Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Nasr on August 16, 2019, 07:29:05 am
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I know that 200 fps at 10gpp @28" is the goal and we might have broken it without knowing but how fast can you theoretically make them given all the variables we know, of course i am talking about self bows or all wood bows. I know that speed shouldn't be our main objective when making traditional bows but i think its in our nature as bowyers to get better in all aspects of making bows. Just wanted to get your thoughts on this.
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My thought is that 10gpp is arbitrary and doesn't apply to either warbows shooting heavy arrows or out and out flight bows.
In either of the above cases I think 200 fps is pretty much a minimum requirement.
Del
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10gpp is a recommendation for a hunting bow. That's only one area of archery world. I think folks used to say add 100 to your draw weight as an average, ie. 150fps for a 50# selfbow.
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For me so far there is a big difference between backed(Bamboo or Maple) and self bows. The best I've managed with a backed bow is 193FPS@10gpp. The best I've gotten with a selfbow is in the high 170's. I'd be interested in what others have gotten with selfbows. I don't think they should be compared to one another.
The 10gpp is arbitrary but it does eliminate a variable when comparing bows. In the end though, the ultimate quest is cast and that requires both a bow and an arrow.
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High 170 self bow,,,I thought it shot 180...but I think I overdrew )P(
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I have been in the mid 180 a lot, more commonly in the mid-upper 170s. I have seen plenty hit 190s, none of my own. I have one that may hit 190s, as it did hit 200 with a 350g arrow from a 40# bow.
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These numbers are very impressive. In your opinion do these bows have durability or do they not last as long.
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These numbers are very impressive. In your opinion do these bows have durability or do they not last as long.
In my opinion, if a bow is built well enough to obtain that speed, its builder will have the skills needed to ensure its durability and is more likely to last longer than a poorly built slow bow. That doesnt mean that set wont take place over thousands of shots and the bow wont slow down, but as for breakage, I believe that's unlikely.
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Osage recurve - 185fps @ 10gpp Elm deflexed recurve 185fps are my best selfbows. 65# Turkish hornbow - 190fps but it shines with the lighter arrows.
Flight bows are a different animal but 'warbows' won't shoot a 10gpp arrow over 200fps, it is just a heavier bow if all things are scaled they are no different to a 50#er
Sleek i'd love to see all these 190 bows ;) Are these selfbows you are talking about?
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I only have one that may fit that bill, it's a deflex reflex design, the other bows are posted by other people on here, DC comes to mind. aim will look for the link to my bow.
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I can make one bow a year working in 30 min intervals ;D
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,53940.0.html
My memory was faulty on the bow weight, it was in the 50# range, so, yeah it's in the 170s range at 10gpp per badgers calculations. Still, I love this bow, still shoot it on occasion. But, having taken my first deer with it, I want to retire it and hang it on my wall.
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DLH, I'm in that category!
Sleek, Congratulations, there might still be a deer or 2 in that bow! Hope that Florida contract runs full term for you!
Hawkdancer
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DLH, I'm in that category!
Sleek, Congratulations, there might still be a deer or 2 in that bow! Hope that Florida contract runs full term for you!
Hawkdancer
We will see yet Hawk! I'd like to get one more out of it on my own land, but we shall see. As for that Florida contract, they are pissing me off. They have one email to send me with information I need before I leave, I need it by end of business today, or I will not leave, to arrive on Monday like they want me to. Meanwhile, I got a potential job to bid o in Wichita for 38 bucks an hour plus a 110 bonus per week, and I'm thinking about bidding on it and letting florida kick rocks for stringing me along for a week with no communication.
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Like Pat said. 100 plus poundage ,but my bows are 25 inch draw. I will never see the 70,s 80, or 90's out of my bows.The numbers above must be from long draw, higher poundage bows.
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Like Pat said. 100 plus poundage ,but my bows are 25 inch draw. I will never see the 70,s 80, or 90's out of my bows.The numbers above must be from long draw, higher poundage bows.
