Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Horn Bows => Topic started by: JNystrom on December 17, 2018, 02:58:51 pm
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In january i started my first hornbows. I decided to try to make a ottoman flightbow and managed to succeed with 1 out of 2. Other one come out twisted and delaminated, but the little longer one survived.
The bow is around 43" long and manages some 360yards with ~80# @27". I haven't actually measured the poundage, but i think 80 is close. Its not yet shot to its complete potential as i didn't have a way to dry it dryer than in 50% rh. Also siper should do wonders, with 24" arrow. I have couple different sipers on the make and im learning thumb drawing. The bow weights 350 grams and is 31mm wide at sal.
But as you can see, the shape is way off from a real flight bow. Thats why i'm making a bunch more bows, with a lot less reflexed kasans. I'll post some images and funny stuff on the way. Its nice to see the bows progressing a lot faster now that i have one under my belt. :BB
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Here is couple of pictures about the new bows. Also some highland horn that im about to test in one (atleast) of these bows.
Ok, i figured out how to post properly...
(https://files.anduck.net/apps/gallery/preview/28325?width=1700&height=1700&c=61d04e125552eaa9b1d5ca1def0afe83&requesttoken=CTlyeAh1CTMWF38ZGENabglQDgMeBwxbB0s0Z1YndgM%3D%3AlNK6z2sCqm8phh6%2BA4AIheu54zuT5h2Yff95p7MWxrg%3D)
(https://files.anduck.net/apps/gallery/preview/28322?width=1700&height=1700&c=6286f29b7ef97a5c5b0b41c719f777b4&requesttoken=CTlyeAh1CTMWF38ZGENabglQDgMeBwxbB0s0Z1YndgM%3D%3AlNK6z2sCqm8phh6%2BA4AIheu54zuT5h2Yff95p7MWxrg%3D)
(https://files.anduck.net/apps/gallery/preview/28318?width=1700&height=1700&c=d9ef9b16f4393a12e00ebf0f9e4f5efe&requesttoken=CTlyeAh1CTMWF38ZGENabglQDgMeBwxbB0s0Z1YndgM%3D%3AlNK6z2sCqm8phh6%2BA4AIheu54zuT5h2Yff95p7MWxrg%3D)
(https://files.anduck.net/apps/gallery/preview/28312?width=1700&height=1700&c=ca8a6a9fe6dc2190a43280a8b3f97e25&requesttoken=CTlyeAh1CTMWF38ZGENabglQDgMeBwxbB0s0Z1YndgM%3D%3AlNK6z2sCqm8phh6%2BA4AIheu54zuT5h2Yff95p7MWxrg%3D)
(https://files.anduck.net/apps/gallery/preview/28308?width=1700&height=1700&c=3a93deea1dc747f22780445ad916378e&requesttoken=CTlyeAh1CTMWF38ZGENabglQDgMeBwxbB0s0Z1YndgM%3D%3AlNK6z2sCqm8phh6%2BA4AIheu54zuT5h2Yff95p7MWxrg%3D)
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Those are sure nice straight grooves :)
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Thanks. And that tooth plane blade is perfect at making them! Never going back to cabinet scrapers, at least with straight glue line. Took maybe 25% of the time compared to cabinet scraper? Well my old scraper had a bit deeper grooving... This is pretty shallow at 1mm.
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Very nice, good looking bow. I hope you enjoy it.
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Now the bow got its last sinew layer. Profile is round with "stacked" sinew, so i think the bow is "sinirsek" style ottoman bow... We'll see if its as fast as the originals. :D
I got couple of nasty cracks in the tip bends, but i just glued them down and now covered with sinew.
Can't wait to open it already.
