Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: csmcartor on April 13, 2019, 12:02:17 pm
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Hey all,
I recently stumbled onto this forum after I got the itch to try my hand at building a bow (I've had a modern bow for several years) and learning to shoot more traditionally. It looks like this will be a great place for me to learn. Next time I get the chance I'm going to try to find some good trees to make some staves out of (I should be able to find hickory, black locust, and maybe osage on some land owned by family). Until then I'm thinking of trying to buy a stave to get started with. What rough dimensions should I look for? I'm 6'1" and would be looking to make a bow in the 45-55# range at least for my first one.
Also are there any good sources of staves that can be purchased? So far I've found staves Pine Hollow Longbows, Raptor Archery and eBay. Any other places I should look?
Thanks for the help!
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be carful buying wood from eBay, it can be tricky to navigate what’s good and what’s not with a seller that may or may not know what you need.
I don’t personally know anything about the other sellers you mentioned, but I’ve heard they’re names here on PA before.
Also Contact Clint, he goes by Osage outlaw here on PA he sells a lot of Osage (and some other woods now and again) at trad archery shoots.
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Thanks for the response! With buying staves, is there anything in particular to look for other than relatively straight, lacking knots, and certain dimensions? Many on eBay have lots of pictures so it seems like you could get a decent idea of what's coming from those.
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"(I've had a modern bow for several years)" ..are you referring to a compound bow. When I started using a Trad bow even a 40# was to much for me until I got use to pulling that weight and conditioning my back and arm muscles. A lower weight bow like around 30-35# was the norm for a while. I would go for a bow about 66-68" NTN for starters. Lots of guys on here have garages full of staves.
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"(I've had a modern bow for several years)" ..are you referring to a compound bow. When I started using a Trad bow even a 40# was to much for me until I got use to pulling that weight and conditioning my back and arm muscles. A lower weight bow like around 30-35# was the norm for a while. I would go for a bow about 66-68" NTN for starters. Lots of guys on here have garages full of staves.
Thanks. I do mean a compound. I shoot it at about 70# so I went a little lower than that. Maybe I'm overly optimistic about my own strength... I should probably shoot for a lower weight when I make my first bow.
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Thanks. I do mean a compound. I shoot it at about 70# so I went a little lower than that. Maybe I'm overly optimistic about my own strength... I should probably shoot for a lower weight when I make my first bow.
"probably shoot for a lower weight' then again this is me I'm just an old cowboy. Practice holding a 40-45# dead weight to get an idea of it. Some of us are a little to hasty in the Club environment because we shoot groups of 3-5 arrows constantly like 100 shots in an hour.. (--)...I have slowed down a lot thinking that quality is better than quantity, and if I'm having an off day its better to pack it up and hit the road.
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45# would be a good place for you to start if building your first bow but don't get too attached to it. There is a good chance you'll come in under weight or with a bad hinge but there is plenty more wood where that came from. Not trying to discourage you, we've all been there. Make it a fun project and enjoy the journey.
You'll use different muscles drawing a traditional bow than you will a compound so start slow and work up to a comfortable weight.
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Welcome aboard! Take your time when working, ask a lot of questions, and remember - "Patience, Grasshopper, patience! When in doubt, ask. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask!
Hawkdancer
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Thanks for all the replies so far! How wide should I look for (or make) an osage or hickory stave?
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6'x3" would be a good place to start. Wider would be a plus(you can make 2 staves from it). You can build a hunting weight osage bow with a 1" wide stave but that is a few classes ahead of you. For bow building 101 lets start with 3". Straight( ;D), fewer knots( ::)), 1/8" growth rings( :o) and go from there.
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Welcome to PA Munkish. Don't know your location, but the season for Primitive Archery Meets is soon to be upon us. In fact one was just last weekend in Wisconsin. The Tennessee Classic is coming soon. My State of Michigan will be having the Marshall Primitive Archery Meet. Missouri will have MoJam mid summer. These are all highly recommended for anyone, especially beginners. A great place to get any supplies very reasonable with no shipping charges and the ability to actually run your hands and eyes over them. I always bring my very limited budget $ with me and try to get everything I need for a year. Also lots of very talented bowyers willing to give a hand and share the knowledge and bow building on site. There are a few more meets to. If you scroll down to the section titled something like Primitive Shoots and Events you will get more info.
