Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: osage outlaw on January 12, 2019, 11:54:21 am
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A friend asked me to go on an elk hunt in Colorado next fall. We will both be using traditional archery equipment. I have absolutely zero experience or knowledge on elk hunting. Does anyone have any advice or suggestions? I'm trying to get a list of what kind of gear I'll need like camo, binos, packs, hiking equipment, etc. What kind of draw weight and arrow weight will I need? I know the terrain is rough out there. I am working on losing weight and getting in better shape.
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Dave, AKA dvshunter, elk hunted out there a year or two ago. Might want to see if you can contact him.
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Clint, I went 10yrs. in a row starting in about 1985 or so. Not sure how much things have changed. I am positive those mts didn't get any less steep. First off get in shape, thin air ain't kind to none of us flat landers. We went self guided and just backpacked in. Went to the same place so after a few yrs. and a ton of miles got so I knew the area real well. Had a great time every trip, remember the real work starts after one is down. Plan on 4 trips minimum to backpack one out unless ya got a horse or a lama or your in a place where ya can use motors. We were in a wilderness area and cheap so we humped out :o :o ;D I managed to kill 2 in ten yrs and should of had a few more, just way to much adrenaline for me control. As a group of 2 to 4 of us over 10 yrs killed 10 elk. One yr we went 3 for 4, other guy said he would have got one if he wasn't packin meat all the time. Also I would not even go unless I had 10 days , Just me. Thanks for taking me back to a very beautiful time in my life. The Rocky Mts. are the marrow of the world. The first yr I went I was in shape , the second yr I went I was pine knot tuff. Keep in touch and I,ll try and answer some of your questions. Bob
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I'll get in contact with Dave.
Thanks for the advice Bob. I live in a hilly area. I was planning on doing a lot of hiking this year with a weighted pack. We will have to set down and do some talking at the Classic. We are planning a 12 day trip.
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Clint , I always tried to get my pack weight under 40#. One of the things that I would change is to study my diet more, I always lost 15 to 20 # in 10 to 15 days. Burning way more calories then I could consume, Always thought I would get stronger but the Mts got there own ways, I just plain got weaker and wore down , loved every minute of it. I killed a 5x5 bull with a 48# recurve. Last time I was in the Flattops was in 2001 same time the World Trade Center went down, didn't know anything about it until a week after. Took my son that yr . and wished I would kept going back. Have ya picked an area yet? Bob
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We are looking at unit 74 or 42.
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Get in real good shape - then get in better shape! You will. Be working with at least 1/3 less oxygen in the air and a lot less humidity. Those are both pretty rugged areas, 42 not quite as bad and also right along I-70, so a bit easier to get to. If I remember correctly, both are about the 6,000-8,000' elevation level with a lot of straight up and straight down. You can get area maps that list public and private lands. Expect temperatures in September to be in the 80's during the day and below freezing at night, and dry conditions, unless there is an early blizzard! If we get a "normal" rainfall, and feed is available, the elk will likely be up high. Area 72 is in a severe drought right now, 42 isn't much better.
Good luck and good hunting! I should be getting some info from CPW soon regarding forecasts, so I will try to relay any pertinent info.
Hawkdancer
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Thank you Hawkdancer
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I went years ago and the day before season the government buzzed the herds with choppers to break them up. That screwed us good so I would call and see if the still do that. Prepare to go thtu all 4 seasons, bring hard candy to help with altitude sickness and bring your trout rod.
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I don't own a trout rod or any fly fishing gear JEB.
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We had lots of grey jays (like blue jays) come into camp and steal food so we tossed chip out for them and shot at them.
Never hit one but had fun shooting so bring some flu flus. The fish pole was just one of the things I brought as some of us did some trout fishing during the day. Make sure you have some good hiking boots. LL Bean rubber bottoms won't cut it.
