Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Flight Bows => Topic started by: DC on April 04, 2019, 09:45:21 am
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Arrow length is minimum 23" isn't it? Why? Would shorter go farther? Certainly there would be a natural cut off where shorter ceased to be better. Or would you be shooting ball bearings if the rules allowed it?
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Probably to just allow a decent draw length without people starting to want huge overdraws. Have to draw the line somewhere.
People did use much shorter arrows in the days of the real unlimited classes like when Don Brown set the record.
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Could've phrased that better. I wasn't thinking about the rules so much as the physical limitations. Surely there must be a point where shorter ain't better. All this time I thought draw length was king and then I start reading about flight archery. Is the "short arrow" all about weight and stiffness and does this trump draw length and stored energy? Something in here doesn't add up for me so I must be missing something. ??? ???
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Well less arrow requires less stored energy. Short and fast bows, light and stiff arrows.
Crossbows shoot bolts far beyond a normal bow range.
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True enough
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Badger? Weigh in, please! How does this figure in to practical/hunting archery?
Hawkdancer
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One could argue that the main benefit of a longer draw and arrow is to put it in an advantageous position for using the muscles to draw it properly and direct the arrow to the target
The old unlimited bows had a forward extension of the handle make it feel as if they were actually being drawn to a full draw length.
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This stuff is what hooks you into flight archery... striving for the sweet spot ;D.
I tried a 16" arrow from "Ill Bastardo" which normally draws 28", but is 50" @16" It felt fast, couldn't see it go, but it only made 150 yards (v strong headwind).
I currently have two 50# flight bows being built to test against my current one... the best will get shot near the end of May.
Del
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That's the reason why the best flight bows of almost any type have always hovered around that 42" length. I wouldn't be surprised if that also hold true for even self bows. However back in the day sinew etc. was adopted before that was truly explored.
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One reason for short arrows is that you can use a very dense material and still have enough stiffness with very little drag. One of our newer flight shooters is a physicist and last year he made a statement that there is not much point in shooting an arrow much faster than its terminal speed when falling. I had never really thought of that. Currently longer draws are dominating in the self and longbow classes. A 90# elb I built a couple of years ago set a new record at 450 yards with a 28" arrow. He told me he had reached over 500 yards with it in practice right before the shoot but I think he may have overdrawn it and caused a little set in the bow. I think well built flight arrows properly tuned to the bow are the big challenge. There is not enough difference in bow speeds to account for the huge differences in the distances achieved. It is not unusual to see well over a 100 yards difference in arrows all shot from the same bow in the same round. One of our archers shot what i think was a 14" arrow from a 70# modern american longbow and broke a 35# record. Not too many of the flight shooters today are able to get out and practice enough to really develop any kind of solid patterns. The two guys that I know of that do practice seem to favor the longer draws and arrows.
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Boy, this goes back and forth ;D ;D That keeps it interesting. I like that,"there is not much point in shooting an arrow much faster than its terminal speed when falling." That kind of rings true to me. It'll give me something to ponder
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If you can make it slipperier it will fall faster. :)
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i like arrows tuned to the bow and not worry about weight so much. Narrow is good. Slick is good . As small a fletch as you can get by with and have good flight. I'll continue to read and learn though.
Arvin
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Arvin, my best arrows have always been the densest heaviest wood I can find with the smallest diameter and smallest fletches of course.
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,"there is not much point in shooting an arrow much faster than its terminal speed when falling." That kind of rings true to me.
Steve,, was there a reason offered alongside that opinion?
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The trend over time is that the shortest arrow that you can get a clean launch with will do best. Every year, I go out and shoot and catalog the performance of arrows with a shooting contraption that maintains a fixed draw length, shooting angle, and measures the launch speed. Each year, my best flying arrows got a little shorter. I used to think the arrow with the smallest diameter should do best, but a shorter arrow of the same mass with a thicker maximum diameter always did better as long as the arrow tapers to the point and same diameter nock end as the longer thin arrow.
Last year I finally ran into a bit of a limit where the arrow was too short and I could not get as clean a launch. This because I was overdrawing the arrow about double the arrow’s length.
Alan
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How do you keep the string from running into the overdraw device?
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The arrow tip is supported on several flexible pieces of Mylar. It provides a very secure support for the tip of the arrow. The string blows right through when the bow is shot. I have to change out the arrow rest about every 20 shots.
Alan
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Thanks, my mind was imagining two sliding troughs and I couldn't see that working.
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DC, Have you ever seen a Korean overdraw? It will blow your mind when it comes to short arrows and long draws.
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Yes, Bede Dwyer once tested out one of the Korean overdraws at our flight event a time the salt flats. The short darts flew considerably farther than the full length arrows, although I don’t recall if the arrows weights were the same.
Alan
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I did a search and got the PVC bow guy shooting with one. That is a cool rig. I had to look a couple of times to see what was going on.