Good Luck and like Pat said. Just have fun. Don't feel to bad if your first bow doesn't work out. Just learn all you can and enjoy the ride.
Bjrogg
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When you get started on your bow, have tools and wood in hand and are starting to shape your bow let me know and I will send you a tillering gizmo. This is a very good tool to let you know where to remove wood to get your limbs bending correctly.
I used to send them to people who were "thinking about making a bow" but found thinking about making a bow and actually jumping in and making one are two different things. I suspect many of my earlier gifted gizmos ended up in the trash because the recipients never got past the "thinking" stage.
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That gizmo is a very valuable tool and gift! Thanks, Eric! Welcome to PA, Munkish, these folks have a wealth of knowledge to tap! Ask any question that comes up, even if you think it's "dumb" - the only dumb question is the one you don't ask! Have fun, be patient!
Hawkdancer
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When you get started on your bow, have tools and wood in hand and are starting to shape your bow let me know and I will send you a tillering gizmo. This is a very good tool to let you know where to remove wood to get your limbs bending correctly.
Thanks! I'm not there yet. I'm still trying to figure out how to get wood. I live overseas (Middle East) so that is proving a little more difficult than it would in the States. I was looking at buying a stave or having my brother cut some and ship them. But having a stave shipped out here is expensive (~$100 shipping from the US). The alternative is trying to find a piece of wood here. From doing a quick google search it looks like where I am I could find Persian Oak (quercus brantii), Aleppo Oak (quercus infectoria), Lebanon Oak (quercus libani). I'm in a bigger city with no forests nearby but when I've driven around the mountain area I've occasionally found lots with cut logs I could probably buy pretty cheap and then spit up. Or there are cut and debarked saplings in ~2-4 inch diameter range that people use for construction. Do you all think a random oak species would work?
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Where do you live? There might be other woods that are not known bow woods that grow there and could make good bows. I'd say try any oak but be careful of wood that was previously cut and not handled properly. It would be better if you could cut it yourself to insure proper treatment for a good bow wood.
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Within reason, I believe most woods will make a bow in some dimensions. All things equal, start with a proven, straight, dry, knot free stave. You don't have that option at this point, so I would say start with a straight, knot free stave of whatever you have available to you. Do a bend test on it. Keep it wide and long. Narrow it as you go if it takes little or no set when floor tillering. Some experimentation is in the offing, but that is how lots of "bow woods" were added to the list. Most of the oaks I am familiar with are fairly dense. Dont know a thing about the ones you mentioned, but a little research should give you some details as to what oaks it is most closely related to, and that will put you in the ballpark. That would be my suggestion.
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No worry dealing with mike at pine hollow longbows or osage outlaw here on the forum.
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Where do you live? There might be other woods that are not known bow woods that grow there and could make good bows. I'd say try any oak but be careful of wood that was previously cut and not handled properly. It would be better if you could cut it yourself to insure proper treatment for a good bow wood.
I'm in Iraqi Kurdistan (the autonomous region in the north of the country). Finding quality wood here in the city is so difficult that I've about decided to have a hickory stave shipped here (it's so dry that moisture shouldn't be an issue) so that I have something to work on until I have time to go up into the mountains looking for logs to split into staves.
If I'm going to have one shipped, would you all recommend getting some backing material too? If so, what would be good to use (rawhide, sinew, other...)?
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You might have access to certain species of hazel and maple
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Wasn't there a thread about some fella having problems with bow breakage due to low humidity. Cant remember the details but I think he was in the southwest US. I've been to kurdistan and it can be pretty dry (at least where I was) so a wood which will work with low moisture would be necessary. I'm not the one to know which wood that would be as I'm new to this but a lot of guys here would know. Just don't want someone to go through the shipping on a piece of wood that may fail.
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I know in that region there is a main species of oak and even some juniper and maple. If you don’t mind accidentally bumping into the Kurdish peeps, even then I know they’ve used the good straight oak for roof rafters for centuries. If you come across or know of an old village house that’s no longer in use it might be worth a look. Good lawrd knows it’s seasoned by now ;D
Also mulberry seems to like growing along the irrigation routes. Plus fruit trees usually make an excellent bow.