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Clint, I had about 8 months to train for my trips out to Colorado with Kenneth(Little John) in 2006 and 2010. I hiked a lot with with my backpack increasing the weight a little as I went. I was fortunate to live at 2600' and could train up on the Blue ridge Parkway which is at 5000' and up to Black Balsam Knob at 6200'. Not the 9000' to 10,000' we hunted at but it was an advantage. By the time I left for Colorado I was carrying about 60# in my backpack. I think we had about 40# in our backpacks when we went in. Kenneth had hauled in our camping stuff on horseback the 2 weekends before so that was a big help also. I think we hiked in about 4 miles from 10,000' down to 9000' the first trip and 9500' the second trip. Depending on your elevation, weather and temps cane change quickly in the mountains.
Wool is your best bet for comfortable cloths even if it isn't all that cold. We had moderate temps with afternoon showers but our trips were in late August and early September. I bought German Army surplus wool pants cheap from Cabellas or Sportsman's Guild.
Water purification is important if you can't carry potable water. Hand pump water purification is reasonable and easily packed. I have a hand pump you welcome to use. All you'll have to do is replace the filter.
We carried homemade granola that was my mid day(actually all day snack) meal. Lots of calories and tastes good.
On our 2nd trip, Kenneth set up his wall tent with a small wood stove. That helped a lot to dry wet cloths.
If I think of other things I'll let you know.
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Thanks guys. I've been thinking about packing food and snacks. I planned on making a lot of deer jerkey. Good idea on the flu flu arrows JEB. I have a few pair of Keen hiking boots to take. They are the most comfortable that I've found. I hadn't thought about a water filtration system Pat. I'll look into those.
I've been researching binos, tents, packs, and all kinds of other supplies I'll need. Looks like I better start picking up some overtime to pay for all of these goodies. Hiking equipment is expensive. Some of the back packs I looked at were well over $300.
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Along with all the fitness stuff, learn to call, and practice a lot, and use a diaphram call. Once I started elk hunting with a bow, I don’t even archery deer hunt anymore unless an elk is killed, then the rest of the season can be for deer. Elk hunting is so much more exciting. You are going to have an awesome time, and good luck.
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Don’t skimp on the pack. If it’s not comfortable, your days can be miserable.
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Clint, if you want to borrow my water filter pump I can bring it to the Classic. Like I said, all you'll need is a new filter.
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Thanks Pat. The guy I'm going with has one and said he didn't even need it last year. We should be OK.
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:OK
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We drove to 8000 and set up camp and day hiked looking for the elk. Aas I mentioned the government buzzed the herds a day or two before our opener to break them up for hunting season. Not sure why they did it before bow season but they did. As a result we had a hard time finding the elk. We had a base camp so it was a little easier than backpacking in and camping. Keep an eye out on craigslist for equipment, tent, pack etc. You will want a tent that the fly goes almost to the ground. They do a better job in keeping the rain and wind out. I have a hand full of tents that we have used over the years and Mountain Hardware was the most durable. I have a Kelty exterior framed back pack that we used when we were in back packing mode. I liked the exterior framed packs because you can hang things like socks, bandana's and skivies on the outside to dry as you are hiking. As mentioned, the farther you hike in the farther and many trips to carry your game out.
While in camp one day a hunter drove in and introduced himself and asked to camp with us. We were glad to say yes. His last name was Miller and at the time he held the record for largest ram taken with a bow and arrow. I have his photo on the back of an archery magazine. if I remember right he was using a Darton compound at the time. (not at home to confirm this). He was also having a hard time finding the elk.
A list of things that I can think of that will help:
2 1/2 gallon zip lock bags ( use these to keep your clothing dry, do your laundry and fill with warm water to shower) Lay your t-shirt, skivies and socks out. roll them up and then stick the roll in the 2 1/5 gallon zip lock bag and roll that up. Use a rubber band on each end. You just water proofed your dry clothing
Very small container of wool lite. To wash your clothes in the zip locks, Uses cold water. Fill bags with water, few drops of wool lite and swish around and let clothing sit for a time. rinse and hang. Wife and I used this technique on our cross country bicycle trip. worked great.
small camp stove with small bottle propane (back packer size) no worries about liquid spilling or leaking and smelling up your hunting clothes.
10' by 10' piece of Tyvek building material. Light, folds small and helps keep you dry as a tarp because it is going to rain and snow.
These are some of the odd things that we use on back packing, hunting a cycling trips that are light and was glad that we had them. If I can think of other things I will add them.
