
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That is just plain kool! Now I got the itch I gotta scratch. John
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Now you just gotta wait forever for it to season lol ;D
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Made some progress on the post today. I was able to get the ruff weathered gray wood off the back and down to a growth ring. Here's a closeup of the growth rings.
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Not sure what order these pics will appear.
1. Picture of the full back. Still have a little touch up work to do.
2. A couple islands that I left proud around knots. Not sure they will play a role in the actual bow but figured better safe than sorry.
3. The stave on the right is the sister stave to the one I am working. That is after the 2nd split.
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I will go with Osage outlaw on that pile. Arvin
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Randy gave me a piece of post today,, I took off a few layers of wood,, and I think I see a bow,, now I have to decide if I want to make a shorter sinew bow,, or cut it down the middle and splice it together,,for a longer self bow,, I will sleep on it,, (-S
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I once made a bow from a piece that had been laying on the ground for at least 40 years. I think you guys can do it. (-P
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Brad, it would be a shame to cover that beautiful wood with anything although I bet it would make a snappy sinew backed bow. :-\
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Looks like there is more than one bow on that trailer! Have fun and keep us posted!
Hawkdancer
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Brad,,You got thing down quick. Thats going to make a nice bow, whatever you decide. I am going to take a couple picots of my stave tomorrow and show everyone what you and I talked about doing to my stave. Stay tuned guys, looks like dueling stave happening here. This will be fun.
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Took some quick pics this morning so you can see what my stave is looking like. Brad, thanks for the help yesterday.
1. Shows the center line of the bow. Straight forward on the straight section of the stave.
2. A couple potential problem areas that we had to do a little more thinking about. Cut the stave off at the area with a knot on both sides for a shorter possibly sinew backed bow. Cut it off here, then cut down the middle of the straight part of the stave and make 2 billets, splice them together for a longer self bow. Or work around the problem and have a nice character bow. This one needed some thought.
3. Then we have the easier problem to deal with, the twist.
OK, its morning and I'm still not sure which way I want to go. I hate to waste the good wood and I like a challenge so I am thinking I will just start removing wood and shaping the bow. The wood will let me know what the best choice will be.
Brad, your half is definitely the better/easier half. Just kidding!!! :
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im gonna go down one more ring and get past some checks,, Pat you are right,, the wood is too pretty to cover up,, Ill just see how it goes,, I got so excited I drew a bow on Randys stave,, I think if he goes down one ring,, it will get rid of the the "ARt Work"
I am thinkingi of trying to splice on some extensions,, to get a bit more length,, I only draw 25 so its not too hard to get that,,
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Very interesting stave you got there.
DBar
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Decision made. Followed the grain around the knots on the side of the bow. Did a little rough out of what the bow will look like. Looking more like a bow than a post.
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Oh yes I like this threat! Awesome load of poles and really nice to see you guys make bows out of that gnarly stuff! (-P
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Get that heat gun ready! >:D
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heat gun and maybe steam for sure,, I took mine down another ring,, looking pretty good considering how it started,,just out of respect for the work Randy did to get the wood here,, I gonna try my best to shoot an arrow from it,,not going to try to re invent the wheel,, just a nice simple bow that shoots,,, -C-
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made a little progress,, I was not expecting it to turn out this nice,, I thought there was some wood in there,, but this piece exceeded my expectations,, it was fun to find the treasure in that post,, now if I can get it to bend,, (-S I have enough wood to go down more rings if I want,, almost enough to get a bow off the belly,, but trying not to get greedy,,I have ruined staves before trying to get too much from it,, )-w(
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That's looking really good Brad. Just think how long that bow has been waiting for you to find it and bring it to life. I think this is awesome.
Bjrogg
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Brad that is looking great. I knew that stave found a good home with you.
I ran into a bit of an issue today. I think as I continue shaping the bow they will both resolve themselves. One of the limbs has a check between midlimv and about the 8" mark. I think I have an idea how to get rid of it all together and still have a mid limb that will be about 1.25" wide. Take a look.
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If you remember in an earlier post I decided to work around a couple knots. I found this in the center of one of the knots today. It is close enough to the fade area so I don't think it will be a problem if it falls out, which I expect it to do. If it does the plan will be, leave that are thick because the limb will be down to about 1" wide in that area.