(https://files.anduck.net/apps/gallery/preview/28447?width=1700&height=1700&c=d96a6009c186d293ae622311fdba8698&requesttoken=TiBuHiMVAAYuEABbQEgvPX8FFhM7CCEIQFhwQDZ8dSk%3D%3A%2BWWPQRzvIjG20cCx7aYYMjXfsi1sU31shUEaVd4mfs0%3D)
(https://files.anduck.net/apps/gallery/preview/28443?width=1700&height=1700&c=e81cec61e4b67ace4ccb94fb2c6646a8&requesttoken=TiBuHiMVAAYuEABbQEgvPX8FFhM7CCEIQFhwQDZ8dSk%3D%3A%2BWWPQRzvIjG20cCx7aYYMjXfsi1sU31shUEaVd4mfs0%3D)
(https://files.anduck.net/apps/gallery/preview/28444?width=1700&height=1700&c=2f8cb2ee261912bfe69b199235902036&requesttoken=TiBuHiMVAAYuEABbQEgvPX8FFhM7CCEIQFhwQDZ8dSk%3D%3A%2BWWPQRzvIjG20cCx7aYYMjXfsi1sU31shUEaVd4mfs0%3D)
(https://files.anduck.net/apps/gallery/preview/28448?width=1700&height=1700&c=f9235daa36c3caa2fec0dc2e5b4b858c&requesttoken=TiBuHiMVAAYuEABbQEgvPX8FFhM7CCEIQFhwQDZ8dSk%3D%3A%2BWWPQRzvIjG20cCx7aYYMjXfsi1sU31shUEaVd4mfs0%3D)
(https://files.anduck.net/apps/gallery/preview/28445?width=1700&height=1700&c=f6ac43cf116238e4e98aedcf54604584&requesttoken=TiBuHiMVAAYuEABbQEgvPX8FFhM7CCEIQFhwQDZ8dSk%3D%3A%2BWWPQRzvIjG20cCx7aYYMjXfsi1sU31shUEaVd4mfs0%3D)
(https://files.anduck.net/apps/gallery/preview/28446?width=1700&height=1700&c=4f19b283fdba114605c9e619091ce5c6&requesttoken=TiBuHiMVAAYuEABbQEgvPX8FFhM7CCEIQFhwQDZ8dSk%3D%3A%2BWWPQRzvIjG20cCx7aYYMjXfsi1sU31shUEaVd4mfs0%3D)
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Ok, i changed my photo hosting to flickr so lets have a second go...
The bow is now seasoning with all sinew layers glued. 42" long weights 350g and thinnest spot in kasan eye is 12,4mm. Hoping for over 100 pounds.
I had to put a small sinew patch on the other limb, since it somehow got weaker and developed cracks in the horn belly. I still feel confident its good, after all we bend it the other way. :)
I'm also preparing some other bows to be made, with buffalo horn and also atleast one with highland cattle horn.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4809/39650019923_ba1572b5d9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23pJHxa)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7878/39650018893_240f18f7b0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23pJHep)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4894/45700573285_89a71d0fcb_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cCpofH)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7872/45700574035_ca85377459_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cCpotD)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4821/39650019553_d2729eb045_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23pJHqM)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7835/45700573805_756aa44dc2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cCpopF)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4882/46562952352_4815a140b5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dWBivj)
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Nice work shown JN.Nice clear pics.It seems your hooked.Those horn bows are just as addicting as any other bow.Hope the 100 pounder turns out good for you.That highland horn looks very nice too.
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That might be the case! Hah... Thanks.
I'm also very optimistic about the cow horn, it might be a bit softer than water buffalo, but i have it plenty since i know the local butcher house. 50 horns coming around these days.
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I got too anxious and opened the bow allready. Fixed a quick tiller and i really like the overall shape. It felt soft, like underweight because of the short curing time. So i'm quite confident it will pick up weight to tip 100-110 pounds at 28" of draw. After the brace i took a lot of wood from the kasans and got the weight to 327 grams. Now it should be good to wait until march or so, seasoning in pretzel shape when i heated and reflexed it again.
Obviously i'm out of work, so i started to size 3 more cores. These will become a bit narrower and heavier. Maybe 10,11,12mm cores? Should be 120-140-160 pounds then. I need a bow press i guess.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7815/31876570227_7fccbf0935_b.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4809/31876569627_5aa9db1f0b_b.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4882/39852737403_3ba5e2786f_b.jpg)
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Very Sweet,
and thanks for posting here at PA (I keep trying to follow along at the Finnish site, but your first language is not the easiest)
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Oh, thank you Willie, i'm not really expecting you to understand anything from our finnish forum! :D Though, i like the discourse platform more than this smf.
I processed the horns for the 3 new bows. Sadly my horns are pretty short and i need to join a ~3" piece on the middle to close the gap at handle. Its ok, since that area doesn't need to bend really and horn can end at mid kasan. Actually i haven't seen a lot of people having the horn end at mid kasan, even though it saves quite some mass and should benefit the flight bow.
One of the bows will have highlander horn, two others normal buffalo horn. Lengths will be 101cm, 106cm and 108cm (39,5", 41", 42").
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Here is some progress pictures. Actually i just sinewed a second layer, only the third left. I'll show some last phase pictures after that in the prezel shape.
The bows ended up with cores capable of 100 to 120 pounds. We'll see.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7839/39975381643_2c9382a901_b.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7840/39975379563_e52d9059e9_b.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7857/46025874535_79aa3ae868_b.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4839/46215242374_63eb0b81c7_b.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4868/46939778881_c36f91e433_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23UuheZ)
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Very nice Jere
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Those bows are super intriguing!