Poundage doesnt matter with 10gpp rule. However, draw length does make a difference, and that can be scaled to lower draw lengths. I started a thread on that way back when... I will search for it.
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The 100-plus poundage formula was a faulty formula it just doesn't work it comes out kind of close
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I can make one bow a year working in 30 min intervals ;D
Ol' Daniel has been chasing a locust ring since March this year. You better hustle pal, its mid August already and you have a lot of catching up to do :)
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I just shot a 340 gr, 600 spine arrow out of 52 inch long 50 lb. at 25 inch draw bamboo lam bow ,and got 166 fps. With a 52 lb.sinew backed Black Locust same draw ,same arrow, same length bow at 170 fps. Now I have a much better idea of what it takes to post the numbers you guys are posting with 50 lb .self bows. Very impressive to say the least.
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My 193fps is a 43# bow @ 28". It's a Boo backed yew bow though.
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I just tested a half dozen of my self bows and they are all in the mid 170. best of 177.
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I just tested a half dozen of my self bows and they are all in the mid 170. best of 177.
Not bad for a solid average of your bows. If I'm in the 170s, I'm a happy guy, 180s I'm really happy, I dont guess I have hit 190s yet, but that will probably get me a bit jumpy with excitement.
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I've got two RD self bows that have the same side profile as my backed RDs. The backed ones are consistently 10fps faster. I want to try sawing the back off a stave and then gluing it back on with some reflex glued in. See what happens.
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dont you think you could get 170 with a 25 inch draw if the bow was designed for that,,???
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dont you think you could get 170 with a 25 inch draw if the bow was designed for that,,???
Yes, yes I do.
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So the backed bows that are getting faster speeds is that due to the glued in reflex or is it because they can be lighter made in term of physical weight.
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Guess I better learn how to use my chrono! All my bows are 45-50# and I draw 26" pretty consistently. I have no idea how fast they shoot, though. Bow makng speed seems to be one a year or a bit slower! There are several staves lurking in the garage, though!
Hawkdancer
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dont you think you could get 170 with a 25 inch draw if the bow was designed for that,,???
No :)
Lam bows are potentially faster due to being able to pick woods with particular properties and a glued in profile is better than a heat induced one.
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For me so far there is a big difference between backed(Bamboo or Maple) and self bows. The best I've managed with a backed bow is 193FPS@10gpp. The best I've gotten with a selfbow is in the high 170's. I'd be interested in what others have gotten with selfbows. I don't think they should be compared to one another.
The 10gpp is arbitrary but it does eliminate a variable when comparing bows. In the end though, the ultimate quest is cast and that requires both a bow and an arrow.
My furthest shot with any bow is with my self Osage flight bow 341 yards, I haven't shot it through the chrono, but it must be over 210fps but that is with a V light flight arrow, which is one reason why I haven't shot it through the chrono (trying to stop the arrow without breakage or loss)
The fine ringed Osage was kindly given to me by Clint the Osage Outlaw when I was over the pond :)
Dunno how it would do at 10gpp, 'cos I daren't weigh it on the tiller... prob about 80# at 27" with a load of early draw weight :)
Del
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a glued in profile is better than a heat induced one.
I agree but that almost sounds like the heat inducing damages/changes the wood in some way. What do you think?
If you could find a stave with a natural RD shape(good luck) do you think it would be as good as glued in profile? Ignoring the two different woods part. :D
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I think the glued in profile had less mass
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Brad maybe easier to control the mass. If you don’t have to deal with knots, humps and such. Arvin
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Maybe a engineer could assist me . 470 gr. arrow 230 yds from a 50# selfbow at 28”. I don’t live and die by chrono.
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So the backed bows that are getting faster speeds is that due to the glued in reflex or is it because they can be lighter made in term of physical weight.