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where is that knot in the bow,, non working part?
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Don't like that knot. It's running through at a bad angle. Hope it's not a bend area.
How much wood flows around it between it and back of bow?
Bjrogg
PS I might be looking at it wrong if it's more than one knot
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Ever run into a problem making a bow and think you will just sleep on it. You wake up at 3:15 with a clear picture so you drift off to sleep again only to wake up and go, What was I thinking. Well that happened to me this morning.
Maybe a little better description of what you are looking at in the pic of the knot. The darker wood, concave side is the side of the bow. The round knot itself is the belly of the bow. Since I have not decided on a length to make the bow, this area can definitely fall into the fade and be a non-working part of the limb. It would work out quite nice doing that because that could be the arrow side of the bow for a right handed shooter, which I happen to be.
Now to bjrogg question,,,there is a strong 1/2" of wood over the knot. The total thickness of that area is 1 1/4". The limb width at the knot is 1 1/4" wide. So I think I still have options.
The options I see right now, after lack of sleep are;
Continue to work the bow making this area part of the fade.
Cut the bow off just above the knot and make a shorter backed bow.
And ????
Brad will be getting a visitor today and we will talk it over.
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I'm thinking if you got a good 1/2" around it for your back that either option should work.
Make it what you want.
Bjrogg
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I went to Brad's today with the stave. He thought maybe a better pic of what I was talking about might help others see what's going on. So here is the pic. you can see the knot above my hand. The pic is of the belly side of the bow. My hand is where the handle will be. So the area with the knot will still be in the fade and non-working.
Thanks again Brad. It is so nice to able to talk to Brad and let him see what I'm talking about and then get the best input I could ever ask for.
No bow work today. Hopefully I'll have some time tomorrow. I am having trouble resizing the pic tonight. I will try again tomorrow.
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Oops! No pic >:D! I'm following this because I have a couple of Osage that should at least make a kid's bow, and hopefully a bow foe Little Fiddle Woman!
Hawkdancer
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Sorry for the delay with the pic. I could not get ti to load last night. Here it is. Does not look as bad in this pic.
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OOOPS. It would help to slow down and attach the pic. :)
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just as a side note,, my stave started to check a bit more when I got it down to a nice ring, I think the climate here is so dry that even a cured stave can check,, anyway I coated it with paint and will go down another ring, I have plenty of wood,, at that point I will just work with what check are there, as they are in the middle of the limb and not going to cause a problem,, I just got carried away trying to make it look nice,,probably gonna sinew back it anyway,,, what was I thinking,, (-S
I think putting the stave inside,, was the main cause of checking,,and the climate change,, it came from up north close to colorado,,must have been more humid there,,
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I noticed a few checks in my stave as well. I never imagined a post lying on the ground for a long period of time, that had a ton of natural checks, would check some more after I removed what was left of the bark, down to a single ring. Still learning something new with each bow I make.
Brad was worried about his art work on the back of my bow. I spent maybe 5 minutes with a scraper and removed it. No damage done to the ring. However, I am headed to to the Mayo Clinic in AZ tomorrow with my wife so no more bow work until next week. I will see if the checks get any worse while I'm gone. If so, I can take it down at least to the next ring if I have too. I still have plenty of wood.
Here is the pic of a clean back stave.
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Looking good Randy.
Brad I keep spray shellac on my work bench and spray any newly exposed new wood, backs and ends. I've had very old, well seasoned staves check once new wood was exposed.
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thats a great idea,, do you just sand it off if you want to back it,,
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Yep, just sand it off or wipe it off with denatured alcohol. Any finish will go over shellac so it doesn't have to be removed for that.
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Hey Guys. Sorry for the long delay on posting. My wife and I had a good trip to Mayo in AZ. Now back and working on the stave.
I have to confess, I have been cheating on the osage stave with a Juniper stave. I cut this stave from a branch in my yard while doing some trimming. I will leave this for another post but here are a couple pictures to give you an idea of what is happening with it.
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Now back to the osage stave. I started this project with no expectations, bow style, bow weight, etc. I would let the wood tell me what it wants to become. Well that continues to change as time goes along and the wood comes off. First, this thing is not budging at all. Not even close to starting to floor tiller. But the wood on the belly side continues to change grain direction. Between the 2 knots on opposite sides of the stave, the grain changes direction a couple different times. This is causing grain tear and I am getting nervous due to the narrow width in this area. So instead of stressing about it, I put the draw knife away and will work it with the rasp.
