Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DC on May 13, 2019, 12:08:17 pm

Title: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 13, 2019, 12:08:17 pm
This is my latest try. BooYew RD 63" NTN following the curves. I tried to put more reflex in this time but it didn't hold. I should have done more heat treat I think. I heated in about half the reflex and glued in the rest. There was 3 3/4" reflex when I unwrapped it and it ended up with 2". Fumed crabapple tips. I've got 3-400 shots through it. It shoots nice. It's a few FPS slower than my best.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 13, 2019, 12:09:05 pm
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Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 13, 2019, 12:10:10 pm
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Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: backtowood B2W on May 13, 2019, 12:54:23 pm
PFFF! What a nice bow!! Very good splice job - think I will have to refine my first splice fingers before I get the glue in my hands.
How long is draw length ?
Martin
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 13, 2019, 01:04:41 pm
I pull about 26-27" but when I chrono them I pull them to 28". I use a shooting machine to test the speed so that my crummy release is eliminated. :D
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: SLIMBOB on May 13, 2019, 02:08:18 pm
Sweet!  That's faster than the looks would indicate, and I mean that in a good way.  I'm partial to those that might be underestimated.  Bows and people.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: PatM on May 13, 2019, 04:07:53 pm
That looks nice.  Did your boo split a bit  in the outer?
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 13, 2019, 04:12:56 pm
Yes. A while back Sleek mentioned that he had problems with that. Just to show he's not alone. That backing strip has kicked around for quite a while so I really can't remember when it split.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: bradsmith2010 on May 13, 2019, 06:19:15 pm
very nice ,, beautiful,, I think it shoots great,, congrats,, :)
to me thats great speed,, and with the reflex being moderate,, it should be very stable,,in every way,, great work,,
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: upstatenybowyer on May 13, 2019, 06:38:49 pm
Awesome bow Don. The tiller looks sweet. I've found that an extra lam in the middle goes a really long way towards getting a bow to hold its unstrung profile. It's a bit more work but worth it IMO. Then again, with numbers like those, how important is an inch or two more reflex?  :)

Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: Woodely on May 13, 2019, 07:56:23 pm
Nice unit and splice job,  the patina looks appealing.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: NorthHeart on May 13, 2019, 08:47:09 pm
Looking good DC!  I like the pic of your beautiful bow in front of the flowering bushes!
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: Sagebrush on May 13, 2019, 09:50:15 pm
Nice work as always DC.  Smoking fast.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: Del the cat on May 14, 2019, 12:58:22 am
Gotta love the boo yew combo.
That's a fine looking splice, wish mine were that pretty :)
Del
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: ohma2 on May 14, 2019, 07:40:52 am
I wouldnt cover that splice joint it adds a great look to the bow
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: rps3 on May 14, 2019, 07:44:51 am
Thats a great looking bow, and fast too! I'm going to have to keep my chrono under the bed...no reason to set myself up for disapointment.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 14, 2019, 07:57:53 am
Thanks for all the comments, 'preciate them. A third lam? I have ended up with a third lam on a couple of occasions when I screwed up and had to glue on a new belly. I'm not sure I would plan on it. It just seems to be that one more step from primitive. We put strange constraints on ourselves, don't we?
I put a lot of time into the splices. Backed bows are easier because one side of the splice will be hidden. I would like to get the points a bit better. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. One of the nice things about the shorter finger joint is that it's easier to glue a belly piece on to hide that side :D ;)
I was hoping to get this one into the 190's and was that close. It's funny though, it seemed to gain a few fps during the shooting in period. I've never seen that before so I may be mistaken. maybe next time.
Thanks again for all the nice comments :) :)
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 14, 2019, 08:08:40 am
Thats a great looking bow, and fast too! I'm going to have to keep my chrono under the bed...no reason to set myself up for disapointment.
I want to keep reminding you guys that I use a shooting machine to test the speed. My draw is a little short and I have a lousy release. When I started using the machine the speeds went up 10-15 fps. I don't think this takes anything away from the bow. I'm pretty sure that Badger(or other good flight shooters) could get the same numbers as I get with the machine. When I try to shoot through the chrono I get a lot of errors and the harder I try, the more errors I get. The machine gives me consistency that I just don't have.
It's quite possible that you could get similar results. Especially if your manual result are kind of inconsistent.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: simk on May 15, 2019, 12:05:49 am
One fine bow again. Intersting how you always slightly vary your d/r design. Is this depending on your actual mood, coincindece or do you follow a master plan in the changes done?
Cheers
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: Bayou Ben on May 15, 2019, 07:03:54 am
Another sweet r/d DC.  I know you got the original idea from Marc, but you are starting to put your own spin on these which is really cool.
Question: so the handle piece is glued on and then spliced? 
 
