Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: Eric Krewson on November 19, 2019, 07:49:24 am
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Alabama passed a law this year allowing hunting over feeders. I suspect they have proliferated in my neighborhood, last year my neighbor put one down in the hollow about 150 yards from my little 4 acres. Before the feeder my place was a natural travel path for the local herd. After he put the feeder out my deer sightings dropped by 90%.
With the new law I suspect there are feeders behind every house that houses hunters in my neck of the woods. So far this year my deer sightings have dropped to very few.
I plant a little food plot about 25 yards square about 75 yards from my house, although it also feeding the deer I have never killed a deer off it or on my property for that matter. I keep an electric fence around the plot until it gets lush with growth. In the past when I take the electric fence down the deer are in it mowing it down that day. I have had the fence down for 2 weeks and have only seen two fawns in it on a regular basis. The wheat still looks almost untouched, in the past it would be down to bare ground in a few weeks.
I guess the deer like corn better. Rest assured, I will never put a feeder up on my place because I don't consider shooting a deer under a feeder fair chase hunting.
Having had 19 years of watching the deer patterns and natural movement on my place, I find this move to baiting and the disruption of everything I held dear as a hunter, scouting, patterning and watching the rut unfold disappear because of piles of corn depressing.
OK I will get off my soap box. I am 72 and came up through the deer hunting ranks actually learning to HUNT deer and am pretty good at it.
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Eric,,they can cause a problem,, I grew up in texas and lots of feeders there,,
I hunted in Alabama too,, and we hunted acorn trees, with success
same in Tenn,, a good white oak could produce some deer for the freezer,,
I hunted a place in texas and put corn out in the middle of the property to keep the deer moving into the place,,
and hunted trails coming into the place,, without havin to hunt the feeder,, I like to shoot at them where they dont think I gonna be,,,, (SH) Im sure they gonna come to the food plot at some time,, best to you and your hunting,,
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I wonder if your neighbor is on another website griping about your food plot changing his hunting for years and how he finally got the upper hand?
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I get it, Eric. I felt the same way when Wyoming legalized crossbows during archery season...
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Don't know much about whitetail habits, but I think the feeders will have detrimental results on the deer herd as they grow more dependent on the feeder. Baiting is not allowed in Colorado. We just had an incident involving a "domesticated" mule deer buck actually attacking people who didn't feed it. What happens when the feeder is empty?
Hawkdancer
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My wife has a deer feeder set up in our front yard, i.e., her roses, daises and other greenery. It drives her crazy as she has yet to learn that you don't fight nature, you adapt and live with it. But, on the good side, he 'deer conflict' is what is making her happy with me getting back into archery. Too bad she also doesn't understand why I can't shoot the deer in our front yard of a residential neighborhood. Baby steps.
I'm sorry the pattern changed for you. I love watching the deer in our yard, much to the chagrin of my wife.
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Eric, it is illegal to bait in the state of Pa. except in spec reg areas, usually biggest city areas to try and control populations, I also work part time for boundary surveyor and you can't believe how many corn piles I have found on private property while surveying. Most of these places are posted No Trespassing, always wondered what they were hiding, Mystery solved. I don't like baiting and we now have CWD in Pa. and baiting and disease go hand in hand. There is my rant for today. Bob
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Food plots will move CWD around as fast as any feeder will. It can spread through anything and everything that comes out of a deer's body. Urine, saliva, feces, sweat, and snot. Short answer, it spreads like wildfire no matter where they feed or how they feed or bed up. The oldest and worst area is out west where most animals never see a crop or bait pile. Its been found in the US, Canada and two other countries since the 1960s.
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I personally detest the idea of feeders and I'm glad NM doesn't allow baiting of any kind with a certain exception to quail on private property.
I knew guys in OH who put in a feeder and game cams. Then marked off the yardage from their tree stands with flags so there wouldn't be any guesswork with their wheel bow's sights. They knww exactly what time the deer came in and from what approach. This isn't hunting.
They'd try to poke fun at my stick bow and wooden arrows, but I'd poke back at their skills as a real hunters and issue a challenge to give up all their high tech gadgets and come with me to public land to do some real hunting. That usually shut them up pretty quick. I'd also throw out the term "harvesting" alot, as I refused to acknowledge them as hunters. Needless to say I got blacklisted.