Here's what the area looks like.
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Couple more pics of the back of the bow in this area.
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Then on the other limb I find a bore hole. It is in the center of the limb so it should not be a problem. But it does fall in the are of a small grain change and a slight jog in the limb. I did not take a pic of the belly but I think you can get an idea of what is happening.
I need to share that I work a lot slower on my bow building than most guys. I take my time and try to think through the problem areas rather than just charging ahead and making a mistake. Doing it this way helps me learn.
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I'm really sorry to say this but that bore hole is a problem.Checks lengthwise are ok not making the edge of limb but a hole like that is a game changer.The ring is violated with that hole.
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You could fill it with superglue and sawdust and hope for the best.
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Do you mix the superglue and sawdust like a putty, or pack the hole with Sawdust, then saturate with the superglue? I found a hole in a hickory stave that may or may not be a problem when I work the stave into a bow. Might as well fix it now! Thanks
Hawkdancer
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If you do the superglue sawdust thing, good item to do it outside. Some folks are quite sensitive to the fumes it puts off, I am one of them. Some folks don’t notice that there are any fumes. If I fool with more than a couple drops of ca glue inside, It irritates my eyes and airway badly and I end up with a respiratory infection.
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Hawkdancer,,,I usually fill the hole with fine saw dust from the wood I am working with and pack it in. Then I use a very thin superglue. I have been using Loctite 420. It works extremely well.
Eric,,,the superglue is definitely an option. I thought about it as soon as I saw the hole. It is small and since the limbs are not starting to bend, I am going to take it down a little further and see what happens.
Thanks guys for all the positive feedback on my project. I am not sure what the final decision, fill or not fill, will be just yet. When Brad and I talked about doing this, I usually don't post my projects, I wanted to do this from the stand point of a new bowyer that does not have a lot of money to spend on staves that are perfect. I should be able to get a bow out of this stave and I will be sharing all the problems I come across as we go along. There are plenty of good posts on here where individuals can learn the proper technique to make a bow from a clean stave. But I have not seen too many posts that go through the process of making a bow from what some would consider a scrape piece of wood. I want to encourage guys to try bow building even if the bow doesn't come out pretty, or a great shooter. I learn something from every bow I make. To me, not trying means your not willing to fail.
So here we go. Marching forward determine to get a bow that shoots.
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Just looked at my pics. I might have some of you confused. These are pics of knot holes in the stave. There is plenty of wood around these. I don't think they will be a problem.
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Here is the pic of the bore hole. Really small and in the center of the limb. It does go all the way through the limb at an angle. That is why I am considering filling it. It's hard to see.
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to late to turn back,,keep going and see what she does,, )W( (f)
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I salute you.. I cut up about twenty , 50 year old hedge post a couple years ago for firewood.. incredibly dense stuff. Fully sharpened to dull blade in about 6 to 8 cuts. I still have 20 or so left.
Imma stick to fresh Osage, it cuts easier! Good luck dude!
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What a cool project, Randy. Thanks for sharing it. I hope you can turn it into a great shooter.
Thomas
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Plus 2! Plan for success and think through your moves before you make them. It's easier to correct a slight opps than a major screw up! Good thinking, Randy. Looks like the bow is progressing!
Hawkdancer!
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I don't want to bore you with all the details on the stave. It is coming along nicely and starting to take the shape of a bow. Like I said in an earlier post, I have put away the draw knife and I'm using my rasp, which has made the going even slower. I hope to have teeth left on the rasp at the end of this project. The wood is the hardest osage I have worked with, but it is also the pretties osage I have worked with. It is that dark rich orange/brown color that comes with age. I put string groves in the bow/stave yesterday but she still is not bending, so I'll wait to take a pic when she is bending on a tillering tree.
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I did some work on this the past few days. She looks more like a bow. Here are a couple pics. She is just starting to bend. Wants to spin when I try to put her on a tillering stick, so I need a little more work. One limb has a natural recurve and the other is straight. It does have a gradual recurve which starts at the center of the bow. The grain is straight enough that I can follow it on the belly to get a nice feathered appearance.
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Here is the overall bow and then a shot of the belly feathering.
