Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Flight Bows => Topic started by: Sagebrush on March 03, 2019, 09:00:15 am
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Hello all, Long time follower but first time posting a thread.
Last year I was having lunch in a small burger joint and I looked on the wall to find all of these world record flight shooting Awards and bows. When I asked about them a very nice older gentleman came out from behind the counter and talked with me for a bit. He didn't seem interested in primitive bow making but he loved glass and Flight shooting. This began my dalliance with flight shooting. I didn't understand until recently that Larry Hatfield was a legend. Small world I guess.
After three decades of shooting I am now back where I started: flinging arrows into the sky. My question to you all is about arrows. I have a good deal of ocean spray and it seems that it is dense, sinks in water, is near unbreakable and would be a good candidate. I could build cedar, osier, and pine. I am beginning to build 23 to 25 inch primitive class flight arrows. Any experiment directing thoughts???
Thank you all for your thoughts and direction over the years.
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I think ocean spray would be an excellent candidate for flight arrows. Stiffness is a major issue once you get down to small diameters. I believe ocean spray is very stiff. If you can come up with one about 1/4" diameter and around 250 grains or less that is still stiff enough you should be good to go.
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Thanks! I will get started and post some updates when my field has less than 27 inches of snow. I appreciate the help. Oh one more thought... I heat treat my ocean spray bows, should I do the same for the arrows? Thanks again.
D
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I like my OS and and have been thinking the same thing about some of the smaller diameter shafts. Let us know how they do. Good Luck! Ed
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I cut some OS a couple years ago and was not fond of the pith. Needless to say I dont think I'll use OS for shafts. Not sure what you guys think.
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so would a pith that could be reamed out yield a hollow arrow? strength with a little less weight?
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The pithy core in the shafts is between 1/32 and 1/8 of an inch. I was shocked that I could get a 12 inch drill bit started. I'm not sure I'll be able to pull it off without the infamous O.S. drying cracks. We shall see...
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so would a pith that could be reamed out yield a hollow arrow? strength with a little less weight?
I've been thinking about strength with a little less weight. Is light and stiff the objective? If so why do the flight guys use dense wood? Is it the smaller diameter for the same thickness? Is a tube always stiffer than a solid rod of the same weight? I made a 24" 1/8" dia drill bit and tried to drill out the OS pith. No joy. It kept coming through the side no matter how straight the OS was. I think the nodes were steering the drill bit. The pith would be substantially lighter than the wood, I think, so maybe there's not much to be gained by drilling them. First year OS have a bigger pith so there might be something there to think about. Not sure about the quality of first year wood though.
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I cut some OS a couple years ago and was not fond of the pith. Needless to say I dont think I'll use OS for shafts. Not sure what you guys think.
What didn't you like about the pith?
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I’ve found the younger shoots seem to have more pith, some of the older small diameter shafts seem to have less pith & more wood. I’m also wondering the way OS likes heat in bow form, would heat help stiffen the arrow shafts as well? Ed
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don
Is a tube always stiffer than a solid rod of the same weight?
weight for weight, yes because it will be a slightly larger diameter, where it counts more for stiffness
the question is whether for 2 same stiffness arrows, will the slightly larger dia arrow be better for for being a bit lighter?
I have reamed bamboo with a a few applications of a red hot wire, something softer might be able to follow the pith better
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I was going to do some testing... but the pith weighs nothing so it is effectively hollow as is. I was also going to try to make some solid shafts from larger branches that I've dried. In 90 meter shooting for FITA small dense arrows maintained downrange velocity and were less affected by wind. I.E. an ACE/x10 versus a larger diameter aluminium. This was my thought process at least.
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don
Is a tube always stiffer than a solid rod of the same weight?
weight for weight, yes because it will be a slightly larger diameter, where it counts more for stiffness
the question is whether for 2 same stiffness arrows, will the slightly larger dia arrow be better for for being a bit lighter?
I have reamed bamboo with a a few applications of a red hot wire, something softer might be able to follow the pith better
First priority is getting the right arrow stiffness so it is tuned to the bow. Larger diameter is worse due to higher drag, but lower mass gives higher speed to fight gravity. These compromises are what keeps it interesting. If the draw weight of the bow is high and the arrow can be short, then it is usually better to go with a higher density arrow shaft material.
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First priority is getting the right arrow stiffness so it is tuned to the bow.
I was getting the impression that you could get a little liberal with the spine in flight arrows. Now I'm thinking that the only reason you can go to a lighter spine is because you have little or no tip weight. Am I right?
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I cut some OS a couple years ago and was not fond of the pith. Needless to say I dont think I'll use OS for shafts. Not sure what you guys think.
What didn't you like about the pith?
I dont trust a soft core it can collapse if attaching points and and making nocks. Been thar dun that....! I'm happy with true doweling.
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I drill it out and glue in 1-2" of bamboo skewer. I do the same with bamboo shafts.
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I shall try loading it. Good thought. Thanks!
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I found a piece of OS under my tablesaw that was 29" long and pretty straight so I cut a 3/8x3/8" blank. Planed it in the shooting board and chucked it up in my drill. Ran it back and forth on the belt sander until it spined 50# approx. It ended up at 5/16" dia and weighs 625 grains. It is still parallel so I could lose some weight by barrelling it and maybe a couple more grains by dropping the spline a few pounds. That's 21 grains per inch. Still seems pretty heavy to me. On the plus side I was surprised how well it planed. It worked quite easily.
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I was putting a piece of bamboo in the truck to dry so I thought I might as well put the OS arrow in there as well. I checked today after 24 or so hours. The weight had dropped from 625 to 591 grains and the spine went from 50# up to 58#. I'm sure that piece of OS was under the saw for a couple of years. It was a half round about 3/4"x 1 1/2". This is making me wonder if OS needs artificial heat to truly dry. I put it back in the truck :)
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DC Ocean Spray tends to drive me crazy. Until I get my bows roughed out they don't stop losing weight. even then it can take over a year To completely dry, and that is living east of the mountains where our humidity is ridiculously low.
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Don, I have been playing with a long slow dryng process for arrow stock. like a year or more at 100F. this is for confirs though, and I wish I hant put them all in the box, cause I neeeded to keep some out for a control sample
maybe what OS needs though?
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It's really looking like it needs a couple of years. One slow drying to minimise checking and one rather aggressive to dry out deeper moisture
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DC Ocean Spray tends to drive me crazy. Until I get my bows roughed out they don't stop losing weight. even then it can take over a year To completely dry, and that is living east of the mountains where our humidity is ridiculously low.
Don't know why some of you guys are having a hard time drying OS. I dry them on a rack near the ceiling for about 3-4 months and whatever checking appears then, is all I get Period..!