I get it, for the more destitute families that need the meat, but I have yet to personally rub shoulders with someone who can afford all this gadgetry and still fall in to the destitute category.
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Like many debatable topics, there are always exceptions and things that will make you think. A few scenarios that are true:
My uncle was dying from cancer and had one more season to hunt, barely, he had to drive his car down a fence row and roll his window down. Baiting gave him a chance to actually have a chance. It never happened and he died 2 months later.
My friend had ALS take over his body and he had all he could do to stumble to a tree and sit against it, scouting and tip toeing wasn't happening. I had to dress him. We put bait down for him to have his one more season before he passed. It didn't work out either and he passed 3 months later.
Sometimes we either have to expand our minds naturally, or, have enough crap happen in our life that our mind expands on its own.
Like cross guns, baiting isn't cut and dry and if I hear its for lazy people one more time I will lose my shred of patience I carry from day to day. Either of the MEN I mentioned above would hunt circles around most of us when healthy.
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Maybe you should need to apply for a baiting permit. like a hunting permit except you don't just pay for a permit but you send them the reason why you need to bait, they check it out. if its legit it would allow a person a last hunt, it would give a person disabled in the right way a chance. and it would hopefully take the bad apples out of the bunch so instead of people thinking its for lazy people (and pearly proved this) because not all are, people will think a bit more positively about it because its helping the people that need it.
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They handled cross guns in Michigan that way for years, now its open to all during archery season. Personally? I don't care two rips what anybody uses or does within the laws of their state. Good hunters adjust and over come. Simple as that.
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Like cross guns, baiting isn't cut and dry and if I hear its for lazy people one more time I will lose my shred of patience I carry from day to day. Either of the MEN I mentioned above would hunt circles around most of us when healthy.
I don't think anyone would gripe against tools and technology assisting in the situations you mentioned and many others who have difficulties. I would even go so far as extend the these aids to children and new hunters to make their fisrt experiences memorable and help them learn to control their minds and bodies for ethical hunting.
I think the basis of discontent is how these feeders are changing the sporting nature of hunting by people of sound mind and able body who just don't want to actually hunt. They want the thrill of the kill, meat in the freezer, but at a minimal effort cost and a nonexistent risk of disappointment.
I can respect sportsmen who need the assistance wholeheartedly, but refuse to acknowledge the indolent as hunters or sportsmen.
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Like cross guns, baiting isn't cut and dry and if I hear its for lazy people one more time I will lose my shred of patience I carry from day to day. Either of the MEN I mentioned above would hunt circles around most of us when healthy.
I don't think anyone would gripe against tools and technology assisting in the situations you mentioned and many others who have difficulties. I would even go so far as extend the these aids to children and new hunters to make their fisrt experiences memorable and help them learn to control their minds and bodies for ethical hunting.
I think the basis of discontent is how these feeders are changing the sporting nature of hunting by people of sound mind and able body who just don't want to actually hunt. They want the thrill of the kill, meat in the freezer, but at a minimal effort cost and a nonexistent risk of disappointment.
I can respect sportsmen who need the assistance wholeheartedly, but refuse to acknowledge the indolent as hunters or sportsmen.
I understand where your coming from but also try to keep an open mind. For me hunting is first trying to get food, second to be out in nature and enjoy it with my family, third to be more connected with the animal i eat. Compound an high tech bows aren't bad, I would say their very good. Compared to a traditional bow i would go as far to say (differing for the hunter) they are more ethical. one because if you have a hunter that doesn't want to put the hours upon hours of shooting he probably shouldn't be hunting with a bow but we cant stop him. The compound will be easier to aim for him making it more likely for a clean shot. it also delivers more penetration power which will make a cleaner kill and if the broad head isn't as sharp as probably we as traditional hunters would like (just under shaving sharp) it will still be sure to kill the animal quickly with a good shot.
Now traditional hunters normally put tons of hours into this allowing them to take a shot that they know that they can make and one that will be ethical.
Same with the markers. They probably want to make sure they don't hit high or low. anyone could put markers by their stand, baited or not, to make sure to get a better shot.
Then baiting. This one is more flexible. i dont know their incentives but best case scenario they may depend on that meat. I know they could just buy it but you know how much roasts and steaks and good cuts of meat are. if you didnt spend your money on burgers or steaks (if you normally and got them for gatherings or family) you could do a lot more little things with your family even if its the little things like taking them out for ice cream. This is the best case scenario for me an i want to give those guys the benefit of the doubt.