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 15, 2019, 08:38:39 am
One fine bow again. Intersting how you always slightly vary your d/r design. Is this depending on your actual mood, coincindece or do you follow a master plan in the changes done?
Cheers
I'm trying to get to 200 fps before I die. ;D ;D(fat chance) I just modify things a bit each time with no particular ideas and see what happens. This one was actually supposed to be more reflex but I put more bend closer to the handle and more bend pulled out than I expected so the net effect was to flatten the whole limb. It still turned out very well so i have to do some thinking about why. So far about all I know is RD, Bamboo and Yew. That will get me a fast bow. It's a funny thing, chasing speed. You make the bow, chrono it, pat yourself on the back(or not) and then the bow becomes just another bow where the speed doesn't really matter. Almost seems pointless but it's a challenge. ;D ;D
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 15, 2019, 08:56:36 am
Another sweet r/d DC.  I know you got the original idea from Marc, but you are starting to put your own spin on these which is really cool.
Question: so the handle piece is glued on and then spliced?

Thanks and yes, I glue a piece on. https://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,65285.15.html
 About halfway down the page. When you are cutting the splice it has to be cut at the angle you want it to be. If you cut the splice with the bow flat on the saw table when you fit the splice together in deflex the back opens out and you have to do a whole bunch of sanding and fitting to get it right. If you saw the splice at the intended deflex angle it fits better right from the start. I kinda think that doing it like that also meshes the riser in with the bow and maybe helps prevent the riser from popping off.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: Badger on May 15, 2019, 10:54:01 am
Nice bow D/C  what is the draw weight at 28". I might try and talk you into loaning me that bow for the flight shoots this year.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 15, 2019, 12:10:11 pm
Oh yeah, I forgot all that. It's 44#@28". The speed was measured with a 438 grain arrow. I would be pleased to give/lend it to you.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: maitus on May 15, 2019, 12:22:00 pm
Good bow, DC, and i think You would have got Your 200 if You had put some reflex on handle.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: Bayou Ben on May 15, 2019, 12:35:31 pm
Ah, yes, I forgot about your jig. 
I always thought about cutting at an angle like that but never did.  Just sanded until it fit right and snug down on the clamps.  Your method seems better. 
So have you tried a triangle piece to fit between deflexed limbs, then add riser parts (like Marc does)?  Just wondering what's your thoughts on the subject....
 
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 15, 2019, 12:54:42 pm
Good bow, DC, and I think You would have got Your 200 if You had put some reflex on handle.
I'm not so sure about that. At first glance it seems obvious that less deflex would be the answer but I have this gut feeling that there is more to RD's than that first glance. This could just be because all my fastest bows have been RD but I dunno.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 15, 2019, 12:59:58 pm
Ah, yes, I forgot about your jig. 
I always thought about cutting at an angle like that but never did.  Just sanded until it fit right and snug down on the clamps.  Your method seems better. 
So have you tried a triangle piece to fit between deflexed limbs, then add riser parts (like Marc does)?  Just wondering what's your thoughts on the subject....
No, I've never tried that, I didn't realise that's how he did it. It does look like splicing the thinner pieces first may make it easier to get a nice splice but then it would be tougher to fit the riser piece. I have some thin OS drying, I'll try this method on that next year. If the OS has dried by then ;D ;D Is the picture one of yours or one of Marc's?
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: Badger on May 15, 2019, 01:49:53 pm
Good bow, DC, and I think You would have got Your 200 if You had put some reflex on handle.
I'm not so sure about that. At first glance it seems obvious that less deflex would be the answer but I have this gut feeling that there is more to RD's than that first glance. This could just be because all my fastest bows have been RD but I dunno.

  R/D give you better string angles and a higher force draw curve
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: simk on May 15, 2019, 01:54:44 pm
Quote
I'm trying to get to 200 fps before I die. ;D ;D(fat chance) ... Almost seems pointless but it's a challenge. ;D ;D


DC, I really I can feel with you. Sometimes dreaming of chronos and a shooting machines....must have >:D

Have the 200fps already been done with a (backed) wooden primitive bow and 10gpp?

