Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Finn_the_archer on September 25, 2006, 04:29:53 pm
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Hello fellow archers, I'm new to bowmaking and need a tillering stick. Are there any instructions out there on how to make one myself?
Thanks
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Finn, Better than a tiller stick is a tiller tree. Mine is a 2x4 mounted to a wall with a 2x4block at the top to rest the bow handle on and a pulley at the bottom. A 10' piece of rope runs through the pulley and attaches to the bow string with an "s" hook. This is with the bow's handle resting on the smaller 2x4block. Now you can stand back a few feet, pull the rope and watch your bow bend. From this distance, you can really see any problems when they arrise.
A tiller stick can be very dangerous to work with. I have heard of them being launched and sticking in the ceiling. With the tiller tree you can pull your bow and look without stressing the limbs, also. Pat
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I use a stick until I get the bow bending to the point where I can brace it. I've been told that there is no damage to the bow, in bending it to the braced position. After all, you leave the bow braced for hours right?
Use a 1x2 of some hardwood, about 30" long. Notch it every inch starting about 6" from the end. Notches should be at least 0.5" in, up to an inch. And angled enough so the string won't slip out (30 degrees). You'll need quite a few notches, maybe a dozen. Not that you are going to be bending the bow that far, but a long string stretches sometimes and you might need the extra notches to get the bow bending the 6" or so that will get you to a braceable state. Also, put a big notch in the end so the handle will stay in position, basically a smaller square cut in the end.
Hope this helps, if you need a pic I can see about posting one tonight but you probably get the idea.
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The big advantage I have with a tiller stick over a tiller tree for early judging, is in being able to run a straightedge (credit card or similar object) along the belly of the bow while its on the tiller stick. I can judge stiff spots this way, much better than I can see those every small differences on the tree at this point in the game. I think a tree is still good for the later stages of tillering, when you have a significant amount of bend going and really want to stand back and look at that bend. But when a bow is pulling only 3-6", it is much easier to do what I'm suggesting.
When I put a bow on the tiller stick, I put the bow on a piece of carpet (belly up) and string it, holding the upper end of the stick with my stomach. I use a tilllering string just barely long enough to get on the bow.
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Thanks for your replies!
So basically, it's a good idea to first pull the bow to bracing position on a tillering stick, and then as next step pull it to full draw on a tilering tree?
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That is what I've been taught. Others have a different opinion. I've never had a problem with set showing up while using the tiller stick during those first 6 or so inches of getting tips to move. The set tends to show up when I go to the short string.
If I see a bad place, I generally let it down and fix it right away. In fact I generally look down the sides of the limbs and get the thickness about even down the length as a first step, before I even bother with the stick.
As far as not pulling past intended draw weight, I don't worry about that at the tillering stick stage. You can't tell what the poundage is with a long string anyway, so I just pull it far enough to measure any imperfections, and when things get pretty smooth I pull the string pretty tight, and farther and farther up the stick, until I get it to whee the tips are at a place that is equivalent to a brace height. I also measure the distance of each tip from the floor, so I know the two limbs are relatively balanced. You don't want one tip bending 6" and the other only 5".
That is how I'm doing it these days. I don't even go to a tillering tree after I get it strung. I jut pull it and look at the bends that way. But a tillering tree is good for the later stages and I recommend one.
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For the tillering stick, cut a saddle on the top end wide and deep enough for your bow to set belly down. Slotted grooves should be angled away from this saddle. Typically I first floor tiller the bow which involves placing one tip of the bow on the ground while holding your handle with your right hand, and the top limb tip with your left hand. Have the bow running alongside your leg, and then rotate your hips to flex each limb. You should be able to locate stiff area's with this technique. Next we use the tillering stick to get the bow to brace height using the straight edge on the belly to locate flat area's as already described. Be careful not to remove to much material using the tillering stick. I have gone to the tillering tree to find I had taken off to much material and the bow didn't make weight. Just as soon as you can get a string braced to the bow and the limbs are close to even, I'd suggest going to the tillering tree with a bow scale in ling.
Using a tillering tree, we place a bow scale inline (it hooks to the bow string), then tie your rope to the scale and down through the pulley and finally to the handle. This way you can not only watch your limbs flex, but can also keep track of your bow weight. Never ever draw the bow past what you want your finished weight to be!
Hope this is helpful!
