Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: Mesophilic on September 07, 2019, 01:04:44 am
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Sorry if this has come up before, but I did try the search function to no avail.
I have an Arrow-fix tool already and have used it mostly to repair wood arrows that break just behid glue on field points. This is a two part question.
1) is the joint made with the arrow-fix strong enough to glue up foreshafts of dissimilar woods? Example: could I safely do say a 6 inch foreshaft of a harder wood like hickory to a softer wood like douglas fir?
2) how far down the shaft would you trust the joint produced by the tool? I'm concerned about the joint not holding and getting a shaft through my hand or forearm. I personally don't trust the joint enough to take two broken shafts, spliced in the middle to make a serviceable shaft, with the jojnt bing in the high stress areas, but maybe I'm over thinking it?
I love everything about douglas fir except fixing them when I hit a rock and it brakes off just behind the point. So I'm thinking that the next batch I would like try something a little tougher behind the point. I really don't want the added weight of a tougher wood, and don't have the tools to do properly footed shafts.
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I'm not familiar with that "fixer" but if it is a taper fitted into a tapered socket then yes, it will work with dissimilar woods. I have arrows that Art Butner made for me that are cane with maple foreshafts that are very strong. Not sure what glue Art used, maybe super glue, maybe TBIII but they are very strong. I don't think I'd use it near the center of the shaft because that is where most of the bend is when the arrow is shot but the forward 6" or so should be fine.
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I'm not familiar with that "fixer" but if it is a taper fitted into a tapered socket then yes, it will work with dissimilar woods. I have arrows that Art Butner made for me that are cane with maple foreshafts that are very strong. Not sure what glue Art used, maybe super glue, maybe TBIII but they are very strong. I don't think I'd use it near the center of the shaft because that is where most of the bend is when the arrow is shot but the forward 6" or so should be fine.
It is a tapered socket type joint. Thanks, this was the info I was looking for. I'll most likely use West Systems G Flex epoxy.
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A glue that doesn't cure instantly is probably a good idea so you can be sure everything lines up.
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I had problems using the two part epoxy on my foots. A hard hit on a rock would break the bond of the epoxy. That was on the wing type foot though. Never tried the epoxy on the socket type. For the socket type foot I used the thin super glue. It takes heat well for re-aligning if need be. For the two of four wing foot I like the polyurethane glue like the Gorilla Grip glue. It'll take a lot of heat if re-aligning is needed.
Just me, but I like to keep the joint at least no further that the back of the bow's shelf when drawn for safety's sake...…….Art
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I had problems using the two part epoxy on my foots. A hard hit on a rock would break the bond of the epoxy. That was on the wing type foot though. Never tried the epoxy on the socket type. For the socket type foot I used the thin super glue. It takes heat well for re-aligning if need be. For the two of four wing foot I like the polyurethane glue like the Gorilla Grip glue. It'll take a lot of heat if re-aligning is needed.
Just me, but I like to keep the joint at least no further that the back of the bow's shelf when drawn for safety's sake...…….Art
Do you recall whay type of epoxy you used?
I'm thinking I may go ahead and try several different glue types and do a destruction test.
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...and that's from the horse's mouth. :OK Hey Art. Glad to see you here. 8)
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Great to see you as well Pat!
I used the Devcon 30 min epoxy. Yeah, always do a strength test.
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What is the brand name for your tool, Arrow-fix? Thanks
Hawkdancer
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Jerry, one company that made them was called "reparrow" or something ;like that. 3Rivers used to carry them.
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Wow! Glad to see you still kicking, Art! Your input on arrow making would be greatly appreciated by all.
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How are you Eddie? Hey, not kicking much of anything these days! And I hear it only gets worse......…….Art
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wow! I've read a lot of your stuff given to me by Pat B and dang your good!
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What is the brand name for your tool, Arrow-fix? Thanks
Hawkdancer
Its literally called "Arrow-fix". Made by a German company and carried by 3 Rivers. Kind of pricey but has already paid for itself fixing wooden shafts for me.