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She is looking like a bow more everyday. First pic is the first time I pulled it on the tillering tree. Had to use a clamp to hold it on the tree. The other one is after working with a scraper today. No clamp.
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Good Morning,,, Happy Thanksgiving!!!
I have a possible problem developing with the bow. I have stress cracks running with the grain on the back of the bow. The plan for now is to fill them with Super Glue, LockTite 420, and then rawhide back the bow. This should help stabilize the back of the bow and hold everything together.
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Yep, superglue for sure and rawhide certainly won't hurt. Looking good so far with such a challenging stave(bunch of staves). :OK
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i remember a thread where Simon, had a spot like that , and he wrapped it with linen twine,, I tried it on one of my snakey bows and it worked nice,, rawhide and super glue sounds good too,, (SH)
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You should pay special attention to that spot where the crack runs off the side. I always wrap sinew around spots like that. Never had it fail. I'm sure linen would work too.
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The stresses in these area are hard to figure. A wrap is always an option but hard to tiller through the wrap. These kind of situations are
always a bit of a guess anyway. This is where experience kicks in. You guys are taking the bull by the horns! some folks make wood bows, some MAKE WOOD BOWS! This is what it"s all about. Making what works with what''s is availabe.
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From what I see, I would consider removing that check that is running out the side of the limb entirely. By following the grain it looks like you only need to take a little wood off the side, and those other checks would still remain in the limb.
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Thank you for all the good suggestions. This has turned out to be more of a challenge than I originally thought it would be. I am going to try to explain what I think is going on with the cracks that are showing up once the bow is nearing brace. Now it is still at a low brace on the long string, about 3" which means these cracks should only get worse as time goes on.
Here are a couple more pics that might help explain the problem area. I now have the handle area laid out on the back. This might need to change. Took a pic of the center line of the bow toward the twisted limb. Used a ruler to help show where the fades should go on a normal bow and where the problem area is at. The goal is to make the limb stiffer than usual in the problem area. The limb should look funny and appear stiff at brace. Lets see if I can pull it off.
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Here is clearer pic of the area that has the twist that is causing the problem. One pic is of the back, where the cracks are starting,,the other is the belly side of the same area.
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The next couple pics show the width of the back of the bow in the problem area. Not sure I have enough width to remove wood where the crack is going off the side of the bow.
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This pic is the overall bow. You can see the twist at the far end off the lower limb where is dog legs to the right.
So far i filled the cracks with super glue. Filled them while the bow was at low brace to ensure the glue flowed to the bottom of the cracks,,,unbraced the bow and left the glue seep out. I will clean this up with a scraper and then prep the back for the rawhide. I have not used rawhide before so this will be a new adventure in bow making. It fit right in with not making a bow from a fence post either. HaHa!!
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I would remove the crack on the edge, you have plenty of wood. One thing to remember; wood thickness is 7 times stronger than wood width. I add a tiny bit of thickness on my bows and can pull off very narrow but strong limb tips.
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Eric,,,Great advise.
I forgot about the ratio of thickness vs width. I leave my tips thicker and make them narrow but I have never tried it near the handle/fades.
I did nothing on the bow yesterday. I am going to brace it low, around 3", later today and see what happens. It looks like the limb that has the twist is straightening as I move the bow toward brace. That is why the cracks developed in the first place. Originally I was thinking of reducing some of the pressure on the side of the wood that is resisting the limb to straighten. But now I'm not sure. Some more indecision.
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Decision Made!!!! Starting work on some rawhide that I have. It is from a mule deer that a friend of mine shot the fall of 2017. She didn't want pack the hide out so I packed it. Scraped a little bit, salted it down and laid it in the sun to dry. Cut it into 2" stripes and stored it in a paper bag. Pulled it out yesterday and started getting it ready. Here are a couple pics of the process so far.
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Nice!
Can you provide a little detail on preparing the raw hide? Any lessons learned? Challenges?
I'm considering doing something similar with a few mule deer rawhide quarters I have salted in storage right now.
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burtonridr,,,There is a ton of info on how to process rawhide. But I found very little info on dry scraping, which is the method I used. Thanks to my bow building mentor, hunting & shooting partner, Brad, this turned into an easy project. Thanks Brad!! He told me a couple days ago that it was easy but I had to do the research and see what else was out there.