Is it somehow clear that best chances for 10gpp/200fps are around 45#, 60"ttt and 28" draw? Why not e.g. 65# 50ttt bendy with flipped tipps and 26" draw, or...something completly else? Is the fastest bow also the best performer in flight shooting? So many questions...answers? cheers   
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 15, 2019, 02:01:32 pm
I think it's been done with backed, I'm not so sure about a selfbow. I can only pull about 40# so that's why I chose that. Then I can use the bow. 28" just seems to be a standard that everyone can relate to.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: Bayou Ben on May 15, 2019, 02:52:30 pm
Ah, yes, I forgot about your jig. 
I always thought about cutting at an angle like that but never did.  Just sanded until it fit right and snug down on the clamps.  Your method seems better. 
So have you tried a triangle piece to fit between deflexed limbs, then add riser parts (like Marc does)?  Just wondering what's your thoughts on the subject....
No, I've never tried that, I didn't realise that's how he did it. It does look like splicing the thinner pieces first may make it easier to get a nice splice but then it would be tougher to fit the riser piece. I have some thin OS drying, I'll try this method on that next year. If the OS has dried by then ;D ;D Is the picture one of yours or one of Marc's?

Yeah that's mine.  Just giving credit to Marc for the idea. 

It's nice to cut the exact angle you want for deflex into the triangle and glue up the splice and triangle at once. 
But cutting the splice at an angle would be an improvement for me.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 15, 2019, 03:28:08 pm
I find it's easier to glue a rectangular block in between the limbs and then cut the angle after. Like in the link I posted. I have a tough time clamping angled pieces, they tend to slide around. Gluing the block in between is quicker and easier. If you measure right, when you cut the diagonal the angle is done.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: Bayou Ben on May 15, 2019, 04:14:07 pm
I find it's easier to glue a rectangular block in between the limbs and then cut the angle after. Like in the link I posted. I have a tough time clamping angled pieces, they tend to slide around. Gluing the block in between is quicker and easier. If you measure right, when you cut the diagonal the angle is done.

I'm now understanding what you are doing.  That's a great idea.  I guess the tricky part is measuring and cutting the diagonal accurately. 
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 15, 2019, 05:08:49 pm
It's not tricky, just make sure it's thicker than you need and make two cuts, well three. ;) ;)

Oh, make sure the limbs are oriented right. I glued the block to the back of one. :-[ :-[
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 17, 2019, 04:01:55 pm
Ah, yes, I forgot about your jig. 
I always thought about cutting at an angle like that but never did.  Just sanded until it fit right and snug down on the clamps.  Your method seems better. 
So have you tried a triangle piece to fit between deflexed limbs, then add riser parts (like Marc does)?  Just wondering what's your thoughts on the subject....

Ben, I've been looking at this picture. It looks to me like you've spliced together two 1/2"(about) pieces and then glued in the triangle piece. If so, have you had any problem with the riser lifting? If I did it this way I could get a few more bows for my buck.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: Marc St Louis on May 17, 2019, 04:15:33 pm
That's another nice one Don. Sorry I can't comment more on it but I'm not home right now and I find it hell to post with these hand held devices
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: Bayou Ben on May 18, 2019, 08:54:00 am
Yeah thatís pretty much it DC.  Iíve done a couple this way and havenít had any problems. 
On this one I added a power lam and a thin piece to cover the triangle and limb connection.  Then I added more thin pieces on the top. 
If you do it this way I would suggest having your power lam go past your handle.  It will reduce some of the stress on the joint between the riser and limbs.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 18, 2019, 09:29:16 am
Thanks Ben. If I make the power lam that long I don't think it would be legal for the Primitive Simple Composite Bow class. Maybe a one piece backing would be better.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: Woodely on May 18, 2019, 09:31:14 am
What is Primitive Simple Composite Bow class.
Title: Re: BooYew
Post by: DC on May 18, 2019, 09:52:06 am
What is Primitive Simple Composite Bow class.
Down toward the bottom. There is a thread in the "Flight Bow" forum.

https://usflightarchery.com/pdf/02_USAA-2017-Update-Flight%20Equipment.pdf