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I like that quote about never getting it wrong,, nice,,
I grew up deer hunting in Texas,, 50 something years ago,,, I shot my first deer,, with a rifle,,
I think there was corn out,, I didnt have a clue if that was right or wrong,, thats just the way they did it,,
I hunt with a wood bow I made,, and have to say have taken game in states where there is not baiting, and deer hunting was about the same,, and never even worried about it,,
I shot my first deer with a bow in Texas,,sitting in a tree with no stand watching a trail,,
I am not going to judge anyone for hunting a feeder if thats what they want to do,,a food plot or acorn tree is a much better option most the time, in my opinion,,
I live in New Mexico for 20 years now,, and when I draw a tag,, I enjoy the hunt,,
I guess since I grew up with feeders being the norm,,, I know I have the option to hunt any way that I like,,
I could even hunt with a rifle if I wanted,, I am just having fun shooting my wood bow,,
If feeders are having a negative imact on the environment or game,, then that should be take into consideration,,
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not terribly critical of the weapon used to take game as long as it is a legal method. I'm just harsh on the the whole idea of feeders and cameras.
At least with a food plot, they're subject to nature somewhat; germination, bugs, time of season, other critters, water, etc. There won't necessarily be food distributed every moning at a predetermined time.
How can one call it hunting when my "hunt" starts by me checking an app on my smartphone to see what buck has been showing up to my feeder and at what times? Why not just set up a remote control weapon system and you could shoot your deer from the comfort of your office cubicle with a click on a smartphone app?
We all have things to do, work, family, etc...so game cams aren't even a sore spot for me by themselves. Were we primative we'd be keeping track through more primative means. But we're not, and many of us can't spend the hours in the bush needed to do this. It's the combination of technologies that take the sport out of it, but whatever makes people happy I guess...
ETA: why not just pass a law to drug the animals? They'll be waiting when the "hunter" arrives at his convenience and it will be the ultimate in humane harvesting as the animal won't feel pain or fear.
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yes I think it would be hard to call that hunting,,
I call it hunting when I hike in the mountain,, and dont get anything,, I still feel like I am hunting,,
I love to be outside and hunting,,, even when I dont get anything,,
I hope to get lucky next year,, and draw a tag,,,
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Make it easy and they will come. Bob
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I guess the problem with feeders is that it makes a lot of people feel like they've got to use one as well.
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Im so old and grumpy ,, its hard to make me feel like I need to do anything I dont want to do,,, (--)
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I live in a subdivision where everyone has about 5 acres, some lots are open land, on my street and the next one our land drops down into what I call the "grand canyon". Many of the neighbors have privacy fences around their yards and could care less about deer movement. The guys that hunt are all in nice hunting clubs but will shoot a deer out the back door if the freezer is getting low.
The grand canyon;
(https://i.imgur.com/4HSo3Jz.jpg)
The deer movement down the hollow has remained unchanged for the ten years I lived here before I made the postage stamp sized food plot and after. It is a natural deer travel path between the 100s of acres of woods and fields 1/2 mile to my south and the 200 acres of fields and hardwoods woods that adjoin my land to the north. Then came the feeders.
My plot has no effect on the deer, my neighbor to the north has about 30 acres of fields alongside his driveway and down by his barn. I can see about 20 deer in his fields after dark any time I drive down his half mile long driveway.
I have a 3 acre vacant lot alongside my driveway with a virgin timber white oak fence line down the middle, the deer like this place much more than my place. I mow it like it is my own to keep it from becoming overgrown. It is covered with centipede grass that the deer love, they congregate there every evening and night. I can hunt it but it but haven't so far.
I put my camera on a tree facing the 3 acres to see what was showing up, they hit the oaks in the winter but don't feed in the field as much because the grass is like zoysa and turns brown in the winter. Here is a typical evening dinner party on the 3 acre vacant lot, the oak patch is in the background.
(https://i.imgur.com/wvfsd8a.jpg)
So far the only one to take a shot out of my ladder stand is a 77 year old great friend who has health issues that have slowed him down a bit. He has just recovered from a badly broken neck that he sustained when a woman ran a stop sign and T boned him, this caused him him a year of misery, he is being treated for prostate cancer as well. I asked him to come over and shoot a deer off my plot if he could, I would much rather him get a deer on my place than me. He missed one with his crossbow but I would invite him back in a heartbeat and have. It would have been a chip shot getting him a deer before the feeders turned on.