My last post explains what we did with the hide when it was fresh. From there I took the 2" strips and clamped them to my workmate. I used an old dog clipper and cut the hair off the hide as short as possible. Then I scraped the flesh side to try and get any remaining dry meat & gristle off to make the back as smooth as possible. This might have been easier done after rehydrating the rawhide to place on the bow. Ill let you know about that one. Then scrape the hair off using a knife like a scraper. Make sure and scrape with the grain,,the way the hair is lying. Scrape don't cut. I clamped both ends of the rawhide to do the scraping. I noticed when I got to far from the clamp I was scraping away from, the process became harder and the hide seemed to stretch. Another point is the shorter the hair, the easier it was to remove. Last bit of advice, keep your knife sharp. I used an Accu-Sharp to touch up the knife often. I call it my lazy way to sharpen my knife but it worked great for this process. Don't do this indoors where your wife/significant other can watch. I made a huge mess. Good thing I was outside so clean up was easy.
Here are a couple pics of the tools used and the rawhide ready for rehydration.
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,63406.0.html.This might help in the future for anyone wanting to make deer rawhide the dry scrape method way.It was on page 2 of primitive skills.
Hides can be dehaired after fleshing too the wet scraped way but the hide needs to be completely water soaked well.The hair/epidermis and all will come off.This is done without the use of lye or lime chemicals.Handy to use for smaller pieces instead of whole hides as smaller pieces can use up quite a bit of lacing to be laced into a larger frame meant for full sized deer or having to make special little frames for smaller pieces.Best dehaired on a good smooth fleshing beam with a cleanly fleshed hide to avoid any bumps you might encounter.Beware of old scars in the hide also.All of these things can make a hole in your hide if not careful when it catchs.A wooden home made fleshing beam will work well too.As long as it is smooth.I've seen 8" pvc pipes used also.A good fleshing blade is needed then too.Using the fleshing knife at the right angle with the right amount of pressure for taking strips of hair and epidermis off.
After smaller piece of hide is dehaired a person can lace it in a smaller frame or staple it out onto a piece of plywood or particle board to dry nice a flat to be cut up into anything you might want to use it for.
(https://i.imgur.com/QwBTlW7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uw9QV6l.jpg)
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If you get the bow working right up into the fades you can narrow it down quite a bit if need be. You get a lot of inches of draw near the center of the bow
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BowEd,,,Thank you for the link. I like your fleshing beam and fleshing knife. Did you make that knife? Giving others and myself options is always a good thing. Thank you.
Badger,,Thank you for the advise about removing wood near the handle. To be honest I was not sure the bow would hold together so I didn't want to commit to a handle location to early in the build. But now I think I'm good so I can start shaping the handle are.
Finished putting the rawhide on her today. The last couple steps I did to prep the bow and the rawhide are;
Scrubbed both the bow and the rawhide with a small pad that is meant for paint removal. It works great. Used the original, blue, dawn and hot, hot water. It works great as a degreaser. Changed out my dawn mixture a couple times and scrubbed until the water came off the bow clear.
Held the rawhide strip between my thumb and fore finger to get the water out. During this process the strip stretched out.
Checked the rawhide for fit and determined only 1 strip was needed.
Sized the back of the bow with TiteBond 2 and then did the same to the rawhide.
Put a 2nd glue layer onto the bow and positioned the rawhide to the bow.
A little tip Brad gave me was to tie the end of the rawhide in place with a string. That way it doesn't move as you work it down the back of the bow. It worked great.
Wrapped the bow with strips off tee shirt. Learned this tip from watching a Clay Hayes video. Hope he doesn't mind my mentioning it here. He has great videos that have been a big help during my learning curve.
Here are a couple pics.
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the hide has nice back story, it came from a mule deer up on the mountain last year,, Randy was guiding a good friend to a place he knew about and his friend shot the deer,, I was lucky and Randy gave me the skin,, I didnt have time to really properly process it at the time so I just put a bunch of salt on it and let it dry outside,, a few months later we cut it into strips and it turned out nice, so a piece of the mountain is going on the bow wood from Colorado,, I always love the way those things come togeter in bow making ,,, makes it even more special,,,I have quite a few pieces left for myself and have some projects planned for some rawhide as well,, )P(
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Unwrapped the bow last evening. I wasn't sure what I would find since this is the first time applying rawhide. I have some clean up to do but fo the most part it looks good. The white you see on the sides is where the tee shirt wraps stuck to the edges. Maybe a little heavy on the glue. I will let it dry for a couple days and then continue tillering. Trying to get it finished before Christmas.
