Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Mountain Man1 on May 23, 2019, 05:09:46 am
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Well, I have contracted the bow-itis haha. Just about done my first build and it has made an addict of me. Just wondering if anyone can clear a few things up for me, I have studied/researched extensively but have no experience to work with. She is a fine specimen of a yellow birch sapling taken near my driveway, about 1 3/8" to mid limb, 68" length.
First- had a sideways bend near the handle and straightened it with steam. It worked but in the process of pushing on the side she rolled and I ended up flexing it backwards. Heard it crack... :(
looked it all over and dug the cracked sections down with a rasp to get below the cracks and it seems to have worked. is this a viable fix or am I just prolonging the inevitable?
Second- had a large rollercoaster section in the top limb, also steamed out. Now I have a dent from the clamp on the bows back (I knew better but just wasn't thinking). I got it to rebound with a hot wet rag overnight but still a bit of a dent. Is this point likely to be a stress riser and pop a splinter?
Lastly- after fixing what I could I decided to test it. No point doing all the finish work if she's gonna explode right? Shot beautifully at about half- two thirds draw (scared to go farther until final tiller is done). Of course since I recently steamed the crap out of it, a lot of my rollercoaster has returned. Is it still too moist or is this likely to happen anyway? I plan on heat treating the belly, should I do that now and use that heat to fix my remaining warps or steam again and leave it longer before I finish it?
Sorry for the lengthy post but being my first I am a bit unsure of myself and since I now have a functional bow on my very first attempt I would really hate to screw it up this late in the game.
Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide.
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Was it dry before you did all this or still green?
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It was dry. I had cut it in the fall, rough shaped and sealed the ends then left it in the basement until spring. About 5 months total on a shaped 3" sapling, should be as dry as it is going to get.
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I've never worked Birch but I would steam it again and then heat treat it while it's still bent. This kinda locks in the bend somehow. Can you post pictures of where the crack was and the clamp dings?
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I have worked with Birch in a cabinet shop, its quite splintery and it lacks elasticity, Knots present a weak spot with that wood big time. I would run screaming and try some other wood. Having said that maybe you can get a nice bow from it.
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I'm hoping to get pictures figured out today. Not much with computer stuff haha. Got a video of it shooting too not sure if can put that up or not. The birch is nice to work but should have got a better stave. Lot of twists and knots for a first attempt. I'll try the heat treat while it's still flat after a good steam, I was worried about the moisture from the steam causing cracks if I heated it. Any idea what thickness my limbs should roughly be on such a bow for 50# draw? Think I'm going to end up under weight by the time I smooth out the belly again.
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You may get some lengthwise cracks. You can fill them with CA(super glue). It's the crosswise ones to worry about. I've had lengthwise cracks open up while heating and then close up when the wood cooled, never to be seen again. Couldn't even find them to put CA in.
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I've got images loaded to imgur. How do I get them on here?
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So imgur was a bust. Kept getting errors. Can I get photos on here from my google photos app?
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With imgur you can select bbcode and then copy the link. Paste the link in your post and you should be good to go. That is what I do.
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I use the pixlar app on my droid phone to reduce pic sizes. And on my desktop I use old-school Paint program that comes w every windows computer to my knowledge.
Fwiw, Paul
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There!! Finally got pictures working, I think... let me know if the link doesnt work and I'll try and figure out where I went wrong.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HvGCWzWKWvCBF3w56
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Nope, the link get's me to Alicia's page and then it wants me to log in.
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Crap,I'll have to another way
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https://flic.kr/p/2g7rbLq
Try this link, hopefully I've got this picture thing figured out
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In the picture you can see the lower limb isn't flexing much. That few inches of handle being lower than center seems to make tillering a pain. Anyone have tips on tillering an asymmetrical design or just keep scraping bit by bit? Seems I'm a sucker for punishment, very first bow so I went with a knotty, crooked stave in an asymmetric design... what could possibly go wrong haha
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if you say it isn't flexing much, then you are probally right. pretty typical of birch is the rollerer coaster back, which makes it hard to tell from just one pic.
maybe an unbraced pic for comparison?
easier still is if you find a way to pull it with a rope and pully, so that you can stand back ad watch it bend as you pull.
is that braced or still on a longstring?
