Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: JNystrom on October 21, 2018, 05:03:54 am
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Here is another warbow i finished the past summer. Its a bit knotty and also a "little" too heavy for me. Its elm from south Finland with deer antler nocks and heat treated "brutally". By which i mean the back is also heat treated, as you can see from the pictures ;D
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Some more pictures...
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And the full 30" draw.
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Beautiful and so knotty! It even has beginnings of branches. Do they slow the bow down because of extra mass? Can you tell us how did you make the layout and what are dimensions of cross section, it looks really thick.
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Thanks. Its 43x31mm in the handle. I don't think the branches slow it down quite at all. It's 155 pounds and it weights 1080 grams after all. Also almost all of the branches are in the inner limbs, which makes them effect even less. I like the appearence of them, so that is a big factor too. :D
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Wow, it is really big in cross section. Do you think you could have done it narrower and thinner or was it that particular piece of elm that dictated it? How did you make initial layout of the bow, is it gradual taper from parallel handle to the tips done freehand?
Btw, this bow looks so wild, I am imagining as a something wood elf would use. :D
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That looks great, nice work and it does look very middle earthy (-S
R.D.
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Thanks guys.
Wow, it is really big in cross section. Do you think you could have done it narrower and thinner or was it that particular piece of elm that dictated it? How did you make initial layout of the bow, is it gradual taper from parallel handle to the tips done freehand?
Btw, this bow looks so wild, I am imagining as a something wood elf would use. :D
Yep, its a pretty big lump of wood. Could use it as a club also! Sure it could have been anything i wanted, but i wanted the heaviest i could make out of it. Just a nice little test. Well this past summer i made 4 bows i'm not strong enough shoot (yet), so this might be enough for now. There was nothing special about the wood, quite ordinary elm, but free of pin knots. I just narrowed it down with smooth taper and then started to tiller. Just leave a bit of meat around the knots and everything is cool. I don't use any rulers or gauges in the making. It would just slow me down i think. Biggest problem i had with the nocks, i had left only really small pieces of deer antler(13mm thick in the base) so i really had to tweak the nocks to make them work. They are around 10mm thick in the string loop curve, which would be comfortable for a 100 pound bow, but not for a 155 pound bow. I broke two nocks in the making.
That looks great, nice work and it does look very middle earthy (-S
R.D.
Well thats ok, it stays in the shelf until a strong uruk hai appears and wants to shoot it. :D
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I should try the freehand method next time. I have been making bows until now exclusively with precise measurements. Of course I would allow the wood to dictate curves around "tricky" places but at the end I would have specific measurement plans for initial roughing out.
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If i only used measures i wouldn't have any bows. All my bow wood is crooked, knotted, wavy and reflex or deflexed, which prevents me from using exact measures. Bow making is about learning to adjust. Sure you can make bows out of planks with measures, but i haven't been too interested in it. Only measures i take is the length and handle dimension. These two measures will basically tell you how heavy the bow is and lets you configure the stress. For example now that i found out 43x31mm handle will make a 155# pound and it doesn't take too much set, i could go for 41x33mm in the next bow. It should be little bit heavier (~170-190#?), but actually about the same in mass.
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Even though my wood is not too "perfect" in shape, I managed always to use measurements when tracing initial layout and shaping bow to it. I don't use it for thickness taper though. But now I will try to do everything except length and handle by free hand, should save me time and maybe it will be more fun.
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Good job, your mass weight was spot on.
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I like it. gotta believe that many similar bows got the 'brutal heat treat" in more primitive times
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Thanks, i'm also happy with the mass. A lot less compared to that 140# osage bow.
Don't know about the heat treatment but it seems to hold itself just nicely, so yeah i don't think wood cares that much! This is not my first bow with a scorched back.
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How does you process looks like? I did first and only time heat treatment on some hazel bow and bow got brownish color after couple of minutes per lets say 1.5" of length. It seemed that it didn't anything regarding poundage increase or set decrease aside from nice smell.
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With a 77" bow that would be 102 minutes! 2min * (77"/ 1,5") = 102.
Most of the time i end up spendin 20-40 minutes heat treating a bow. 40 minutes if its as thick as this one. Basically you just want to get the wood hot through out. I share the same opinion about heat treating as Steve Gardner (Badger) for example, you just need to get the wood hot, quite nothing else matters. What i've heard Steve likes to move the heat gun all the time heating the whole limb at a time. I have my heat gun stationary on a handy wooden stand. Sometimes i have two heat guns which makes the process faster. While you don't need that black or brown color, just get the wood so hot through out that you cant comfortably touch the back of the bow, i don't care too much if i happen to scorch a little. Its more cosmetic in my opinion as anything else, maybe a even light brown color would be the most beautiful for my eye. Elm becomes really beautiful after heat treating and finish.
Here is a picture of one of my elm flight bow, quite dark heat treatment and tung oil. The other bow is a dull looking norwegian maple longbow. You can see the difference of color between these two woods .
Oh and about adding poundage, i think if you do the heat treatment early to a fresh wood, you get the most out of heat treating. It might just be you don't spend up enough time heat treating. Enough long is when you get as bored about it as me and make a wooden stand for your heat gun. :D
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Wow, that elm looks like tigers eye gemstone, 8),
(I'll be looking out for an elm stave :))
R.D.
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How does you process looks like? I did first and only time heat treatment on some hazel bow and bow got brownish color after couple of minutes per lets say 1.5" of length. It seemed that it didn't anything regarding poundage increase or set decrease aside from nice smell.
Yup, that's just too hot too quick....
If it takes less than about 45 mins per limb you are going too quick. It's more like a slow bake than a quick fry :)
This post shows my set up with a heat gun.
https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.com/2014/08/heat-treating-belly-billets.html (https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.com/2014/08/heat-treating-belly-billets.html)
Del
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Thanks JNystrom and Del for advice.
Del, how much you put heat gun away from bow and on what temperature? I have two fan speeds on mine.
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I move the heat back and forth over the whole limb. I think it gives it a chance to for the heat to penetrate and I also think it is much faster. I heat the belly until the back is too hot too touch. I only get a very slight change in color but don't worry if the belly browns a little. On a 77" bow I might break my heating up into 3rds.
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Thanks JNystrom and Del for advice.
Del, how much you put heat gun away from bow and on what temperature? I have two fan speeds on mine.
I have it on high about 3-4" away.
Watch this V short vid, it shows what adding side cheeks does in terms of spreading the heat along the bow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM1_A2A0_TI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM1_A2A0_TI)
Del
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Thank you Del. Is that low heat? Like I said my gun doesn't have heat modes, just two speeds, low and high.
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Thank you Del. Is that low heat? Like I said my gun doesn't have heat modes, just two speeds, low and high.
It's got a 2 position switch... that's on 2 which is hotter and faster speed. It's just a cheapo 2kw hot air gun.
Del
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Ok, so same as mine really then. Now I know what to do. Thanks again.