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Another thing or two, I have a trail cam but only use it for monitoring deer around my house to see what is eating my flower beds and garden but don't use it where I hunt, I hunt mostly on my neighbors land. I do have it up on my food plot right now to see if any deer are on the plot in the early morning so my buddy can take crack at them, he is strictly a morning hunter, I only hunt evenings.
I have developed a thing I call archers neck from 65 years behind a bow, I am 72 now. I can shoot a light bow a few times but not enough to feel good about taking a shot at a deer, I didn't bow hunt this year for the first time in my hunting career.
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I had a friend ,,,his bow got too heavy..he had been a great shot,,,he said he could only pull it one time,..I put him in stand by the creek,,where I had seen deer sign,..that morning he shot a nice buck,,.that was a great morning,..just pulled the bow one time
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I twisted my ankle a month ago, it is still a mess and yes I have been to a dr but can't walk on rough ground like in the woods yet so no hunting so far.
My neighbor told me not to kill any buck on his place I am not going to mount. I am not enamored with deer mounts, never was so it is does only on his place.
I won't put up a trail cam where I plan to hunt but did put one up at the end of his orchard. This is a stretch for my so called "ethics" because I do hunt a 100 yards down the ridge and off in a hollow below his orchard.
This is the top dog of the area, I had him on the orchard cam running off the lesser bucks and chasing does. He is after one in this picture but she is out of the frame.
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On a positive note; I had two does on my little plot yesterday evening and a doe and a button head down there right now (2:30pm), they ate for a while and are bedded next to plot at the present.
Just looked again and there are 3 button heads and 4 does either feeding or passing through the plot.
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Done it all in SC. Old now and have given up on fighting change. I don't have to change but everything in this old world will change. On that you can rely. Enjoy and adapt. Let the young ones fight their fight. I love most kinds of hunting and fishing and try as much of it as I can. Doing out to check a corn block on a trail I have a camera on. Probably won't hunt today but I will see deer on my cameras in my yard and out of town on a family plot. Fun stuff!!!
Hang in there (W
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thats a nice buck, thanks for sharing )P(
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I really try not to put down how anyone hunts. As long as it's legal it's ok with me. I know if we don't all stick together we'll all hang separately. We got more than enough people trying to take our hunting, trapping and fishing rights away from us.
Until this year it was legal to use 2 1/2 gallons of bait in my area. I personally don't like hunting over bait with my selfbow. Not because it's to easy. Because I like hunting the trails to and from the bait better.
Bjrogg
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Never really seen the need in Tennessee, it is illegal in TN. anyway but we have plenty for them to eat, you just have to find it and change as the food source changes. I love finding and hunting white oaks and persimmons early and red oaks and browse later in the year, rutting sign in between. I guess maybe if I hunted public areas it would matter more but am blessed to hunt my own place so I really don't care what anyone else does as long as it legal and they stay off my farm unless invited. ;)
Pappy
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Im so old and grumpy ,, its hard to make me feel like I need to do anything I dont want to do,,, (--)
Yep. ;)
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Pappy, I miss those white oaks in Tenn,,,, I sure did shoot at some deer there,, )P(
Chestnunt oak is good too,, if you find one,,
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I went back and read some of the stuff in this thread, I apparently missed a few comments.
PD, the neighbor with the feeder is a new one, just moved in a year or so ago, he has a farm elsewhere. He and his wife moved in and brought two walker coonhounds with them. The dogs are incessant barkers and have a bark like a fog horn. They would often tree a squirrel and bark for 3 or 4 hours straight, an unbelievable disruption to our usually very quiet neighborhood.
The dogs might tree something at 4:00 in the morning or at at midnight, it was awful, about 5 barks a second between the two of them. After putting up with this nonsense for months I went over to introduce myself and asked for some help on the barking. The guy was a typical redneck, belligerent, defensive and took offence at my coming over. I softened him by being nice and telling him he could hunt my place and food plot any time he wanted to. I could tell by some ground blinds that were put up later that he did hunt on my land so I was offering him and opportunity to expand his hunting possibilities not stifling his.