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This is a picture of where we will be hunting. I can't wait to see that view in person.
(https://i.imgur.com/82BOrQT.jpg)
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Thanks for the advice Jeb. I planned on taking a large heavy duty tarp for base camp. Paracord is on my list too. We are planning on operating out of a base camp but may stay a night or two on the mountain if we get on some elk. We are getting either sex tags.
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Daughter gonna get you running?
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Clint, Jeb just made me remember a very very light must have item. Chapstix. High altitude will dry your lips out something awful. Stay hydrated, real important. Country looks great. A lot of the cows are bigger than the bulls an in my opinion eat way better ;D Bob
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Beautiful country. I don't have any advice for you, but I'm excited you get to experience what looks to be a dream hunt.
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Knoll, she has been coaching me on a fitness plan.
Bob, chapstick is on my list of necessities.
Thanks Aaron. I'll take a lot of pictures and share the experience.
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That is one sweet view! Good luck. Elk hunting is on my life list, but I have to wait until I retire to do it (September is not a month you can take off in the teaching bidness). Good excuse to stay in shape I suppose...
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Those views start as soon as you start up the canyons! My guess is those snow covered ridges are about 30-40 miles off! An elk hunt is not a thing to tackle by yourself, unless you can set up in a very accessible place, and you have a power winch on the truck! A come along at the least! Even a quartered cow can go close to 300# or more , a big bull up to 500! Remember, too, the "elk math" theory applies - "one guy 33, and one guy 66 does not equal 3 guys 33"! >:D. Been there - done that! Took us 2 days to get a bull out 1/2 mile from the road, mostly up hill! Packing in, expect to work hard, both ways! Have a safe and successful hunt!
Hawkdancer
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Travel size Gold Bond powder. And its not for your feet but your nether regions. You will be glad you brought it. Wished I was home to go over my list but I am not. If it is OK I will post as I think.
Grab a good stick for hiking when you get there. For the down hills as much as the up hills.
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I know what you mean about the powder JEB. I was looking at those trekking poles that fold up and store in your pack when you don't need them.
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Whos doing the cooking Clint?
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Whos doing the cooking Clint?
Probably both of us Bill. I plan on taking some easy meals. Might freeze enough to get through the first several days with minimal cooking. I will make a bunch of deer jerky to snack on during the day.
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I'm thinking Bill is suggesting he come along as chief cook and bottle washer. Have fun Clint. It's on my bucket list for sure. My brother has been Elk hunting at least four times. He loves it. He has three nice mounts. I'd have to take a cow or small bull. I don't have a wall big enough to put one of those mounts. He is in much better shape than I am. He's also almost ten years younger. Come to think of it I was in much better shape ten years ago. The thin air can really get to you.
Bjrogg
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BJ :OK
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I've spent plenty of time living off of very little in the woods and I'll tell you what Ready-to-Eat meals are the way to go. Good ones from REI will cost you six seven bucks a piece but most are packed full of calories and all you need to do is boil water. You eat right out of the pouch your garbage is minimal and the only thing you got to clean off as your spoon. We used to pack food to bring into the Boundary Waters but after discovering those we stopped. All you need to do it's bring a small Kettle to boil water in. There's a pretty vest selection of different stuff. Honestly most of them are really good and even better after hiking all day and all you got to do is boil some water
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On second thought you may not have a vast selection to choose from. Most of them contain vegetables besides corn
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So Paul, you are saying I'm going to starve to death correct? ;D
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Seriously though check them out. Buy a couple and try them at home. You cannot beat the convenience
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I ate a lot of MRE and did better calorie wise than anything else, I liked most of them but some don't like them at all. I also ate a lot c rats in the Nam and MRE are delicious compared to them. Bob
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I don't know Bob, I kind of like ham and m!!!!!ers I got in c rats. Lol
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Can't comment on the hunting techniques as I've only been drawn for elk once so far. But I can comment on gear.
Highly recommend a Jetboil if you're doing freeze dried food or wanting a hot beverage. Great for quick ramen noodles or instant oatmesl packs, too. They'll boil a pint of water in just a couple of mins.