Friend of "Pappy's"
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Greg, I have been coming in at around 50-55lb on my bows automatically with the way I'm employing the tiller stick. I think it might have to do with how much pull you have to give the bow to get it hooked onto the stick. Gets kinda scary to pull really hard. So I can see where it would be easy to come in under wweight, especially if you are shooting for 60+lb.
I've never really gotten the hang of floor tillering to any great extent. I use it to know when the bow is starting to at least bend, but I've never been able to do much actual tiller-judging with the method. And I can as easily tell when the limbs are close, by the way they bend under the weight of my rasping.
So you're a friend of pappy's? We won't hold that against you. hehe
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The last and only tillering stick broke while the bow was at full draw. The bow conked me on the head. I actually saw stars. My set up is pictured on my site. See Bow Making Directions. My judging of tiller is done far way from the action. I'd write more on the advantages of a rope and pulley but ....Jawge
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'Bout time you came around to rebutting me on the tiller stick! I've been setting out bait and waiting, and waiting.
I've never said it was the SAFEST way to tiller. Or that I was the SHARPEST knife in the drawer. But until I can get a string on my bow, I can't really use a tree and keep the bow bent while I measure the bend. And my eyes play tricks on me when I try to do things visually at that point in the game.
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I never use a tillering stick to full draw,I use to but always got a lot more set.I just use it till I get
the bow to brace,then go to the rope and pully system.I don't use a long string thow.I use a tillering string that I can ajust and brace it a about 4 in. and go from there.Everyone has ther own way but this works for me.
Pappy
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Pappy as you know I'm just giving the "Gary Davis Method" a little publicity. He told me last time I saw him, that it was some kind of "internet thing" that was giving tillering sticks a bad name.
My long string, is just a real thick linen string with a loop and an end for a timber hitch. No fancy leather cups or anything. Though sometimes I wish I could bend a bow before cutting nocks, I hate that chore.
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LOL, Tom Sawyer, I'm so predictable. If used properly the tillering stick has its place......:)Jawge
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....and it's place is in the fire place I'll probably be berated for my stand by certain prominent members of this site but I don't care. Won't be the first time. :) Jawge
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You know how oppions are Jawge,I say take what you here and read and try all the methods and see what works best for yourself.
Pappy
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Whew, for a minute I thought you weren't going to tell us how you really felt Jawge!
What prominent members of this site advocate tillering sticks anyway?
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Agreed, Pappy. Beginners just wear safety glasses and helmet. :) Jawge
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TS, they know who they are. :) Jawge
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After two near misses when a bow came apart on the tillering stick (as beginners often have happen) I have switched to the tillering tree method that Jawge advocates and have not had an incident since....I mean I have had bows break but I have been safely outta the way. Danny Wakolbinger once posted a sort of bow press he uses to tiller with before the tree...does anyone remember that and does anyone use that device???
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Here are some pictures of or tillering stick and pulley and cable set up.We make the board out of Hickory cut out of what we can't use for bows.Greg made about 10 of these a few weeks ago.
Pappy
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I like the lined board behind the tree. I want to get mine set back up, using some pegboard behind with lines drawn on it. Maybe some "ideal" curves as well.
Gary Davis' tiller stick are all made of scraps of osage. The one I have now is crumby old pine, it bends slightly when I have a bow on it. Probably need to upgrade to a hardwood.
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" Probably need to upgrade to a hardwood."
Please do. :) Jawge
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Yes we have some made out of Osage also,I had some out of a pine 2x4 and after quite a bit of use it ripped some of the slots off so we went to Osage and Hickory and made sure we cut the cross grain.Jawgs you really just don't like tillering sticks at all do you.
Pappy
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Pappy mine's a 2x2. The skinnier hardwood ones, are easier to get the string in and out of the grooves.
Jawge is just looking out for me. In fact, since he's someone who's requently advising newbies who are usually working on less than optimal stuff (or just plain junk and I don't understand that since jawge tells how to select a decent board), I can understand the advice to avoid the tillering stick. Having a bow fail at that early stage, is just something I don't have happen since I don't work on questionable boards. Life's too short to make tomato stakes the hard way.
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Me to,It's been a while since I had one fail in the early stage.If the wood is in queston
I cook Brats with it,you got to have fire wood to.