He didn't have the feeder up when he was hunting my land, I am sure he saw all my deer movement when he hunted my place, then he put up a feeder on his place and quit hunting my land. He is not much of a hunter, his main pastime is sitting around a fire in his backyard, cranking up the country music to an annoying decibel level and downing tallboys.
These folk did admit they had a barking problem, as a former dog trainer I gave them an order blank for the best TriTronic bark collars and offered to pay for one one if they would buy the other. They turned down my offer but did order two collars themselves.
The world changed when the collars came in. All serious rednecks have a "get you back" gene, the guy kept the collars on during the night but turned them off when he went to work so he could get back at me for complaining, being away from home home he didn't have to listen to the racket. Being retired I still had to listen to hound music during the day but I could at least get a nights sleep. This get me back period went on for about 6 months, I didn't go over and complain and he finally left the collars on most of the time.
Before any of you take offense of my use of the term "redneck", let it be known that I am a former redneck ridge runner from the mountains of east tennessee where I grew up. Like they say "it takes one to know one". Fortunately as I aged and matured I moved on past the honky tonk lifestyle to be a more responsible, considerate type of person.
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jeeze... >:(
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Boy, I guess that feeder wouldn't bother me much then, but dog barking does. I would call on him every day until the dogs are gone or the collars stay on 24/7. Some idiots really think that hunting hounds have to be allowed to bark all the time or they wont bark when they are supposed to. My buddy has a kennel full of black and tan beagles, has for years and years. They don't utter a bark until its hunting time. If by chance one pipes up he simply yells, "hey!" and they shut right up. It all starts as puppies.
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Boy, I guess that feeder wouldn't bother me much then, but dog barking does. I would call on him every day until the dogs are gone or the collars stay on 24/7. Some idiots really think that hunting hounds have to be allowed to bark all the time or they wont bark when they are supposed to. My buddy has a kennel full of black and tan beagles, has for years and years. They don't utter a bark until its hunting time. If by chance one pipes up he simply yells, "hey!" and they shut right up. It all starts as puppies.
Yep! I had 6 walkers and they’re hush hush until they strike, then it’s all over with.
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Nothing like dealing with really classy people.
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Them coon Hunter's is as crazy as loons and self bow folks! I can keep up with a miniature dachshund, though! Hope this is an exercise in a bit of tolerance, but I have been on both sides of the problem! Wolfhounds will sing with the coyotes, even in town! Never got to hunt with a beagle that could go into the brambles as well I could! Had an excellent coon hunt on my first time out, we struck 4 hot tracks just after dark and were at the dance hall by 9:30! Got 4 coons! Great evening!
Hawkdancer
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I worked swing shift for 28 years and was a poor sleeper, all my dogs through the years were trained not to bark with a red ryder bb gun. A couple dogs took two shots to the butt from about 40 yards to learn what hush up meant, my last only needed one shot.
Most dogs are easy to train but there is a catch to success, you have to be smarter than the dog. That is why there are so many dogs out there that haven't been trained to do the simplest things, the dogs are smarter than the owners.
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Don’t let it bother you. It won’t take long before the deer know to hit that corn well after dark only. My buddy puts it out to get pics and he will hunt there some too. I’ve known him and hunted with him since 2008, and he’s never shot a buck on a stand over or coming to eat the corn. I look for travel spots 1000 or more yards from any of his corn, and I have had more close opportunities hunting two weeks per year including skipping three years than he’s had living and hunting there all season every season. Old deer are rarely fooled by the big accord pile from what I’ve seen.
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The deer here have disappeared, bow season opened on the 15th, I suspect there are corn feeders humming in almost every backyard of the people in the neighborhood who hunt. I took down the electric fence around my food plot a week ago, last year the deer covered it up within a few hours after I took the fence down.This year not one deer has been feeding in it yet, I had one trail cam picture of a little 6 point walking across the plot but he didn't stop to feed.
I have the ground covered with white oak acorns behind my shop, every year in the past the deer would clean them up as fast as they fell. This year I put my trail cam facing the tree, in 4 or 5 days only one lonely doe walked by the tree, she didn't stop to pick up the first acorn.
They legalized hunting over feeders in Bama last year. If I kill one his year it will be corn fed and fat, perhaps this is a good thing. I live in a neighborhood where almost every house backs up against big woods. My property line backs up against about 200 acres of big hardwood timber, the deer are overpopulated but always wired, they will run from you if they see you 300 yards way.