MSR Pocket Rocket has served me well for quick heating but hard to turn down the heat for simmering. Extreme light weight and takes up little space.
I really like my Sierra Stove for more extended cooking. Its a little on the heavy side, but when you take in to account fuel bottles or propane it works out lighter than alot of stoves. It uses a AA battery and anything organic you pick up in the woods...pine cones, twigs, charcoal, anything and gets forging hot. A battery lasts me about 25 hours, try to carrh 25 hours worth of cooking propane or white gas on your back.
I make up little packets of peanut butter with my foodsaver. Each one about a quarter cup. I have a hard time getting enough calories and often don't even feel hungry beyond my normal 2000 calories or so per day. I also like to add butter to everything for some extra calories and even lard where appropriate. I've been known to make grits with lard or bacon grease and then put butter on top. Spam is a great source of calories, protein, and sodium if you're sweating alot...used to eat it cold out of the can when I was on field ops in 29 Palms but generally prefer it cooked. Something else that makes a great high energy snack are those no bake oatmeal and chocolate cookies.
For quick water purification I like to carry along a Sawyer mini purifier. Just fill up the bag amd drink thru the filter, can back flush it easy enough. Sometimes I use a Steripen if drinking from a clear mountain stream. I personally lab tested it when I worked for the UCI BioChem Dept, and it works well. For more bulk water I use the MSR Miniworks, it doesn't produce as much water as a Katadyne for the same amount of pumping, but it screws on to a Nalgene so you don't have to worry about messing with a second hose (had a buddy take a dunk in a creek at Yosemite trying to manage two hoses :)) It's also much cheaper.
Can't say enough about milspec ponchos and poncho liner. Fairly light weight, and if used right makes a tolerable shelter in addition to rain protection.
I've given up on alkaline powered headlamps and flashlights. Current favorite is a 18650 lithium powered headlamp. With a full charge it can literally go two full nights, nonstop on one battery set on medium. YMMV based on mAh and battery manufacturers.
For easy around the base camp food, experiment with foodsaver bags if you haven't already. You can fill them with leftovers building up s supply in the freezer, or make and freeze batches of whatever you like. Put them in the ice chest frozen and they'll stay that way for a while extending your ice or keeping other things cold. You can boil right in the bag, and once heated, eat from the bag like an MRE. No fuss, no cleanup. Plus you get to eat what you like and not over priced over processed food. I've even done eggs by scrambling, pour in bag in liquid state, add shteddrd cheese, salsa, hot sauce, whatever and they turn out alright cooked in the bag. If not thawed prior, they will take a little bit to cook through in s pot of boiling water...but the no diswashing aspect makes up for it. Edit: you do have to be csreful not to puncture or rip the bags, or it will leak or take on water when you boil.
Hope you find some nugget in this long winded post and best of luck.
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Clint, just get serious and shoot a nice cow and eat elk all week . Jeb, these kids don't have a clue about Ham and M------ers. Talk about a flashback ugggh.
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Hey, wait!, we gave our LT a whole case of Ham & MFs one time! Mickey likes It! >:D.
Lot's of good equipment info going on! MREs aren't as good as LRRPs, but are easier to find! Any high fat/protein foods are good. I picked up some new info on this thread, but I don't plan to be more than a half mile from the vehicle!! I will be researching the stuff that has been mentioned! I would rate the water filters, fire starters, and portable tarps very high on the list. Get a Small game license and you may be able to get a grouse, as well. Wool and polypropylene fabric, goretex, make sure your. Boots fit well and are broken in!
If you are passing through Denver and laying over, let me know, and maybe we can get together for an appropriate beverage!
Hawkdancer
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It will be a great adventure Clint. It is worth the trip if you come home with meat our not. Beautiful country that us flat Lander's don't see often. We seen a few elk on our trip but no shots, Beau did get a Mule deer doe but it would have been a great trip either way. I know you will love it. Just get in shape so you can enjoy. :) Lots of things to look at if you are physically to go look. Good advice on equipment above. We set up a nice base camp that we could drive to and then after a day on to , to get acclimated we spike camped in 3 or 4 miles. That made things nicer. We would stay in spike camp 3 or 4 days then come back to base camp to clean up and relax, also had a place easy to take care of any game we had taken, plus done some fishing. :) Fishing comes with the tag, at least ours did. :)
Pappy
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Those combination "Sportman's" tags were neat! Everything is separate now, except for the small game and fishing combo. I don't remember exactly when the switch was made.
