Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: IrishJay on December 09, 2018, 02:37:09 pm
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I went out today and cut 3 trees, from left to right, apple, boxelder (ash maple), and hawthorn. The boxelder has a really night purple hue to the heartwood. Now I just have to get'em split and dried. )-w(
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That box elder has a neat look. You got more of that? Any pics of leaves that may be around still of it?
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Sleek, no leaves left where I am. Boxelder looks almost identical to white ash. In fact that's what thought it was until I cut it and saw the purple. The only real way to distinguish the two without cutting is during the leafy season the boxelder will have the "helicopters" on it as it is technically a species of maple.
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Box Elder is no bow wood and is quite different from Ash in many ways.
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I would direct my attention to taking care of the Apple. I haven't used it yet but it is a good bow wood from everything I've been told. I agree with Pat. The box elder I doubt would make a good bow wood and is quite different from white ash. I know people who like it for turning on a lathe though. I have know experience with the Hawthorn.
Bjrogg
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Hawthorne. Diffuse porous and a good bow wood. Make it as long as you can.
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Apple is astonishing, especially in how easy it is to bend with a touch of heat, its a brilliant bow wood. Hawthorn is easily the best wood I ever used for carving, some say it makes fabulous bows, some say its prone to breaking so go careful when you tiller it. All the super-hard woods are tricky to season, so seal the ends and leave a lot of extra length in them to cut off the inevitable shakes that develop in the ends - just seen a post on Arbtalk where someone sealed the ends of wood with bitumen and got zero shakes...
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Split and seal that apple quick or it will crack. Don't know where you live but over here almost all hawthorn has some kind of bug eating away at it so I would remove the bark to check before you put in in your stash. Both apple and hawthorne are in my whitewoods top three and make excellent bows!
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Nice score :)
Del
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Have fun. Never used any of those but heard that apple is good. Seal the ends. Jawge
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Yeah, I've read that the apple and the hawthorn are good, so I'm going to get them split out and debarked today and get them drying. I'm not sure what to do with the boxelder, like I said above I mistook it for ash when I cut it, so while it's not good bow wood, the purple in the heartwood is pretty cool, so I dont want to discard it. I may find some other wood working use for it l, or cut a board out of just the heartwood and eventually back it with some other wood (or the dirty word fiberglass) to make a bow. But, I need to get some working bows under my belt and develop my skills alot more before I even think about venturing down that road.
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Take extra care de-barking. The back is the bow. You don't have to chase a ring with those woods so invest the time saved there in getting a pristine natural back. Then shellac the back and ends. I feel shellac is best because you can remove it relatively easily.
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We have a lot less in the way of wood-boring insects over here than our American cousins so there's a lot less need to de-bark. Personally I prefer leaving the bark ON as that prevents longitudinal cracks developing in the top layers of the wood. If you get any of those then its all over. If you do de-bark then seal the stave all over
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Hawthorn cleaned up and debarked. It's a 60" stave. Thoughts? Am I at least moving in the right direction?
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That purple color in boxelder isn't the heartwood, it is a fungal infection:
https://www.plantmanagementnetwork.org/pub/php/research/redstain/ (https://www.plantmanagementnetwork.org/pub/php/research/redstain/) and the wood is the worst among the maples, it is not suitable for bowmaking, maybe you can carve something with it
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Apple roughed out and debarked.
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is the grain spiraled on that apple stave? and sawn straight, or is that the way you took the bark off?
I do like the hawthorn stave. I am not experienced with how apple and hawthorn dry, but I would leave them in an unheated space until they loose some substantial weight, that is if you are in a colder climate and it is heating season. I like to weight my staves when green and monitor weight drop and also look closely for checking, especially near the ends. you can get by loosing the free water the first few days, but when the free water is gone you have to go more slowly with the drying process
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The picture of the apple didnt turn our very well but the grain is straight.
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Question on the hawthorn stave. It has a bit of a crook at one end should I try to heat bend that out of it now while the wood still has some moisture in it or wait until it dries. Also, both limbs have some reflex to them, but it's not even so at some point I'll have to use some heat to even them out. Or should I hear bend them both straight? I'm trying to get 40-45lbs @29.5 inches from a 60" stage roughly 1 1/4" by 3/4" thick.
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/Bow%20Pics/Screenshot_20181211-094828_Gallery_zpsutcahnuy.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/Bow%20Pics/Screenshot_20181211-094828_Gallery_zpsutcahnuy.jpg.html)
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It will probably move some as it dries anyway so you really don't know at this point where it's going to end up but it wouldn't hurt to strap it to a 2x4 and try to pull a little of that crook out and to stop it from moving more. I haven't had a lot of success with trying to get them to stay in the new position but give it a shot.
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Does my target weight and draw length seem reasonable for the stave? What design would you guys recommend?
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For a narrow hawthorn stave at 60 inches of length with almost 30 inches of draw your only option is a bendy handle I guess.
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At 3/4 thick by 1 1/4 wide can I get away with a small shelf on a bendy handle?
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No. You'll need an added on shelf and you're really pushing the draw length relative to the stave length and quality of it.
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How would you go about doing an "add on shelf?"
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I wouldn't but most use a sliver of thick leather or wine cork glued in the appropriate spot.
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Gotcha, and then nothing glued to the belly, just let the stave br it's own handle?
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You can likewise build up the handle with a softer material to make it feel just like a bow with a stiff handle.
Stacked leather or Cork again, shaped appropriately and then covered with grip material of your choice.
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How about something soft like cotton wood?
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Soft as in no bend resistance, not soft as in softwood.
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Another nice walk in the woods netted a second, larger piece of hawthorn, and a piece of black cherry.
Plus I spooked a herd of about 10 doe as i was walking out.
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/Bow%20Pics/20181211_164555_zpstnqsimwl.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/Bow%20Pics/20181211_164555_zpstnqsimwl.jpg.html)
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should I try to heat bend that out of it now while the wood still has some moisture in it
bending thick wood is a lot harder than thin wood, but bending a tapered piece is harder than a piece of consistent dimension.
you could reduce it quite a bit in the green to make the drying go faster, but keep an eye towards where you know you want to make corrections once it is dry, so that you are not trying to bend a thin section sideways (or the hardway) as it is referred to sometimes.
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Just one question, what the heck is Ash Maple ??
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Ash maple is just a nickname for boxelder.
I made some decent progress with my smaller hawthorn stave. 60" inch bendy handle got to full 29.5" draw at 35lbs, before developing a hairline crack on the back mid handle. So it's another junker, but at least I got this one to fill draw a few times, and it didnt kersplode, so that's a plus. It was a small skinny stave which is why draw weight ended up so low, had to tiller it that far to get the draw length. Got to practice toasting the belly too.
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/Bow%20Pics/Screenshot_20181214-214737_Gallery_zpsp2wt6ayt.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/Bow%20Pics/Screenshot_20181214-214737_Gallery_zpsp2wt6ayt.jpg.html)
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/Bow%20Pics/20181214_214329_zps0jxeolpt.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/Bow%20Pics/20181214_214329_zps0jxeolpt.jpg.html)
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/Bow%20Pics/20181214_214418_zpsqn7jvcef.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/Bow%20Pics/20181214_214418_zpsqn7jvcef.jpg.html)
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How dry is that stave?
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Very dry, I put it in a makeshift kiln for a few days, and it was small so it dried fast.