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I think I had it at about 2" brace. Just enough to shoot it cuz I couldn't wait haha. I'll get an unbranded pic for comparison
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That lower limb is definitely stiff. You could remove some from in between those knots (steady, steady) and definitely from the outside of them. Hard to tell from a single photo. An unbraced pic of both the profile and the side would be helpful. You will find a lot of help, support, and advice if you are willing to post more photos.
A very challenging first stave indeed. Most people cut their teeth on board bows. I have a house full of them! I will never make a board bow again though. Too sterile and cookie-cutter-mechanical compared to a proper stave or billets. You should find the satisfaction of turning that piece of wood into a bow worthwhile. Perhaps you could call it "Six Flags"!
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I suddenly cant seem to figure out how I shared those pics from flickr, when i get that sorted I'll get some on here of the knots, an unbraced view and that rollercoaster section. By remove from outside the knots, do you mean essentially making the bow narrower?
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Picture share icon thing is in the lower right when looking at pic. Use the bb code, otherwise it may come up a link not a pic. Most normal folks dont want links to your book or whole collection but just a pic in the post. I'd suggest to preview before you post, you can adjust picture size before you post and usually when i dont preview they are way too large...
Mike
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Thanks for the advice Mike, do you know if that layout applies to the mobile app as well? being a bit of a hillbilly in a very rural area I don't have internet and a computer so I do everything on the cell phone. I think the issue is flickr itself at this time, it has been acting kind of sketchy on me in other ways too lately. Almost as if it is only half loading. As for the bow, after some tillering and flexing my warps are coming back so I am going to give it a good steaming and let it set longer, I think I started back at it too soon and still had some moisture. I have another to work on while this one is clamped up, doing a 56" holmegard style out of Red Maple. Not the best wood as I understand but I went wide and plan on heat treating and possibly backing. If it works out it should be fast as the wood is super light.
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Wish I could help ya with that Mountain Man but I do just the reverse and use flickr only from my home computer. Didn't realize that when I commented above. I agree they have done something recently, last pictures I posted took some extra time to figure out.
You may already know the following but a digital kitchen scale is a great thing to use when your waiting on a stave to dry. When the weight stays the same for a week or so I consider it good to go. Sometimes thats 2 weeks and other times its 6 after floor tillering for me. Good luck the 2 pieces you have going on right now.
Mike
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Getting the Flickr bbcode with the Flickr app or on mobile usually does not work well. I use this tool when I am on my mobile: https://tools.sportscard.trade/#flickr
This will tool generate a bbcode link from your normal Flickr photo link
@admin: Please remove this reply if I violate any rules posting external links but since this can help people posting images to this messageboard I figured it is ok
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Sorry for the long delay but I have been quite busy lately.
Updates...
1) bow was fighting me on an even tiller, chased it down to a 10# @ 30" draw... crap, new plan.
2) Piked it to 42" and adjusted tiller, now it's 10# @ 12"... perfect! got a gift for my nephew.
3) test fired it... overconfident and drew too far, TICK (stupid pin knot). Crap, new plan...
4) So here I sit, pondering why this bow hates me. Not being one to accept defeat, I will work this thing until I succeed or one of us dies!
So, here's the plan... Superglue with a rawhide wrap, stitched on tight while wet so it will shrink up and squeeze the crack really tight. Also going to go over it thoroughly and apply the same treatment to any other potential bad spots to avoid further complications.
Will this be safe to give my nephew after the repairs or should I just keep it and make him another one?
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well, you are making yourself another one also?
FWIW, some find tillering a thin limb or very light bow even more challenging than a normal poundage bow.
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Hello Mountain Man1,
I'm new here too, but found Weylin's post on how to take good photos and get them into posts really easy to follow. It's at the top of the 'Bows' board.
You got the important stuff done - the angry face on the nock. My first bow was an awful crooked stave with lots of knots too. Not sure what I was thinking, but it ended up working, with a pretty woeful tiller and a bucket of stack at full draw. But it was enough to get me going into the next ones....
Look forward to seeing the end result
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Yes, I have gone through that photo post but it was a while ago. The directions were great but didn't cover mobile apps well.