Hawkdancer
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I just went in 2018 and my Elk and Mule deer tag came with fishing included. I was in White River east of Meeker. ???
Pappy
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Well I started conditioning today. I followed our creek bed to the bottom of the hill and then hiked back up the road. It's a fairly steep hill and about a mile long. I kept a good pace and felt really good when I was done. I'm going to keep doing this and will add more distance to the hike. Then I plan on adding weight to a pack once I get one.
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Well, when you think you're in shape bring a couple of staves to work on and come sleep on my couch for a week ;D
The Pajarito Plateau my house is on on is about 7500 feet with the mountains in the background peaking at just over 11200 feet at the caldera (according to wikipedia). We'll get your hemoglobin up where you want it.
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Guess I better re-read my brochure! I'm supposed to know all that stuff! That is area 23, 24? White River NF, Oak Ridge SWA. We went there one time. Found out our Cow tags were for another area, some other folks got a 5 point bull just off he main road. Nice country if it isn't a blizzard! Good fishing in Lake Avery, Ihear.
Hawkdancer
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We hunted 24 but could hunt 23 and 30 I think it was. Ya good fishing on White river and also Big Fish lake where we spike camped some. We had cow or bull , the bull had to have at least 4 on one side or a 5 inch brow, mule deer we could kill doe or any buck with no restrictions on rack. Glad to hear you are starting early Clint if you stay with it you should be ready for sure. :)
Pappy
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Pappy, unit 24 was my ole stomping grounds, Went in at the South Fork of the White River. All wilderness area in the Flat Tops, Had some really great times in the yrs that I went, The primitive camping was great and killing elk is just frosting on the cake. We mainly hunted in the 9000 to 10000' That will get your lungs to workin seeing that I live at about 1500'. Clint, pace yourself so as not to burn out on the workouts, You want to peak just when the season starts, Push to hard and nagging injurys set ya back. Bob
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Don't skimp on the backpack! I suggest going to a store like REI, or a mountain shop. I still have the Vector 1 rucksack that I bought when I was in Special Forces in the early 80's, it fit well and could hold a lot more than I could carry! I could probably still make 35# on the flat ground! Add weight gradually!
Hawkdancer
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I hiked 3 miles today. I went to the very bottom of the hill and then turned around and headed uphill. I used my car GPS to track my distance and time. I cut the head off my 3 & 5 woods and used the shafts as a trekking poles. I couldn't hit those clubs straight anyway. I'll get more use out of them this way. I'll get a set of collapsible poles for the trip.
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You golf but don't fish? What's up with that, lol. I tried golf once but I cussed too much.
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I started playing golf when I was about 9 years old. I play about twice a year now. I used to fish a lot too. Just not fly fishing.
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Never been able to figure out why those folks are smacking little white balls on my running course! Haven 't fly fished in a long time, my split bamboo fly rod disappeared! Done a big of spinning rod stuff, though! Here, fishy, here, fishy! )F( >:D!
Hawkdancer
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I hiked 3 miles today. I went to the very bottom of the hill and then turned around and headed uphill. I used my car GPS to track my distance and time. I cut the head off my 3 & 5 woods and used the shafts as a trekking poles. I couldn't hit those clubs straight anyway. I'll get more use out of them this way. I'll get a set of collapsible poles for the trip.
I sure hope you don't peak to early. ;D
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I'll try not to Bill. Right now I'm just really excited about going and I'm trying to take advantage of decent weather. I won't be doing anything outside for the next few days that's for sure. (S)
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I only wet fly fish with spinning gear. We caught some trout in the stream one afternoon. Made for a good lunch. It was just a thought although it would cut into knap time. You will see what I mean by that,lol. You will have a great time. I did the two years I went out there. If I was younger and my wife was healthy I would plan a other trip.
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Ya supposed to get some White stuff Clint O:) ? Be careful Bud (S) - Bob.