Once i get the know-how im gonna try to make a similar composite bow for horseback archery, so things can be as they should :)
Is there a particular bow "style" that you recommend for a beginner composite horn bowyer...and if so why?
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Thank you guys. They are, and soon comes the hardest part, to keep your hands off of them for the next months!
NorthHeart: Well you have the sheephornbow for horseback archery also! I think is best to choose the style or original bow as you would like, but only downscale the reflex and poundage.
Like the ottomans, they had really heavy bows in the 120-140 pounds range for flight and war, also heavily reflexed. This not only demands of a strong archer, but superb skills to glue the bow so that when you start to open the full circle it wont destroy into little pieces... I know i'm not that kind of super ottoman yet (:D) so i leave the tips a bit open, and aim lower with the poundage.
If you make any configuration bow with mild curves, reflex and poundage, you will succeed. If you want this kind of ottoman bow for shorter 26-28" draw, if not, choose some crimean tatar for 32" draw and so on. Then there are mongolian bows and such without this aggressive recurves. It's a endless sea of bows, whatever you like. :OK
If you are interested, i recommend you to buy Adam Karpowizc's book "Ottoman turkish bows, manufacture and design". It's a real goldmine for hornbowyers.
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I was wondering what wood are you using for the core? Its the one thing i am having real trouble sourcing
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I use maple as limbs and oak as a handle wood. This is norwegian maple, so not exactly sugar maple but pretty close in tightness.
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Thanks, I might get more luck with that - none of the UK suppliers I talked to (I've talked to a LOT of UK timber suppliers) can get more specific than 'hard maple' when I was asking for sugar maple
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Hmm, well the norwegian maple is a nordic thing. I don't know if it grows anywhere else than in scandinavia and Finland.
Basically the core only need to resist for shear forces and accept glue well. Maple is perfect for that, but if you don't have a heavy, top performer in your mind, you could go for ash, elm, rowan or such. Many of the 0.5sg woods could do. Using soft wood would maybe just make the bow take a little more set. Same thing as in a wood laminate bow. Actually elm and some other hard woods could be even more suitable for heavy heavy composites. I know some guys have made bows using birch and ash.
There is a old mongol bow found that had core made of willow. Well there are many willow species, so hard to say exactly more about it, just that many species of wood has been used if there wasn't any better.
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stuck
hardwood sorting in the US classifies maples into hard maple and soft maple, so if the wood was from there..... its most likely what we call sugar
https://www.woodworkerssource.com/shop/category/1_domestic_wood.html
the grading specs are
https://www.woodworkerssource.com/shop/grad.html
wood from Canada might also follow the north american standard NHLA, but these standards are voluntary, so you might have to see if your wood actually is graded
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Thanks Willie, yes, the maple is a US import, so that is really useful info, and if I remember right, some of the UK timber merchants do import Scandinavian timbers, so I think I'll have another ring-around and see if I can come up with something. Thanks both, am indebted to you.
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Found a supplier about an hour from me with two 4m-long, US import, hard maple boards who will put them to one side for me until I can get up there in a few weeks time - happy days !! Just hope they're quarter or rift-sawn.... :D
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Sounds good! Like i said, i'd try just about any "hard maple". ;D
I've made some progress with the bows, so now begins the hardest part of keeping your hands off of them! Well, i can at least shape the nocks while their curing....
This was the most i could dare to reflex them, on the next bow i might go tips-crossing reflex.
Sal's are 12,5mm to 13,4mm thick so there is possibility for 150 pound bow if one dares. :D
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7817/47051056011_0704928d0d_b.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7889/46327223334_21dc6a6e5e_b.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7927/32109396327_8f9fe66c79_b.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7808/46999066402_81554ae68b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eFJXHD)
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;)
Looks great !
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Looking great for sure, im staying tuned in. (-P
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Here is one flight bow that i just finished. This is the same bow that was braced on the first page.
Eventually it came out pretty light, 11,5mm thick sals, weight 300 grams and about 80-90 pounds. There was some cracks on the horn which i had to patch with sinew.
As you can see the kasan eye is pretty straight here but the kasans and tips are lighter than the previous bows. Also the bending sections are not as close to the handle as i was wishing. This will be fixed in the bows coming next. Also a mistake was made when i heat up the sals too much and lost quite a lot of reflex.
I just opened a new bow that has all these problems fixed, its almost tillered ready and with a lot more reflex and thickness in the limbs. Its also shorter. Just shows what you can do when you learn more and more. :)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7851/46617006034_f639b0b2f8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2e2okMm)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7806/47287832062_7bdb7b397a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2e2okMm) (https://flic.kr/p/2f3EuZm)
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Wow beautifully done.That is what I call real bow building.