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I let the rawhide dry for 2 days. Started the process of cleaning it up today. I have never worked with rawhide before so there was a bit of a learning curve for me. I thought it would looks like Brads finished bows that have rawhide on them. Nope!! Had to call him and ask what the trick was. Now I have it down and I'm happy with how it looks for now. The first one is of a mistake. New guys, you don't want to see the wood. The best way to describe what it looks like after sanding is the texture of suede, only hard. Here is a couple pics of the progress.
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I forgot to mention in my last post that the rawhide feels like suede after sanding it down. I had some spots that I wanted to smooth out a little and that is why I was sanding the back. I used 100 grit sandpaper.
If you look back a few posts The bow developed a couple cracks in the snaky area. So I left the rawhide over the edge in this area to help keep the cracks from getting worse.
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Here is the bow after working on it today. Finally got it braced at 5". There is a little twist from mid limb to the tip on both limbs. The twist in the limb is less with the bow braced. I'm hoping it will go away completely when at full draw. The string favors one side of the handle. It's telling me which limb it wants as the upper. Slow going. This wood is hard and I have been using a scrapper to remove it. I don't want to make a mistake now. I'll keep you posted.
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looking good when can we shoot it,,,, (=)
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Brad,,Good news. I will be by this week so we can shoot it.
I have been working a little on the bow each day. I have one limb that is making the going slow. It is the one that is twisted and it also has reflex. So I am being careful not to create a hinge in the limb and not get tricked by it looking stiff. Here are the pics of that limb. I hope you can see what I am talking about.
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The other thing I have been doing with this bow is leaving it strung for hours at a time. I left the bow strung at brace height the last couple nights in my unheated shed. Since it is winter, the humidity in my shed is around 50%. I think this helps stabilize the bow wood. I have done this to other bows I make. The reason being, I string my bow in the morning when I go hunting and leave it strung all day until dark. Usually 14 - 15 hours. All this rain or shine. I have been lucky so far. The only bow that follows the string is my first one. I have learned a lot since that one.
Here are the stats on the bow when i quite working on it today.
Draw: 16" Weight: 39.5 lbs
17" 42.5 lbs
18" 45 lbs
19" 48 lbs
20" 51 lbs
21" 54.5 lbs
22" 57 lbs
Here is what the tiller looks like so far. Let e know what you think.
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Forgot the most important stat that I like to get early in the process. I always start shooting my bows at 20 - 22" inches. I like to see how the bow is performing at a low draw length. I am shooting a 634 grain arrow and drawing it to 22". The result is 145 fps. I hope this will improve as the draw length increases.
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Do you have an unbraced picture?
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DC,,,,Thank you for asking. Here are a couple for now. I'm not sure they will show you much. I can take a better unbraced pic in the morning.
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Thanks, now the tiller looks good to me.
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that wood is a beautiful color,, it should look amazing with some finish on it,, :)
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Imagine how long that fence post waited for you to find that bow in it and bring that piece of wood back to life. Well done sir, on a very challenging fence post. What draw length are you hoping for?
Bjrogg
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Bjrogg,,,I am hoping to get a 28" draw out of it. But as slow as the scrapping is going, I might settle for less. I worked on it for about 3 hours today and it only dropped about 8 lbs in draw weight at the 22" draw length.
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Good Luck I'll be watching. (-P
Bjrogg
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my draw is about 25,, that should be enough,, :D
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Looks good to me, but I'm new to bow making - I guess you would tiller to the shooter, maybe slightly over. Good to see the wood repurposed!
Hawkdancer
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In one of my last posts I said that i like to leave my bows braced for a period of time to help stabilize the wood. And that I leave them strung all day while hunting. I know this goes against some of the thought process of a wooden bow losing cast if it remains strung for extended periods of time. Maybe I'm just lucky but it has worked for me. My hunting bow pulls 62 lbs and is as straight as the day I finished it. With no lose in weight.
Here is the bow after I left it braced in the back shed overnight. The first pic is of it braced and the 2nd is right after I unstrung it to start working on taking weight off.