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I checked a big item off my equipment list. I picked up this military issue Molle II rucksack for $30 from a local guy selling it. It's in good shape and fits me well. I ordered 2 sustainment pouches that connect to the sides for $18. I can get a lot of accessories and repair parts are available if needed. This thing should be plenty big enough for an overnight stay on the mountain.
(https://i.imgur.com/fLxfMbs.jpg)
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You did real good.
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Nice buy Clint, Beau had one like that and I have to older green one with the aluminum frame, tough and worked well. I carried mine in 1989 the first trip and still working great 30 years later, it is probably a little heavier that the newer models. Yes Bob that is right where we were, camped by Big fish lake for a few nights and then up in Bolder for several more. Base camp in the camp ground before you cross over White river and enter White River Flat top area. We went into the flat top a couple of days, about 11,400 I think was the highest we were and we come from 500 ASL so quite a difference. I am excited for you Clint, you will love it. We plan on going back in 2020 good Lord willing. :)
Pappy
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I would rather it be the darker camo pattern instead of the desert pattern Pappy. Oh well, maybe I'll darken it up with some blood from an elk quarter. This is my second military bag. I like how sturdy they are.
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Actually where we were that camo was great, I wore the paints in that pattern a lot. Blends well unless you are in the dark timber. :)
Pappy
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That camo should do you well! A few blood/dark blotches here and there won't hurt. That is about 20-30 years from my time humping a ruck, but a good rig! You will notice that the background changes quickly! You can match perfectly here and 10 yards later you stick out like a sore thumb! The other problem is the deer and elk are color blind! They detect movement and noise and shapes very well! Good luck! Let me know when you plan to come through!
Hawkdancer
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I’m just seeing this post so sorry about being late to the party. For the last 3 years I’ve hunted in area 78. I’m going again this year. I keep a very detailed pack list in xl that I can send you. Let me know if you are interested.
I go for 7 days and tent/bivy 5 miles from the nearest trailhead, so packing light and efficient is essential.
I didn’t read all the post but I saw that you are already starting to train, so you are doing it right.
I’m normally in the best shape of my life right before the trip, and as soon as I get up there I wish I had done more. Each year I train harder than the year before because I know how brutal it is.
Anyway, let me know if I can help you in any way.
Ben
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Good luck to everyone coming in to hunt! It is just about time for the Big Game brochure to come out! Hope you Get your first Choice in the draw! Train hard - but Stay healthy! Perhaps we can link up for an appropriate beverage!
Hawkdancer
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Get ya a cow call, stop blowing it when you get in with them. Don’t forget to take your ivory teeth. Something about elk, they will hear ya 3 times, see ya twice, but will only smell ya once. Hunt the wind. Good Luck! And have a blast. Ed.
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I'm really excited for you Clint. I've always thought about it but never done it. Can't wait to see and hear your report. Danny
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Train hard before you go, but don't exert yourself too much while there.
Those mountains are steeper than in the east! And the lack of oxygen at higher elevation makes it more so. If your heart and lungs have been working hard training for it, you will be so much better off.
Altitude sickness is something to really consider. It can ruin your trip or worse. Don't exert yourself the first couple days to help acclimate. And remember that the only real cure for altitude sickness is to go to lower elevation. On one trip, my cousin had it so bad that he was delirious, hallucinating, and vomiting. I had to pack up camp by myself to get us off the mountain. We were able to go back up the mountain a couple days later, then I got altitude sickness, not nearly as bad as my cousin had it, but again we had to pack up camp and drive back to town and get a motel room.
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Thanks for the advice. I've been training regularly and can already tell I'm in better shape. I've lost 49 lbs so far.
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we carried a pocket full of hard candy for altitude sickness. Might be the sugar in the candy that helped us.
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That's some pretty impressive weight loss Clint. What all are you doing to accomplish that?
Looking forward to hearing about you hunt.
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Lots of hiking and biking and a lot less food.
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Wow Clint, probably not going to even recognize you. Sure hope you have a good time. The last time I was in the mountains that high I was still flying a lot. The altitude didn't bother me to much but my wife had a hard time with it. You will definitely notice it. The views aren't the only thing that will take your breath away.
Bjrogg