Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Drawknife on November 23, 2019, 03:55:18 am
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Well I just watched through the whole board bow video series clay put out. Looks like something I can accomplish but I have a few questions. I noticed he made a bend through the handle bow. Any disadvantage to adding a glue on handle after back setting and putting on raw hide backing? I have a couple of raw hide strips from clay lying around my shop so I think I'll try them. How short can these bows go? I only have a 26 inch draw. Also anyone ever added reflex to a board bow before? Risk is reward? Also what are the advantages/disadvantages of going red oak vs maple?
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The challenge associated with gluing on more wood to make a rigid handle is that if the glue you use is not up to the task it can fail when the bow is drawn and the handle can pop off. Whether this happens depends on how much the handle would bend when the bow is drawn and what sort of glue/epoxy you use. I have made a few board bows with rigid handles, and have managed to use Titebond III as the glue and not had problems. These were shorter bows (under 60 inches) and had lower draw weights. If you use a longer curing epoxy of some sort, you would probably be fine. I have never used these, so am not in a good position to make recommendations.
As far as length overall, I have made bows as short as 45 inches from boards and had them turn out well. It is all about choosing the right board, and the right design for that board. I have added both reflex and recurves to boards before, it is just like bending stave wood.
Regarding red oak vs maple, I would say maple is a better wood but finding a maple board with straight enough grain is hard. Maple logs often have twist that you cannot see when the log is cut into boards. This means that you might find a board that looks perfect based on the rings, but blows up when stressed because of all the grain runoff. Red oak is not as snappy, but tends to grow straight and I have had fewer failures with it. If you can find hickory boards, those might be useful too. Hickory also often grows straight, and folks have made amazing bows from hickory boards. If you heat treat it, that will take care of its tendency to absorb moisture and become sluggish in humid air.
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I've written quite a bit on my site about board bows.
http://traditionalarchery101.com
Jawge
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The key to adding a handle is how you taper the fades into the limbs, an abrupt transition will pop off most of the time, a long taper will hold most of the time.
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Yes, and prep the gluing surfaces in accordance to the glue being used.
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If you leave the handle area of the board bow the full 3/4" thick and make the fades on the handle riser long you should be OK. It is generally the bending handle area that causes the riser to pop off. Another option is to use a series of thin lams at graduating lengths for the riser and blend them into long, smooth fades so it will give just a bit which can help the riser from popping off.
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I have had handle add on's pop off with tb3, but never with smooth on even if the fades were a little abrupt.
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I've personally had better luck with glue on handles when I use several thin laminations rather than one big block.
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I've written quite a bit on my site about board bows.
http://traditionalarchery101.com
Jawge
Your site had an incredible amount of info!
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For bow length . . . As general rule of thumb and for stiff-handle bows, I double my draw length and then add 20% to that doubled draw length.
For example, (26 x 2) x 1.2 = 52 x 1.2 = approx 60-62"
Good luck!
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I’ve only made one stiff handled bow so far and it was a 50” red oak 1/2”x 1.5” board with a 8” long 1/4” thick red oak slat glued on with original tight bond. It pulls 30lb at 24” and hasn’t popped the handle off. I did make the fades long and smooth.
As for maple I have only made two bows and they chrysaled due to tillering error.
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drawknife,
I recommend that you take a look at the board bow build along I did but only amend the width to 1 3/8".
I do not recommend handle add ons for beginners. Allow the handle to bend . Do not narrow it and let it be 1 3/8" wide.
Other than that follow the directions on they build along and have fun.
Remember that not every board is bow worthy. Straight grain is the ideal tip to tip. No knots no matter how small.
Jawge
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The key to adding a handle is how you taper the fades into the limbs, an abrupt transition will pop off most of the time, a long taper will hold most of the time.
Nope that is just part of it, it is also very important that the belly lam is thick enough.
Powerlams are the way to go on multilam bows but a simple board bow must be thick enough under the handle section.
IF you design a glue on handle correctly any decent glue works.
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Not so, here is an example of a stave that was only about 1/2" thick in the handle, way to thin in most folks opinion but it could be saved.
(https://i.imgur.com/lVeKU9G.jpg)
I like to make bows out impossible staves and agree a few shims have to be inserted under the main handle but proper feathering and shims will keep a minimal stave together.
Of course there is a bigger issue in keeping a handle on than the wood thickness, tillering into the fades. I transition my limb tillering cautiously into the fade of a bow with a glued on handle, they bend slightly into the first inch or so but no further.
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Questions for those that use shims. Why do you think it helps? Do you think that a glued up pile of shims is more flexible than a solid block of wood? :)
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In my experience yes. I have had a number of solid glue on handles come loose at the transition to the limb, I have never had a shimmed handle come loose. I also got better at bow making about the time I started shiming handles so my apparent success might not be attributable to the shims.
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Do you have a WAG why? I can't understand it unless the glue line has a little "slippage" for lack of a better word. If the glue line works a bit you'd think that would cause it to fail eventually.
The only WAG I can see is that the using of the shims encourages the bowyer to make the fades a little better. The glue lines would show the taper better. Dunno
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I think its more to do with elasticity in the glue joints than "slippage." Each glue layer can stretch a little and each shim can bend a little as the center of the stave pulls away from the handle. The handle can still be "rigid" as all this bending and streching would be imperceptible, but its just enough to spread the stresses throughout multiple glue joints, rather than focusing it on a single glue joint like a solid handle block would.
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I did a glue on handle for my first board bow! i don't suggest it. i look at my scar just..... wait a little bit.
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35312.msg464947.html#msg464947
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Thanks for replies everybody.
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I believe it is glue flexibility as well,the urac I used could take a lot of bending.