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looks like a pencil sharpener.
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looks like a pencil sharpener.
To do the socket cut, you chuck the whole unit in a drill, and the whole thing spins as you push the shaft into the cutting bit.. Then it has two pencil sharpener type cutters on the other end for tapering points or nocks.
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I checked out the Arrow-fix video and it's looks like a really nice tool. If I was still making arrows I believe I'd invest in one. I've repaired hundreds upon hundreds of arrows over the years doing it the old fashion way using your typical two-winged foot. IMO, you're better off to go ahead and affix a hardwood foot on soft wood shafts when first building your arrows...….Art
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An arrow fix is a nice tool.
The disadvantage is that the adhesive surface is quite small and the bonding has to be done with epoxy.
It is very good to repair arrows if the point breaks off. Foreshafting longer as 4 inch, I wouldn't do with the tool.
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The price tag is scarey! Probably worth the investment for a younger person, though. I think I will learn the old way first. What is the safe and practical length for a footer? And how does it affect spine? Thanks,
Hawkdancer
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Link = http://arrow-fix.com/
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I cant find the price, can someone tell me?
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I cant find the price, can someone tell me?
On 3 Rivers site it's $179.99, though I bought mine a number of years ago and I think it was closer to $150 and came with inserts for 3 different shaft diameters.
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:o :o :o (A)
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they are an excellent tool, they make a great " poor mans footing"
their literature purports to not even change the spine of the shaft, if repaired right in the middle.
i think the joint is an extremely strong joint, i have fixed shafts before by doing a simple 8:1 scarfe joint just behind the point , and they have held up for another pile of stumping again.
the beauty about the reparrow joint, being basically the same as the taper for fitting into your point, is that if it does fail, due to the direction of the joint, ands if the shafts splits out footing, it will probably only happen when hitting a very hard object.
I really would not anticipate an issue when releasing the arrow- and if something did happen the shards would be facing backwards- and not forwards into your bow hand.
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Per instructions, Arrow-fix cuts the socket pointing toward the the nock end. While Reparrow cuts the socket n the foreshaft pointing toward the point end.
Does either method make much of a difference on safety and impact strength?
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personally, i have only looked at the reparrow. and i prefer the main shaft being tapered the same direction as the taper for the point.
If there was a failure- i think that would be safer.
but surely it cant make a difference with either tool, each piece being the same , for all intents and purposes.
Just my 0.02c
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Any sort of break down range is no problem! Any break before the arrow clears the bow is real trouble! I would think you can cut either way with either too, it depends on which piece you taper, and which piece you socket! The tool doesn't care! But I am no great arrow maker.
Hawkdancer
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I wouldn't bother with those tools. Sure it may be strong enough but.....a 4 inch scarf joint is much stronger and can be done with a very simple jig and a sharp fine toothed handsaw. It will take you less than 5 minutes to foot a shaft like this.
Mount a block of wood 2x2x6 inches or so on a board for stability.
Drill a hole, shaft diameter, through it along the length.
Mark out a line that will travel 4 inches along the length of the hole. Make a cut along that line, deep enough to just go through the hole.
Now push your shaft through the hole. Cut the shaft using the initial cut in the 2x2 as a guide. You will get a nice neat cut along the shaft.
Do the same with your footing material.
Now simply glue them up using something slow setting. Use a thin strip of innertube or a good strong elastic band to wrap the joint until the glue is set.
This is the method I would use to foot a shaft with hardwood if I didn't want to do a traditional 2, 3, or 4 footed splice. Of course it also works very well to fix shafts. It can be used on any part of the shaft for a fix.
The quick setting epoxies are junk always use the slow setting 24 hour stuff if you are just getting small tubes. TB3 will work well.
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Sounds like a simple rig, but we "geniuses" are always overthinking the problem! (lol). Got any pics of your jig? Thanks.
Hawkdancer