Pappy
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Do you guys put anything in the groove for the handle. I tried using a tillering board "once". It kept slipping back and forth on the handle while I was trying to put tension on the string. I would like to try it one more time to get to brace height but not if I'm going to get a knot on my head. I cant figure this out so you know I cant afford another blow to the head. :P Justin
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Stick a sock in it Justin.
No really, I will sometimes use a sock to take up space if there is any.
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Tom Sawyer, thanks Ill try it. Justin
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I just have some pieces of leather cut in 4 or 5 in. strips a couple of inches wide I use in the handle grove.That seem to work well.I make most of my handles about the same size so the stick I use fits pretty snug.I have some cut bigger and smaller if I need them.
Pappy
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Nope. I hate them since I got bopped on the head. Jawge
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I used to use only a tillering tree until I gave up trying to shave out flat spots over my head and watching the bow rock back and forth...talk about making me wince. It was either that or scribbling with a pencil on the flat spots, taking if off, making sure it was seated correctly putting back on the tree...repeat, repeat, repeat... Therefore, I made a tillering stick and use it to get the initial 'rough spots' out prior to tree mounting...I put a thick folded up rag in my bench vice, put the handle of the bow in and put decent pressure on it, then I use the stick over the handle and pull up with a long string. I cheat in that the stick is kind of held in place with some machinist wire coming from a ammo-box storage compartment that is on the wall over my vice...and it kind of suspends itself over the handle before pressure is applied. This way the bow is secured, I can rasp, plane or scrape away with decent pressure and get the limbs bending evenly...my shoulders are most thankful. Cheers, P1.
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Can you get a pic of your setup?
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This thread is just bringing up too many memories from my early days. Memories of broken sticks, flying wood and seeing stars. Please so take the proper safety precautions. :) Jawge
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Tom S., are you a mind reader? I just bought some 400 speed film for my 35mm. My plan is to shoot my work area and post in the near future. Getting ready for some camping and fly-fishing this weekend so it will be a couple of weeks but that is the plan. What's also nice is that my 'hot box' is actually part of my work bench, it resides under it for additional space savings. BTW, George is so right in his worry over injury, though I've been lucky, I've had the sense to make additional parts/pieces to ensure safety; which is why I use the vice/tillering stick method now for rough wood removal. I've only had one near miss in my history (been lucky); last year where my string slipped off a nock on a sinew backed, 60"/60# osage, pyramid style flatbow and the tip came whistling by my face...puts sweat on the head and the pearls quickly back into the oyster if you get my meaning...not a good feeling and left me thanking God for his love. Cheers, P1.
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Thank you for your advices - here's the result:
http://primitivabagar.se/components/com_joomlaboard/uploaded/images/PA160001b.JPG
Since I'm confined to use hand tools, it's not a beuty. But I hope it will work well
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Looks very sturdy, which is a primary concern. Nice job.
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Thanks, it's a piece of ash, 4" x 1.6" and 40" long. Just needs a coat of varnish. I'll try make a tillering tree as well, but first I need to find a decent block
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There's no smiley face of a Jawge biting his tongue. Let's see. :-* Jawge
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That looks great,it should work fine.
Pappy
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I'm new to the site and new to bow building also. Here's a pic of my Tillering Stick. I used hardwood pegs 3/8" rather than cut notches. The notch in the top is to secure the Bow. The first peg is set at 6" There is a standard for AMO and it says that: it's 1 3/4" from the deepest part of the handle. So as you look at this, the first peg 6" is 6" from the top of the stick, and not the notch.
Later I varnished the whole thing so it would not warp. This stick is free standing so I can move it into the patio when the weather is nice, or anywhere there is good light. The credit for this design goes to Sam Harper. His site "How to build Bow and stuff" really inspired me to try it also. His building Alongs will help anyone interested in Bow Building.
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I think it looks good and should work fine. I made mine out of 1x oak and use the notch system. I had thought about doing what you've done with yours, but in the end settled for what I have now.
Good luck and welcome to PA! :)
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My trusty 10-minute tiller :)
(http://kviljo.no/bue/nydam.jpg)
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I built a tillering stick type arrangement into my tillering tree, just a bunch of holes and a movable peg. I floor tiller, use the long string with the movable peg as well as the short string and the movable peg to about 20" of draw. I don't have any string follow issues in my bows because I don't leave the string on the peg for more than a few seconds.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/bow%20making/tilleringtotheshortstring5.jpg)
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Hey Eric my tiller tree looks exactly like that.