Its both. Reflexes limb causes the physical mass of the limbs to be less when achieving tiller. This in theory causes faster speeds because it takes less force to move a lighter limb. There are tradeoffs to everything and in this arena it's a tradeoff between speed and reliability of the bow. If you design a bow strictly for speed it won't last long. If you design it to be bomb proof it will underperform. This has been proven over and over in the glass bow world. It is worse in self bows
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For me so far there is a big difference between backed(Bamboo or Maple) and self bows. The best I've managed with a backed bow is 193FPS@10gpp. The best I've gotten with a selfbow is in the high 170's. I'd be interested in what others have gotten with selfbows. I don't think they should be compared to one another.
The 10gpp is arbitrary but it does eliminate a variable when comparing bows. In the end though, the ultimate quest is cast and that requires both a bow and an arrow.
I've done low 190's with a couple of selfbow but it's usually mid 180's. Not too hard to do low 190's with a backed bow. All this of course with 10GPP on a 28" draw
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For me so far there is a big difference between backed(Bamboo or Maple) and self bows. The best I've managed with a backed bow is 193FPS@10gpp. The best I've gotten with a selfbow is in the high 170's. I'd be interested in what others have gotten with selfbows. I don't think they should be compared to one another.
The 10gpp is arbitrary but it does eliminate a variable when comparing bows. In the end though, the ultimate quest is cast and that requires both a bow and an arrow.
I've done low 190's with a couple of selfbow but it's usually mid 180's. Not too hard to do low 190's with a backed bow. All this of course with 10GPP on a 28" draw
I've got some work ahead of me then ;D ;D
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Mid 180 with self bows that's incredible. I got a long way to go.
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Several years ago I posted an experimental bow on here. My idea was to try and incorporate all the things into a bow that make it fast and then try to figure out how to best mitigate the issues that extreme designs create. I decided on a reflex deflex with huge rounded recurves with the tips about 12" behind the back of the bow. A design like this would normally be very unstable as it would have an unusually large amount of string contact with the limbs and very low string angles for most of the limb as well. My remedy for the lack of stability was to use a very small working limb section just outside the fades. That put a lot of strain on a very small area so I had to make it about 4" wide.
I knew the bow would break down fairy quickly but I just wanted to see if I could get a few shots off before it broke down. I only tillered it out to about 22" and extrapolated to weight to be about 50#. I hooked it up to my shooting machine with a scale inline and started shooting. The first shot right at 50# shooting a 500 grain arrow hit 212 and started dropping in speed and weight with each shot. After about 10 shits it had leveled off at about 38# and hitting 157 fps with a 500 grain arrow.
On the first shot it had stored about 125% of energy in relation to peak draw force. The last several inches of draw had a slight let off with no weight gain. Some of that was because of the geometry of the bow and some of it was most likely due to the bow taking set as I drew it further.
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So was this almost a Turkish horn bow made of wood?
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Maybe a engineer could assist me . 470 gr. arrow 230 yds from a 50# selfbow at 28”. I don’t live and die by chrono.
I'm really hoping someone will be able to answer this. That's an astounding shot.
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So was this almost a Turkish horn bow made of wood?
There were a lot of similarities but the hooks were larger and rounder. Most of the Turkish bows I have tested seem to run about the same speed through the chrono as the top wood laminate bows do. I have never tested one to hit over 184 with 10 grains but have seen reports from accurate sources that were a bit faster.
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Maybe a engineer could assist me . 470 gr. arrow 230 yds from a 50# selfbow at 28”. I don’t live and die by chrono.
I'm really hoping someone will be able to answer this. That's an astounding shot.
The chrono will tell you more about the bow, the distance you shoot is about the bow, the arrow and the shooter, how clean it comes out has a lot to do with it. I have hit 242 with a self bow and 252 with a backed bow but not official and only official really counts. An arrow that comes out clean right from the start can add a lot of yardage.
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Thanks Steve we will see how it does in about a week. I think my shoulder and pinched nerve are on the mend. At least I hope so. CBD cream seamed to help a lot . See ya at Wendover. I am at Smith Creek now. Arvin