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Looks good, nice bend. :)
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Fantastic job Randy! That bend looks really nice to me. All the work was worth it. Must feel good. )P(
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I made it over to Brad's this afternoon so he could shoot the bow. He said it shot nice.
The current specs on the bow are;
64.5" NTN
Braced @ 5"
60 lbs @ 24"
We shot it with my heavy tillering string, 18 strand dacron. I made it heavy so when I had an oops moment, lower limb about 10" up from the tip, I could still continue working. We used a 70 lb spine arrow, cut to about 28".
Here is a pic of Brad with the bow @ about 24". Brad, thanks for the feedback on the bow.
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Looks real good :)
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I got to shoot the fence post,, it came a long way and must have wanted to be a bow,, the arrow pass lined up with no heat bending,, even though it had quite a bit of character,,
seems the aged wood was really resistant to taking set,, and held a nice profile,with no heat treating,the mass of the bow felt nice as there was no hand shock at all,, osage can be a bit shocky if its overbuilt,, I had perfect arrow flight,,, and the bow was smooth to draw,, and felt balanced in my hand, the arrow came off my knuckle like a wisper,, so I felt the tiller was balanced,, very nice bow,,very nice job on the tiller ,, on a stave that was a bit challenging,,I hope to shoot it more at the longer draw,, the wood itself was such a nice rich gold,, it was beautiful,, amazing that it was hiding in there for so long,,I just love osage,, (-S I hope Randy gets to shoot at an elk with it,, (SH)
I added two pics before and after,, that tells the story,,bow makers have to be creative and use their imagination to see a bow in some of the wood we work on,, not for the faint of heart,, and will definitely develope a since of patience and determination,, :)
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I just read the whole post and all I can say is amazing job guys. Really amazing that you overcame all that and got a shooter with a good tiller. Congrats. Danny
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Danny,,Thanks for reading this post. It was a bit of a challenge getting it to this point but its still not finished. The goal is to extend the draw to at least 26" and if I feel brave to 28". Reducing the weight a bit, this getting old isn't for sissies. And then putting a nice finish and handle on.
We wanted to post a couple pics shooting it, which makes it a bow even though its not finished. I'll post pics when I am finished.
Hope has the sister stave to mine. He should be posting pics of his once work slows down and he has some time to work on it.
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Excellent work.
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worked on my fence post stave a bit today,, took it down to nice thick ring,, still have a few checks,,but I think they are ok,,this is from the same stave as Randys bow, so I am encourged it will bend,, I am going to put the rasp to it and get it to bend,, then I think I will sinew back it with some reflex,, I was gonna make a self bow,, but now my imagintion got the best of me,, and I have some sinew,, )P(
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Looking good, can't wait for more
DBar
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That's looking like a pretty nice stave Brad. How long is it?
Bjrogg
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Brad's stave is really nice. I know he will get a nice bow out of it.
There comes a point in the making of every bow were we have to make a decision. Actually, there are many of these points as we proceed. Will a bow come out of the stave we have to work with, like in the beginning of this post. Then how far do we push to make the bow what we want it to be? In the beginning I said I had no expectations concerning a style of bow and I didn't have a specific draw weight in mind that I had to hit.
In Dec. this bow had a draw weight of 60lbs @ 24". It shot very nice and had reasonable performance thru the chronograph. Well, my draw is closer to 29" so I wanted to try to get the bow to 26", then make a decision on continuing to increase the draw or just shoot it @ 26".
We have been having nice weather so I decide it was time to increase the draw and in turn reduce the draw weight. Put the bow on my tillering tree and started exercising the limbs to check the tiller was still good. Pulled it to about 20" and everything seemed fine. Decided to pull it a little further, around 23" and heard a funny sound. I've heard that sound before so I stopped and checked the bow closer. Here is what I found. Sorry, took the pics after clamping to see if the crack would close. You can see the crack on just under the clamps.
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Decision time. Do I try to fix it or do I give up on it and cut the good limb off??
I decided to fix it by putting a sinew wrap on the limb that is trying to twist apart. I can still cut the good limb off later if I need to. But this is a good opportunity to show how effective a sinew wrap can be. And that you don't need to give up on a perfectly good stave, which this is not a perfectly good stave. Checking back through history, many Native American bows had sinew wraps on them. Weather this was ceremonial or out of necessity to fix a problem, I don't know. But they used sinew for a long time for many different things.