Maybe head over to Zafraniya near Baghdad or Mosul tree and plant nurseries see if they can help yah out, finding something. Sometimes they have unsold or large enough stock of plum trees that’ll bee large enough in diameter for a bow.
Measure your wingspan finger tip to finger tip. Take that measurement and divide it by 2.5 and that’s likely your draw length.
Depending where you’re at hickory is a fine choice, Osage would suite you know matter where you are.
Either way I’ll be watching this thread continue
Bryce
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Hickory would be a good choice for your climate. If you can get summer cut hickory so the bark will pop off or is already off you won't need backing. With a board stave I think I'd back it. Rawhide is good but so is silk or linen.
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I just ordered a 72 inch straight split hickory stave which should arrive in a month or so. I can get normal rasps and files at the Ace Hardware here in Erbil, and my brother is bringing me a shinto rasp, a bow stringer, and a book on bow building (and a drawknife if possible) when he comes to visit in a month or so. Are there any other tools that are necessary? Should I go ahead a get a string? If so, how do I know how long I should get it? Is there a correlation between the length i'm shooting for and how long a string I should get?
I will be trying to make a tillering tree (and maybe a shave horse) if I can find the part of the bazaar that sells lumber. I need to figure out a portable one that will work on the balcony of our apartment here, because I don't think my wife would be happy about me mounting it to the walls inside.
Once I get the stave and start working I'll probably create another thread.
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I know in that region there is a main species of oak and even some juniper and maple. If you don’t mind accidentally bumping into the Kurdish peeps, even then I know they’ve used the good straight oak for roof rafters for centuries. If you come across or know of an old village house that’s no longer in use it might be worth a look. Good lawrd knows it’s seasoned by now ;D
Also mulberry seems to like growing along the irrigation routes. Plus fruit trees usually make an excellent bow.
Maybe head over to Zafraniya near Baghdad or Mosul tree and plant nurseries see if they can help yah out, finding something. Sometimes they have unsold or large enough stock of plum trees that’ll bee large enough in diameter for a bow.
Measure your wingspan finger tip to finger tip. Take that measurement and divide it by 2.5 and that’s likely your draw length.
Depending where you’re at hickory is a fine choice, Osage would suite you know matter where you are.
Either way I’ll be watching this thread continue
Bryce
I'm able to go most places in the Kurdish areas and occasionally visit the villages for hiking/picnics, but we don't leave the city that often because work keeps us pretty busy. I saw a lot with lots of fresh cut logs that looked like oak of some sort on a drive through the mountains a couple months ago. I'm going to try and go back there sometime soon and see if it would be a place to get wood in the future. Since Baghad and Mosul aren't governed by the Kurds I can't go there.
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What Pat B said.
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I know in that region there is a main species of oak and even some juniper and maple. If you don’t mind accidentally bumping into the Kurdish peeps, even then I know they’ve used the good straight oak for roof rafters for centuries. If you come across or know of an old village house that’s no longer in use it might be worth a look. Good lawrd knows it’s seasoned by now ;D
Also mulberry seems to like growing along the irrigation routes. Plus fruit trees usually make an excellent bow.
Maybe head over to Zafraniya near Baghdad or Mosul tree and plant nurseries see if they can help yah out, finding something. Sometimes they have unsold or large enough stock of plum trees that’ll bee large enough in diameter for a bow.
Measure your wingspan finger tip to finger tip. Take that measurement and divide it by 2.5 and that’s likely your draw length.
Depending where you’re at hickory is a fine choice, Osage would suite you know matter where you are.
Either way I’ll be watching this thread continue
Bryce
I'm able to go most places in the Kurdish areas and occasionally visit the villages for hiking/picnics, but we don't leave the city that often because work keeps us pretty busy. I saw a lot with lots of fresh cut logs that looked like oak of some sort on a drive through the mountains a couple months ago. I'm going to try and go back there sometime soon and see if it would be a place to get wood in the future. Since Baghad and Mosul aren't governed by the Kurds I can't go there.
I would definitely go talk with that lots cutters. Explain what your looking for and ask to go along when they go out to cut.