Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Sitapea on November 02, 2018, 08:35:11 am
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Hi!
I am trying to make a 68 inch juniper bow (Juniperus communis). It is my first bow. I think that i have seriously violated some growth rings (i will add pictures). Growth rings are only violated at tips of the bow (about 7 inches from both ends). Rest of the bow is hopefully fine.
So, my question is: If i back the bow with linen (maybe 2 layers) will it hold up? I dont have access to sinew or rawhide. Also, will simple wood glue work for glueing linen to wood? I do not have any titebond or similar glues available here.
https://imgur.com/Oq72sHI
https://imgur.com/8RrlRp2
I hope you can help me.
Greetings!
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I'm not that familiar with working juniper but I'd try to get to one growth ring along the entire back. If you add the linen backing only use 1 layer and yes, you can use simple wood glue like Elmer's or similar glue.
also, I'm gonna move this to bows so you will get more answers.
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2-3 layers of sinew is the perfect match for a juniper bow. That is how it was done by the native americans who worked with it all the time--it would be better, in my opinion than linen. with a couple layers of sinew, a minor grain violation shouldn't be an issue.
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Thanks for replying. I really would like to use sinew if only i could. What would be closest thing to sinew? Right now linen is something i can get easily and it looks nice. Also, what about fiberglass? I know it isnt primitive, but would it be better than linen?
This is my first bow so it doesnt need to be perfect, but it has to shoot and last.
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Oh know. The FG word isn't allowed around here. They might string you up.lol. I haven't tried it but I know others have used linen, silk and rawhide. Sinew would improve bows performance. The others will help protect it from lifting splinters but add weight and really not improve performance. Of course a bow that's still shooting performs better than one that's broken, so it might help performance anyway.
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Since it's your first bow I'd say back it with linen and start building. Learn how to see proper tiller and how to achieve it. You have the best help in the world right here on PA and we are all willing to help you on your way on this journey. :OK
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Thank you all for useful info!
I am going to get 1 growth ring along the back and then i will back it with linen.
Also, im working with different juniper, that grows in Estonia. It is probably not same wood.
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Sitapea. I was going to offer you some sinew but I saw where you lived and don't know if it's even legal to send you any. Good luck on your bow. Learn all you can it's all good, even the ones that don't turn out can teach you a lot. Sometimes more than the ones that do.
Bjrogg
PS any animals sinew will work and it's pretty easy to harvest it. Of course longer is better.
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If you do want sinew in the future, you might check with a local butcher to see if they could help you out.
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I think that sinew is too hard to work with (for now). If i mess up this bow i will try hazel or something similar in future.
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Your juniper is probably more like eastern red cedar, so the people that are familiar with that wood may be the best to comment, i have heard of cedar backed with a variety of hardwoods- but that could be beyond your skill level. Sisal (so) or flax toe are other options.
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I found that if i would make it one ring along the back then i will remove a lot of material from the whole bow just to fix violated tips. Also it would be thinner than i would like and rest of the bow is fine. If i would cut tips off it would be only 54-55 inches and that is short.
Are there any options?
Maybe i could glue some other wood on the back of the tips like small siyahs?
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use what you have and learn with it...if your juniper is anything like ours, a ring violation under the linen, should work just fine. I have used raw flax instead of sinew. Have fun.
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learn as much as you can from this bow. On the next one make sure you have a good, unblemished ring on the back before you do anything else. once you've done that draw out and cut out the shape then work towards floor tiller. Post oics along as you work so we can help you navigate a successful bow.
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Ok i will start building. I think that i have made my decision about the backing. I found some raw flax laying around so i will back the bow with that like with sinew.
When i finish this project i will post the outcome with pictures.
Thank you again.
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I think your mistaken with your juniper. juniperus communis grows in Canada and the rocky mountains at high altitude and is a shrub usually 2 feet tall or so. The domesticated version is also known as fitzer bush. If you found a 68" straight piece that would be beyond amazing. Depending on where you are if the heartwood is purple it's either ERC or rocky mt juniper. If it's brown, utah or western juniper.
Juniper is a conifer so you don't need to chase a ring but it dosnt hurt to get close. That is too long for a sinew backing unless you went for long stiff tips. Then you could just back the near handle bending section. Juniper is one of the best compression woods in the world. I'm replicating 2 bows for a museum in California. One is 40" long with a thick sinew backing making up more than 35" of the thickness. It started with 7" of reflex and full draw is 22". The other is 37" with 5" reflex and draws 21". Not many woods can do that. Its also weak in tension so without the backing it will explode if pushed.
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If your in the southwest there are a couple other not as well known junipers. One seed and Alligator.
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He lives in Estonia....a country in Northern Europe, borders the Baltic Sea and Gulf of Finland...
Chuck is an expert on making bows from Juniper and totally right about making it shorter. My sinew backed juniper is 60" for a 27-28" draw.
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It has purple heartwood and i will back it with raw flax.
Also these junipers can be found even longer in here and it is juniperus communis because we dont have any other species.
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I looked up common juniper in Northern Europe and found photos of great bow making trees in Finland. Nothing like ours over here. Good luck with your bow. Lets see it when it's done
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Yes, communis in Europe is a much larger tree for whatever reason. I am not sure why the North American variety likes to sprawl out so much. The Wiki page for it has some good visuals and says it is highly variable in shape. It would be interesting to compare the European variety to other Juniper from North America.
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I've never checked it's properties. Here rocky mt and Utah and western juniper are very similar besides color of heartwood. Eastern red cedar is a bit heavier. The most dense of these junipers. Let me know what you find
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I cant really compare it to anything because it is my first bow but when i finish the bow i will let you know how it goes.
For this bow, what would be good length and weight for arrows?
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Sitapea,
If you can, post pictures of your progress in building the bow. You will be able to see what you are doing and ask better questions if you need help. Remember to take your time and plan your steps in the build. The bowyer's on this site are very good and very helpful! Sometimes, you even get a bit of humor along with the advice. Good luck with your bow! Also, welcome aboard!
Hawkdancer
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Ok this is flax that i want to back my bow with. Would it work? Any tips? Is it ok to upload pictures like this?
https://imgur.com/a/8wJzeYy
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Also there is 95 grams of flax in that box and i will comb it. Is it enough?
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Now i have 60 grams of flax that is ready for glueing. Is it enough? Bow is about 1.5 inch wide and 66 inch long.
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If I remember correctly 60 grams should be enough. Since flax is so much stiffer than juniper, too much could lead to fretting, but too little means the back will work to much amd probably break. Tough call, maybe someone with more experiance could chime in.