Here are a couple pics of the sinew wrap. The fist ones that look horrible, are right after wrapping the sinew. The next couple are the following morning, today. I will let it cure for about a week before I do anything else to the bow.
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bjrogg,, my stave is 47 1/4 tip to tip,, I apologize for being so slow,, I will try to get it bending asap,,
Randy thanks for posting that,, looking good, I think it might work cause your split or crack is in the middle,, and also a weight reduction should ease some of the pressure on the bow as a whole,,
I will keep my fingers crossed the sinew will keep it together so I can shoot it at a longer draw,,
on my stave I am thinking I will sinew back it, and hope to get to 24 inches of draw,, with bend through the handle,, or maybe some short extensions,, spliced on the get to 24 inches,, i am pretty comfortable shooting at that draw,, I am going to try knox,, unflavored gelitan,,for my glue as suggested on another thread recently,,
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Well, I finally finished the bow made from an old fence post stave. Yes, it was a bit of a challenge at times and I had to make a few repairs along the way, but I think it came out nice. The specs on the bow are: 65" NTN with a draw weight of 55 lbs @ 26". I decided to stop at 26" because of the the top limb was trying to separate in a spot where it had some twist in it. You can see how I fixed this area with a sinew wrap, couple posts up on this page. Its holding together great. The wrap allows the area to bend a little but still lets it twist back to make it look normal when its pulled to 26".
This will drive Brad a little crazy but I had to shoot it through the chronograph. The reason for driving him crazy, I used my tillering string, 18 strands to see how it would perform. She shoots a solid 160 fps with a 525 grain arrow. Might do a little better with a normal string on it. Brad, I will have a decent string on it before I bring it by so you can shoot it. Then we will have an honest account of how it shoots.
But it does shoot where I was looking.
Pics of the bow in a few days after I get the finish on it and a handle stitched on and oh yeah, a string.
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Have you guys ever finished a bow and think wow this shoots nice? Me too. But there are other times when you think your finished and then something else happens. That's the case with this one. It had to try my patients once again. I guess to see if I could really get it shooting.
A little history since it has been a long time since this post started. My top limb does not lay flat. It is twisted almost 90 degrees off center. When drawing the bow, this limb twists all most back to straight. The limb tired to twist apart about mid-limb so I did a sinew wrap and its holding fine.
When I was shooting in the new string, after about 50 arrows the string started slipping off my top limb. The string continued to slip off when I shot multiple arrows. Somewhere between 5-10.Decide to do a sines wrap at the base of the nocks. I put a small piece of leather on the back under the sinew to create what I hoped would be a string stop, since the string would come off and slip down the limb. It worked great. After a couple hundred arrows today, the string didn't move.
Here is what the fix looks like.
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Here is how I got to the fix in the last post.
I put the strip of leather on the back. Then took sinew soaked in warm water and wrapped the area over the leather and around the nocks. Let it dry overnight. Then applied 3 coats of Superglue to the sinew.
I have mentioned a few times while running into problems with this bow that I use SuperGlue. Here is what I use. It very thin so it penetrates cracks deep into cracks and it works great on sinew. After gluing the sinew and letting it dry, I was able to use a rasp and sandpaper to smooth out the sinew.
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This will be the final post of this bow. I still need to take to Brad so he can shoot it and give his opinion of the bow. Then I need to show it to a couple other guys, one being the guy who gave me all the wood posts.
The specs on the bow are:
65" NTN
55lbs @ 26"
Shoots best at a brace height of 5.5"
Shoots a 616 gn arrow @ 150 fps
Shoots a 480 gn arrow @ 160
I put a 14 strand B50 flemish twist string on it
The next couple posts will be all pics so you can see as much of the bow as possible without actually touching it.
Thank you for following along on this journey. I hope some of the info here can help someone that doesn't have access to the perfect stave still make a nice bow that shoots.
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Here is a couple pics at full draw. The top limb has natural reflex and also is the one with the twist.
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Not sure what happened. Here is a couple more pics that show the handle, and how the string lines up thru the handle.
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You've earned your stripes on that one, way to stick with it.
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Perscverence for sure.well done